Rega Elex-R, Elicit-R or what?

[jonathanRD]

Last Friday I started my journey to upgrade my Rega Brio 2000 amplifier purchased back in 2003. There are so many options but I only want to consider amps I can demo at home, so it made sense to start with my local dealer and listen to the Rega Elex-R, Elicit-R and some obvious alternatives they stocked.

In an attempt to replicate my current setup, we used a Rega Apollo-R cdp and RX3 loudspeakers. I took along a demo disk comprising a few tracks I know well and that cover a variety of music. Starting with the Elex-R I was a little underwhelmed and my immediate thoughts were that the RX3's were not performing as well as my RS5's in my own slightly larger room (4m x 5m). Starting with Joss Stone's 'Free Me', the detail seemed the same, but the bass and scale were missing. It was only when we got to Barbara Streisand singing 'Papa Can You Hear Me' that I started to detect the greater power/scale underpinning the orchestral music.

So we jumped straight to the Elicit-R and added the DAC-R into the chain, it was then that I started to notice the improved clarity especially with Barbara's voice and individual instruments were more easily defined in Saint Saens Finale of Carnival of the Animals. I just don't think the RX3's in that demo room were showing these amps off as well as they might.

Keeping the DAC-R in the chain, I then listened again to the Elex-R, followed by the Arcam A29 and Naim Nait 5Si. The Elex-R was very slightly more engaging/clearer than the Arcam, but I found the Naim a little forward/bright for my tastes - Barbara's high notes were a bit painful (and that was the point of including the track in the demo to see how this sounded on other amps).

At this point I had heard enough to allow me to consider what to demo at home. The dealer then mentioned how impressed they were with the Nytech pre-power setup, and just out of interest we had a quick listen (same source/speakers) to the Nytech CP202 preamp and CPA402 power amp at just under £3k for the pair. Again I suspect the speakers didn't do them justice, but they sounded very nice, and very smooth - the instruments, piano in particular sound much clearer, cleaner and more real (if any of that makes sense?).

I said that I would be back in a week or so to arrange a home demo or two, probably the Elex-R and Elicit-R. I was also open about the fact that I have provisionally arranged with another dealer to demo some Exposure amps - especially the 3010S2D. That other dealer is going to set up the Quad Artera for a listen too. That will be at the limit of my budget, but is interesting as it is a pre-amp with cdp and dac combined, along with the poweramp.

So its early days, but I know that only home demos are going to really show me whether I'm going to be happy with an obvious and smallish upgrade - such as the Elexr-R, or whether to get something I will keep for the next 15 years, I need to go further up the chain, and which 'chain'? I'll update after the next demo.

 

[Compactdisco]

Last Friday I started my journey to upgrade my Rega Brio 2000 amplifier purchased back in 2003. There are so many options but I only want to consider amps I can demo at home, so it made sense to start with my local dealer and listen to the Rega Elex-R, Elicit-R and some obvious alternatives they stocked.

In an attempt to replicate my current setup, we used a Rega Apollo-R cdp and RX3 loudspeakers. I took along a demo disk comprising a few tracks I know well and that cover a variety of music. Starting with the Elex-R I was a little underwhelmed and my immediate thoughts were that the RX3's were not performing as well as my RS5's in my own slightly larger room (4m x 5m). Starting with Joss Stone's 'Free Me', the detail seemed the same, but the bass and scale were missing. It was only when we got to Barbara Streisand singing 'Papa Can You Hear Me' that I started to detect the greater power/scale underpinning the orchestral music.

So we jumped straight to the Elicit-R and added the DAC-R into the chain, it was then that I started to notice the improved clarity especially with Barbara's voice and individual instruments were more easily defined in Saint Saens Finale of Carnival of the Animals. I just don't think the RX3's in that demo room were showing these amps off as well as they might.

Keeping the DAC-R in the chain, I then listened again to the Elex-R, followed by the Arcam A29 and Naim Nait 5Si. The Elex-R was very slightly more engaging/clearer than the Arcam, but I found the Naim a little forward/bright for my tastes - Barbara's high notes were a bit painful (and that was the point of including the track in the demo to see how this sounded on other amps).

At this point I had heard enough to allow me to consider what to demo at home. The dealer then mentioned how impressed they were with the Nytech pre-power setup, and just out of interest we had a quick listen (same source/speakers) to the Nytech CP202 preamp and CPA402 power amp at just under £3k for the pair. Again I suspect the speakers didn't do them justice, but they sounded very nice, and very smooth - the instruments, piano in particular sound much clearer, cleaner and more real (if any of that makes sense?).

