Proac Response D1 or D2?

[batonwielder]

Thanks, David.

I'm really curious about the Studio 115's.

They could save me a lot of money, but the dealers in the States really shy away from them for some reason.

As I have no way to listen to these, I can only rely on reviews and comparison.

I would welcome any opinions on these, especially in comparison to the higher models in the line up.

Westerniser, I have some news for you. The new Harbeth Monitor 30.1 are being unveiled next month!

 

[Frank Harvey]

The only reason you'd go for the 115's over the D1's is if you wanted something easier on your amp, or if you wanted more bass. I can't think of a reason why anyone would choose them over D2's, except because they were cheaper

 

[batonwielder]

The only reason you'd go for the 115's over the D1's is if you wanted something easier on your amp, or if you wanted more bass. I can't think of a reason why anyone would choose them over D2's, except because they were cheaper

David, help me spend less money!

It's all relative, but even the Studio 115's, although hardly "high-end" in audiophile terms, are certainly not cheap in the daily context.

But it sure is tempting...

 

[Frank Harvey]

If you want to get as close as you can to the D2 for quality, but send less, go with the D1.

If you want to get as close as you can to the D2 for scale and bass, but spend less, go with the 115's.

 

[batonwielder]

If you want to get as close as you can to the D2 for quality, but send less, go with the D1.

If you want to get as close as you can to the D2 for scale and bass, but spend less, go with the 115's.

Oh man, you are not making this easy for me...

 

[Frank Harvey]

The end result can only be your decision

 

[batonwielder]

Westerniser, got your P3's yet?

My list is getting longer with the addition of Dynaudio X12...

 

[westerniser]

Hey, they arrive today actually!

Will update.

 

[westerniser]

Well, first impressions are good!

Mounted on some Foundation Stands (60cm), I still need to tweak filling them but positioning seems fine around 30cm from the rear wall in a 4x4, room.

They sound almost the same as the M30, but slightly sweeter, and of course, less bass. BUT, they are still very weighty for their size, the bass is warm and doesn't bottom out at higher volumes, these little speakers are capable! Most importantly, they sound so musical and enjoyable. I won't forget my first listen with them today, playing Fleetwood Mac, Rumours, followed by some Radiohead, Nick Drake and Massive Attack.

I think they are perfect for my room and set up. My memory of the Proac D1 is that they were slightly brighter but the bass and mid range wasn't as warm and full bodied. More analytical I guess. I don't think I would want the P3s to be any brighter, they are fantastic. Playing some Portishead Dummy, I was amazed by how much weight they had.

I prefer them with my new set up, than when I had the before (plain Supernait with Hicap). Now I have the DAC, Powerlines etc, the synergy is fantastic.

Anyway, so far so good... of course, they need a long listen to be fully 'signed off' but great first impressions.

 

[batonwielder]

That's great to hear! Thanks for not forgetting about the D1's and addressing my concerns.

I wonder if I should stop looking and just get the P3esr's, but try to find more openness and imaging through amplifiers and front ends.

I keep thinking that the P3esr's would sound terrific with the new Rega Brio R. I'm just not quite sure the power of the amplifier. As you might have noticed, the P3esr's are insensitive and power hungry! (sounds like a politician)

Are you going to take a stab at the new M30.1 coming out soon? I was thinking about it, but then they will be way out of my budget.

 

[westerniser]

Hi, I don't know of the M30.1... Are you sure you're not referring to the 40.1? I have looked online but couldn't find anything.

Saying that, either way, I probably won't, as I think they are too big for my room.

Back to the P3...The Supernait seems effortless with the P3esr, at 80wpc. I'm not familliar with Rega. Quite liked Cyrus 8xp and also the Audiolab integrated (nice and sharp) which I think would suit the P3 well.

 

[batonwielder]

Yep, there's gonna be a revamp of the M30's very soon, sourced from a dealer who was trying to sell his floor model in preparation.

Things are becoming a lot clearer to me now.

Harbeth P3esr+Rega Brio R vs Proac D1+current amp.

Basically the same price, but still far from being cheap. I guess there's no getting around spending more for quality.