I said that I would be back in a week or so to arrange a home demo or two, probably the Elex-R and Elicit-R. I was also open about the fact that I have provisionally arranged with another dealer to demo some Exposure amps - especially the 3010S2D. That other dealer is going to set up the Quad Artera for a listen too. That will be at the limit of my budget, but is interesting as it is a pre-amp with cdp and dac combined, along with the poweramp.

So its early days, but I know that only home demos are going to really show me whether I'm going to be happy with an obvious and smallish upgrade - such as the Elexr-R, or whether to get something I will keep for the next 15 years, I need to go further up the chain, and which 'chain'? I'll update after the next demo.

Was the sonic differences between the Rega Elex-R and the ARCAM FMJ A29 sigificant? I have the A29 amp but never got ghe chance to try the Elex-R. I find the A29 very smooth with layers of detail but at the same time room filling/big sound. I also agree with some reviews that the A29 coukd be polite, smoothing this out. I wonder if the Elex R has the same refined sound as the A29 but with more punch to music (particularly rock).

Thanks

 

[jonathanRD]

Was the sonic differences between the Rega Elex-R and the ARCAM FMJ A29 sigificant? I have the A29 amp but never got ghe chance to try the Elex-R. I find the A29 very smooth with layers of detail but at the same time room filling/big sound. I also agree with some reviews that the A29 coukd be polite, smoothing this out. I wonder if the Elex R has the same refined sound as the A29 but with more punch to music (particularly rock).

Thanks

Based on my brief demo, and accepting the limitations of the demo (room/speakers) - no I did not detect any significant difference between the Elex-R and A29, and I wasn't playing much rock. My immediate reaction when I first heard the A29 was that it sounded less open that the Elex-R. The problem with demos at a dealer is that you can't stay there all day and listen for hours to every single combination. My advice if you can, is to get one on home demo over a weekend, or save up for an A39 *smile*

 

[jonathanRD]

Was the sonic differences between the Rega Elex-R and the ARCAM FMJ A29 sigificant? I have the A29 amp but never got ghe chance to try the Elex-R. I find the A29 very smooth with layers of detail but at the same time room filling/big sound. I also agree with some reviews that the A29 coukd be polite, smoothing this out. I wonder if the Elex R has the same refined sound as the A29 but with more punch to music (particularly rock).

Thanks

Based on my brief demo, and accepting the limitations of the demo (room/speakers) - no I did not detect any significant difference between the Elex-R and A29, and I wasn't playing much rock. My immediate reaction when I first heard the A29 was that it sounded less open that the Elex-R. The problem with demos at a dealer is that you can't stay there all day and listen to a range of music with each combination. My advice if you can, is to get one on home demo over a weekend, or save up for an A39 *smile*

 

[p_m_brown]

I suspect you are right that the RX3s were holding things back somewhat. I heard them a while ago when I was upgrading my speakers and I found them lacking scale and detail. They left me feeling pretty cold actually!

I recently heard the Elicit R and the Naim XS2 and found them to be rather different. In the company of the extremely detailed and sparkly (slightly shrill at times) Naim, the Rega sounds altogether warm and cuddly by comparison! There is a lot more bass warmth, midrange is just as good but it definately lacks the detail, soundstage accuracy and sheer drive of the Naim. The XS2 is probably a fairer comparison to the Elicit and if you find yourself considering amps in this price bracket, also check out the Arcam A39 - the new Arcams are voiced far less politely than their predecessors.

 

[jonathanRD]

I suspect you are right that the RX3s were holding things back somewhat. I heard them a while ago when I was upgrading my speakers and I found them lacking scale and detail. They left me feeling pretty cold actually!

I recently heard the Elicit R and the Naim XS2 and found them to be rather different. In the company of the extremely detailed and sparkly (slightly shrill at times) Naim, the Rega sounds altogether warm and cuddly by comparison! There is a lot more bass warmth, midrange is just as good but it definately lacks the detail, soundstage accuracy and sheer drive of the Naim. The XS2 is probably a fairer comparison to the Elicit and if you find yourself considering amps in this price bracket, also check out the Arcam A39 - the new Arcams are voiced far less politely than their predecessors.

During the demo the A39 was mentioned as an 'altogether different beast', which I took to mean rather good.

 

[CnoEvil]

I also found the Rega speakers a bit underwhelming....I preferred Kef's R500s.

I slightly prefer the Arcam A39 to the Elicit R....but they are in the same ballpark. if available, the Creek 100A should also be on your demo list.

 

[jonathanRD]

I also found the Rega speakers a bit underwhelming....I preferred Kef's R500s.

I slightly prefer the Arcam A39 to the Elicit R....but they are in the same ballpark. if available, the Creek 100A should also be on your demo list.

From previous experience I know that a few home demos will give me a better idea of where I'm heading (£1k or £1.5k+). One step at a time, I've been very patient up to now, so another month or so getting this right is no problem to me. Whatever amp I end up with will form the basis of a full upgrade including speakers eventually.

I actually picked up a contact from Creek at this years Bristol Show who would be able to organise a demo for me. It would have to be posted to me as the nearest dealer is 90 miles away.

 

[jonathanRD]

Yesterday I went along to a new dealer who has the full range of Exposure kit. In particular I wanted to listen to the 3010S2D integrated amplifier. The shop does not have a dedicated demo room, the whole shop is laid out with various setups ready to listen to, and you just move your chair from setup to setup.

Using my demo disk I listened to the following;

Exposure 3010S2D amp - with a Luxman D 06U SACD/CD player and Tannoy Prestige speakers.

Exposure 3010S2 CDP, 3010S2D Pre-amplifier, 2 x 3010S2 Mono Power amplifiers, and Tannoy Prestige speakers.

Quad Artera with Tannoy Prestige speakers.

Exposure 2010S2 CDP, 2010S2D integrated amplifier and Elac F6 floorstanding speakers.

There were three different models of the Tannoy Prestige speakers, and although I could guess the model names, I did not ask because clearly they are way over my budget. But they did at least provide a similar sound so I could concentrate on hearing the differences between the electronics. Hugely enjoyable to listen and it did afford me the opportunity to hear what £4k - £10k speakers sound like.

I could not discern much difference between the 3010S2D integrated and the full pre & mono block set up. We did remove the Luxman CDP and replace it with the Exposure 3010S2 CDP so I could determine how much difference a £6k CDP makes. By comparison to the Exposure setups, the Quad Artera sounded a little 'closed in', albiet with the cheapest Tannoy speakers at £4k. The 2010 setup with the F6 Elac floorstanders (£700) were ok.

If I was starting without any gear, I would probably have another listen to the Quad Artera at home with different speakers, as I did like the compact design, and it seemed nice to use. As for the Exposure pre-amp/mono block setup, I see no point in having so many boxes, especially as my av rack has to accommodate my av equipment as well.

In summary, whilst the demo was very enjoyable, the most important outcome was creating a relationship with the dealer, so that I can arrange a home demo of the 3010S2D amp.

Next step is to decide what else to home demo, and then coordinate them as close together as possible.

 

[rainsoothe]

Naim. Btw, some regard Exposure as the poor man's Naim, so if you liked one, you should like the other

 

[jonathanRD]

Just picked up the Elex-R to demo over this long weekend. It will give me a chance to have a proper listen before demoing the Elicit-R and Exposure 3010S2D. If the jump in price equals an obvoius jump in performance, there's no reason why I can't consider others at that level like Naim and Arcam for example.

I'm going to take my time, so this thread is likely to be a slow burner.*smile*

 

[rainsoothe]

Just picked up the Elex-R to demo over this long weekend. It will give me a chance to have a proper listen before demoing the Elicit-R and Exposure 3010S2D. If the jump in price equals an obvoius jump in performance, there's no reason why I can't consider others at that level like Naim and Arcam for example.

I'm going to take my time, so this thread is likely to be a slow burner.*smile*

oh, my, how I envy thee and people such as your patient self ^^

 

[jonathanRD]

For the past 17 months I've got used to a Rega Apollo CDP into a Brio 2000 amp into RS5 floorstanding speakers. Replacing the Brio's 38 watts with the Elex-R's 72 watts today made a noticable difference. The bass is stronger and more defined. Piano sounds better too. When I turn the volume up I can now feel the power coming through the speakers. I've had friends around visiting so I've not had a chance to listen critically yet, but so far so good. The amp has to go back on Tuesday so plenty of time for more listening *music2*

 

[jonathanRD]

This morning I returned the Elex-R after having it on home demo since Saturday afternoon.