 

[westerniser]

Any joy with the speakers?

The P3esr SE have been excellent so far, they are perfect for my environment and system.... I can't recommend them enough.

 

[batonwielder]

Any joy with the speakers?

The P3esr SE have been excellent so far, they are perfect for my environment and system.... I can't recommend them enough.

Not yet. A little frustrated at the moment because I have no way to listen to the D1's or the Studio 115's.

Found out something interesting though. The Studio 140mk2 is a replacement for the D18's (found out from a dealer). Does this mean the Studio 115's will be replacing the D1's and/or the D2's? It would seem logical as the Studio series, at this price point, is no longer "entry-level", and the new technology has rendered the Reponse series redundant.

It might seem a little excessive to think ahead and scrutinize everything, but it's no easy money for me.

Urghhh

 

[westerniser]

I'd be surpirsed, as the D18 is surely their most popular speaker.

The Response and studio series have a different sound - The studio being tuned towards professional monitoring. The Tablette sounded a little more 'studio' to me, too, whereas the D1 had a more musicsal sound. Somewhere between the Harbeth P3esr and the Tablette Anniversary. The D1 seemed to have more attack but werent quite as smooth and realistic in the mids, nor as smooth in the high freqs. The D1 and P3esr seemed similar in bass, from memory. Really like the D1, so I would recommend, but my only issue (apart from the lesser midrange IMO) is placement near walls. The rear port could be troublesome with some bass bloom.

I was thinking of also picking up some Tablettes for some monitoring on the desktop (just as a hobby really) but just saw the Neat Iota hit the shelves, and they could be perfect for a bit of home music making!

Good luck with the search!

 

[batonwielder]

I think the move only pertains to American market, as we tend to go for quantity rather than quality.

I've gathered up my courage and knocked Harbeth out of contention. They are great speakers, but I crave more immediacy and openness. You have no idea how hard it is to turn away from something so beautiful.

There is a new contender, however, in the name of JM Reynaud Bliss. They were on my radar during my speaker search when I was swept up by Harbeth fever.

Reynaud and Proac. I think it has become obvious what kind of presentation I like.

 

[westerniser]

Haven't heard the Reynaud, but I'm sure you can't wrong with the Proac. Keep us posted!

 

[paradiziac]

Would love to hear the JMR, but no importer in the UK

 

[paradiziac]

How about the new Acoustic Energy Ref 2's?

 

[batonwielder]

How about the new Acoustic Energy Ref 2's?

No....at this point, I'm a bit reluctant to consider other speakers. Thanks!

 

[batonwielder]

Ok, here's the final battle. I've knocked the Proac Studio 115 out of running, so there remains only two.

JM Reynaud Bliss (Silver) and Proac Response D1.

I guess Westerniser is lost in music with his new Harbeth speakers. Must resist!

 

[CnoEvil]

Ok, here's the final battle. I've knocked the Proac Studio 115 out of running, so there remains only two.

JM Reynaud Bliss (Silver) and Proac Response D1.

I guess Westerniser is lost in music with his new Harbeth speakers. Must resist!

I look forward to your view on the JM Reynaud Bliss Silver.

 

[westerniser]

Hahaha!

I thought to see how you were getting on.

Really pleased with the P3esr, they are working out well with the Supernait. I sold the M30 on, as the P3 seem ideal for my room. There's ample weight in these little gems, and the detail and midrange leaps out just the same, if not with a little more agility.

Perhaps I will step up to some bigger Harbeths if I have a much larger room in the future.

Did you try some D1 at all? I did wonder if they are getting replaced soon? I have seen a few on sale that's all... I thought maybe they will be updated like the Tablette.

Hope the demos go well, some cracking speakers there, you can't go wrong.

 

[batonwielder]

Wow, sold the M30's? Like the P3esr that much, huh? (covering my ears and pretending I can't hear anything)

I won't get to demo anything for awhile since I'm stuck where I am at the moment, but, so far I haven't even seen a dealer who carries the D1 and every place I call push the D2 like crazy.

I don't know if they are getting replaced anytime soon, but something's going on, for sure.

I feel like I'm caught in the limbo of sort.