It is clearly an obvious match for my speakers, in fact it blew the hat and gloves off them, such is the difference compared to my old Brio amp. Kick drums sounded and felt like they were being kicked, piano sounds like the keys were being struck with purpose, and I found it possible to listen comfortably to music at higher levels. It has better control over my speakers and that comes across in improved clarity, some instruments sound better (and different), and it all adds to the overall scale. The only possible negative is the soundstage seems a bit narrower, a little hard to explain really, it was not as wide as maybe I expected. Overall I really enjoyed the amp's presentation, and I would purchase one if I decide that the next level up is not worth the jump in price/performance. I appreciate that there maybe other amps at this price point that I may prefer after a home demo, but for now I am content to let the Elex-R act as a reference point at this level.

Plugged my Brio back in earlier and it sounds a bit lifeless by comparison, *sad*

Although other commitments will put my home demos on hold for a week or two, next up will be the Rega Elicit-R and Exposure 3010S2D and then after that who knows? *wink* *secret*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

This morning I returned the Elex-R after having it on home demo since Saturday afternoon.

It is clearly an obvious match for my speakers, in fact it blew the hat and gloves off them, such is the difference compared to my old Brio amp. Kick drums sounded and felt like they were being kicked, piano sounds like the keys were being struck with purpose, and I found it possible to listen comfortably to music at higher levels. It has better control over my speakers and that comes across in improved clarity, some instruments sound better (and different), and it all adds to the overall scale. The only possible negative is the soundstage seems a bit narrower, a little hard to explain really, it was not as wide as maybe I expected. Overall I really enjoyed the amp's presentation, and I would purchase one if I decide that the next level up is not worth the jump in price/performance. I appreciate that there maybe other amps at this price point that I may prefer after a home demo, but for now I am content to let the Elex-R act as a reference point at this level.

Plugged my Brio back in earlier and it sounds a bit lifeless by comparison, *sad*

Although other commitments will put my home demos on hold for a week or two, next up will be the Rega Elicit-R and Exposure 3010S2D and then after that who knows? *wink* *secret*

it seems to me you have kind of made your mind up with the Rega Elex-r but have you thought about trying the abrahamsen 2up ? It will blow the the other amps out of the water for £900 new or the Marantz pm8005 for £599 new both very good amps but the abrahamsen will drive any speaker and the abrahamsen has proper control with the bass and good sound stage too well detailed sound and good separation it's well worth a demo

 

[rainsoothe]

Brio sounds lifeless without needing another amp for comparison. ))

 

[jonathanRD]

and then after that who knows? *wink* *secret*

it seems to me you have kind of made your mind up with the Rega Elex-r but have you thought about trying the abrahamsen 2up ? It will blow the the other amps out of the water for £900 new or the Marantz pm8005 for £599 new both very good amps but the abrahamsen will drive any speaker and the abrahamsen has proper control with the bass and good sound stage too well detailed sound and good separation it's well worth a demo

The Elex-R is an obvious choice if I was to stick with my current source and speakers. The addition of the Rega DAC-R would then be the next consideration. But I have always purchased the best I can afford rather than second best, so I need to try the best I can afford first. I want to get something that will form the basis of a system that will last me the next 15 years (well into my retirement *shok*). That means then adding components and speakers that match each other. So I've not really made my mind up.

I was waiting for someone to mention some alternatives. I have lurked around this forum long enough to be aware of the options. There was a clue in the 'and then after that who knows? (wink, secret) *smile*

 

[jonathanRD]

Brio sounds lifeless without needing another amp for comparison. ))

Don't rub it in, I was just about to go and switch it on *sad*

 

[rainsoothe]

Brio sounds lifeless without needing another amp for comparison. ))

Don't rub it in, I was just about to go and switch it on *sad*

Haha Sorry, I was only joking - everyone here knows I'm kind of a Rega amp & DAC hater (also applies Yamaha amps). But seriously, you must try Naim (maybe even Unitiqute2) and Arcam as well ^^ I haven't heard any Rega speakers, but reading around says that the RS5 can sound too forward (but again, it's a matter of taste), so most Naim products might not be the best partner - but you should at least try it.

 

[jonathanRD]

Haha Sorry, I was only joking - everyone here knows I'm kind of a Rega amp & DAC hater (also applies Yamaha amps). But seriously, you must try Naim (maybe even Unitiqute2) and Arcam as well ^^ I haven't heard any Rega speakers, but reading around says that the RS5 can sound too forward (but again, it's a matter of taste), so most Naim products might not be the best partner - but you should at least try it.

Based on home demoing everything - it will be Christmas before I choose an amp at this rate.

I purchased the RS5's after having previously home demoed a few floorstanders including the RS3's. So I knew what they would sound like, but I only purchased them because they were an 'open box' pair which attracted a significant discount - a no brainer really. I've not read anywhere that they were too forward and I have really enjoyed them (but again, it's a matter of taste). Clearly they are designed to work with Rega electronics. But, I would like to get better speakers too - say around the £1500-£2000 mark, so the amp will be the starting point of an upgraded system. So Naim is not out the question, and the options are endless!

 

[rainsoothe]

Haha Sorry, I was only joking - everyone here knows I'm kind of a Rega amp & DAC hater (also applies Yamaha amps). But seriously, you must try Naim (maybe even Unitiqute2) and Arcam as well ^^ I haven't heard any Rega speakers, but reading around says that the RS5 can sound too forward (but again, it's a matter of taste), so most Naim products might not be the best partner - but you should at least try it.

Based on home demoing everything - it will be Christmas before I choose an amp at this rate.

I purchased the RS5's after having previously home demoed a few floorstanders including the RS3's. So I knew what they would sound like, but I only purchased them because they were an 'open box' pair which attracted a significant discount - a no brainer really. I've not read anywhere that they were too forward and I have really enjoyed them (but again, it's a matter of taste). Clearly they are designed to work with Rega electronics. But, I would like to get better speakers too - say around the £1500-£2000 mark, so the amp will be the starting point of an upgraded system. So Naim is not out the question, and the options are endless!

Well as some people here have pointed out in several threads, synergy between components is the most important. Rega amps will have great synergy with Rega speakers, so if Rega is your cup of tea, then you can just play it safe, as a Rega combo will undoubtebly give you satisfaction.

A couple of points on Naim, their stuff has, contrary to common belief, all kinds of different sounds, that have 1 major trait in common: PRaT. They have a way with rhythm and music flow that I haven't heard in any other amp (haven't heard any Hegels yet, unfortunately, but I am going to suggest one). The first gen XS was very smooth, to the point that some considered it too polite. The Nait XS2 can sound shrill, it had a way with "S"es that was too harsh for me. The 5si doesn't have that problem, but it's soundstage isn't as good as on the XS2. So on and so forth.

From reading through your posts again, I gather that you do like an open sound, but not forward. Rega seems to fall in that category, and my suggestions would be Hegel H80, Arcam A39, Naim Unitiqute 2 (don't let the 30w/ch fool you, it sounds more powerful then that, especially with speakers that are easy to drive) and Marantz PM8005. (with the mention that upgrading the UQ2 with Nap100 is worth it, imo). The bonus of the Hegel and the Naim is that they have DACs to bypass your cdp. To any of these amps, I would add Focal Aria 906 or 926, or Wharfedale Jade 3 (with the quibble that the Wharfedales are harder to drive, and the Naim combo won't do). My room is also 4x4, and floorstanders were rather overpowering in mine (of course, I had some overkill Martin Logan 40 and a Supernait 2 before, but my stuff is really balanced now).

Another note on the Nait 5si you auditioned, it bennefits from warm, rich sounding sources (which Appollo isn't), such as Naim's CD5si, Arcam iRdac or Chord Hugo. Hegel H80 is known for it's neutrality and rhythmic drive, so it could be a great bet.

Sorry if I'm confusing you further, but from my experience, spending more time auditioning means spending less money in the long run

 

[BigH]

Another note on the Nait 5si you auditioned, it bennefits from warm, rich sounding sources (which Appollo isn't), such as Naim's CD5si, Arcam iRdac or Chord Hugo. Hegel H80 is known for it's neutrality and rhythmic drive, so it could be a great bet.

How would you describe the Apollo then?

 

[jonathanRD]

Sorry if I'm confusing you further, but from my experience, spending more time auditioning means spending less money in the long run

I would like to hear the Hegel too, but it's too far to drive to the Midlands and back, and probably too difficult to arrange a home demo without more driving, same really with any attempt to home demo Creek stuff. But I will demo as much as I can. Ducking out now for a week or so due to other committments but will be back soon.

 

[BigH]

Sorry if I'm confusing you further, but from my experience, spending more time auditioning means spending less money in the long run

I would like to hear the Hegel too, but it's too far to drive to the Midlands and back, and probably too difficult to arrange a home demo without more driving, same really with any attempt to home demo Creek stuff. But I will demo as much as I can. Ducking out now for a week or so due to other committments but will be back soon.

Creek will send to you in post I believe for 2 week trial, then you only have to pay postage back, £20?

If the 50A is anything to go by the Creek 100A would be well worth trying. Around that price the Exposure 3010S2 would be trying also. http://www.creekaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Evo100A-Review.pdf

 

[Al ears]

The new Cyrus One?