I might get something really cheap, such as the new A series from Boston Acoustics, to hold me over until Proac cycles through. I can use these as movie speakers later on when I expand or use them for casual listening. Get something American for once and pay exactly for what they are. Apparently, they are pretty amazing speakers, and I'm kinda curious about them.

Or I can just get the Harbeth.

 

[SpursGator]

If you look carefully at the drivers used in the ProAc Response series - and also click on "discontinued models" on their website, it's pretty easy to identify which speakers will be the next to be replaced.

The D15s used a midrange driver with a copper phase plug. It was replaced by the D18s, which has an EXCEL magnet system with an acrylic phase plug.

The Response 1SC also used the copper phase plug. It was replaced by the D1, which has an almost identical driver to the D18 (just a bit smaller) - with an acrylic phase plug.

The Response D28 and D38, and the Response centre channel both use the 6.5" Volt midrange. The D40, which recently replaced the D38, uses a carbon fibre cone developed for the high-end K series.

The Tablette Signature 8 used a copper phase plug as well, but the new Tablette Anniversary replaced that with a carbon fibre cone based on the K series.

So to summarize: it would seem that the currently shipping ProAc Response range (based on midrange drivers) all fall into one of three generations. We'll call them 1, 2, and 3 even though ProAc has been through three decades of new generations:

Gen. 1: Based on copper-plug midranges and Volt midbass drivers. Response D2, D28, Response D Monitor centre channel

Gen. 2: Based on the EXCEL magnet system and acrylic phase plugs: Response D1, D18

Gen. 3: Based on carbon-fibre cones developed for the K4/K6: Tablette Anniversary, Response D40

I thus speculate that the next two speakers to be updated by ProAc will be the D2 and the D28 - the D28 should receive carbon fibre cones, and the D2 will either get the same driver as in the D18 or perhaps the carbon cone that will go in the replacement D28. I think which it is depends on how the new carbon cone will load a small ported box - reviewers have been more split on the carbon Tablette than on the D18s, which have received nearly unanimous praise.

It's an important point: Just because the copper-plug version of the D2 might be the next to go does NOT mean you shouldn't buy it. A lot of people like the old Tablette better. The D28 - the oldest and least technologically advanced speaker in the Response range - is one of the most adored speakers in hifi. Newer isn't necesarily better at this price level. It might just be different.

I've been reading your thread...if I were in your shoes I would buy the D1s.

BTW I own the Boston A25s and have listened to the A26s. They are seriously good for the money. If you had a nice Japanese amp (say JVC or a 400 quid Denon) they would make it sound wonderful.

In fact, I once memorably heard a pair of Boston Accoustic bookshelf speakers (BA60s, which cost US $198 per pair at the time, which was 1989) which I owned. I was helping a friend buy and amp and foolishly told him that the speakers would make a bigger difference so not to worry too much. The sales guy said, what speakers do you own, and I told him. He brought a pair into the high-end demo room and connected it to a large hunk of Krell iron (which at the time cost about $12,000). It was unreal - my speakers, my clear but refined little bookshelvers - had bass coming from all six surfaces in the room, and a vocalist - Harry Connick I belive it was - physically in the room with me, complete with intake of breath and little tongue noises between lines. It was a sick demo, to say the least (and of course my friend then spent $200 extra on the amp).

So a nice clean pair of speakers will do wonders even if they aren't "high-end" (this doesn't work the other way around). But I recently was listening to the A25s, thinking about how clean they sounded - then I hooked up a pair of KEF Q300s in the same system and was reminded that, just because it sounds good, doesn't mean it can't sound better - and let's face it, the KEFs aren't exactly high-end either.

You listen to orchestral music, you've got a nice amp...buy some nice speakers. If you buy D-whatevers and they replace them next week with slightly better speakers, you still have fabulous speakers, and you might not even like the new ones as well. Even if the new ones are better, the old ones will be better than A26s. Your logic leads to never buying anything you really want for fear it won't be the "best"anymore.

The D1s aren't getting replaced for awhile, they sound amazing, they are well suited to your amp and type of music, and they offer great resale value too. What are you waiting for?