Proac Response D1 or D2?

batonwielder

Well-known member
May 13, 2008
32
2
18,545
Visit site
Hello all!

It has been awhile since I've posted here, but I would really appreicate your input on these speakers.

I have listened to the Proac D2's and am considering buying these. However, I'm starting to wonder if I can get away with the D1's for my use and listening space of 5mx7m.

I've heard that the D2's are not exactly just a bigger version of the D1's and voiced differently. As I have no way to audition the D1's (it would mean a 12 hour road trip here in the States), your experience will help me tremendously, especially those of the dealers who sells them and post here on a regular basis.

I listen to classical (orchestral) and jazz only, and own Atoll IN100SE with 100 watts of power.

Thanks a ton!
 

westerniser

New member
Apr 8, 2010
16
0
0
Visit site
I have owned the D2 and tested the D1 on 3 occasions.

The d2 has a warmer, more full bodied sound, and the D1 sounds a bit faster and has a bit more 'snap'. My room is 4x4m and the d2 seemed a little bassy for my liking. Also the d2 seemed to dip in the mid range a bit due to the lift on the bottom and top frequencies. However, both had good detail. I thought the d1 would be excellent as revealing monitor speakers.

In my room, I would say the d1 would have been best suited, in hindsight. But, in a slightly larger room, maybe the d2.

However, I preferred the Harbeth P3, C7 and M30 to the proac d1, d2 and d18 respectively. I opted for the M30.
 

batonwielder

Well-known member
May 13, 2008
32
2
18,545
Visit site
Westerniser, thanks so much for the input. Would you mind sharing even more in detail?

It seems that I'm going in reverse of your previous experience.

I currently have the Harbeth 7es3's and wanted to get the Proac's for their strengths in imaging and openness.

Just how much bass extension will I miss in the D1's? Bass volume was never my priority, clarity is, and that was certainly not one of the strengths with the Harbeth's. I wonder if they sound anything like the Tablette's which I didn't like very much.

It's interesting that you chose the M30's over the other Harbeth's as they seem to be the least popular, but, to me they are the most accurate.
 

westerniser

New member
Apr 8, 2010
16
0
0
Visit site
Sure, no problem...

I started this comparison with a demo at home of the Proac D2, D18, Spendor A5 (owned these already) and Harbeth M30; I chose the Harbeth. However, over time I reviewed my choice as my Harbeths weren't sounding quite open enough for me.

I then tried the other Harbeths (C7 and P3) for several months, buying them second hand, and it's clear they all have their own qualities. The C7 had a little more brightness but were less revealling and the brightness wasn't as natural as the M30, the M30 has a better, soft dome tweeter. The P3 are excellent, but would love these for more nearfield listening. Absolutely incredible for their size though. Really musical too.

After several months, the M30 proved to have a more sophisticated level of openness and realism, but they may not impress in the showroom as they aren't quite as bassy or bright. During these three months I also revisted the Proac D2 ( I actually bought some!) and demo'd the D1 also.

Every time I switched to the Proac D2 at home, I liked the clarity of the upper frequencies and the smooth mid range. However, over a few days I would start to notice vocals and mids becoming wispy and a little unrealistic. They are still lovely speakers and will suit more complex and loud music better (heavy rock for example) as they are knocked back a little in the mids, but going back to the Harbeths I would really enjoy the music all over again, natural, smooth, accurate etc.

It sounds like you won't like the D1 if you don't like the Tablette. For me, they were in between the D2 and Tablettes in sound style. D1s were harder and punchier than the D2, but with good clarity, and smoother than the Tablettes, which were too clinical for me, without authority or warmth. The harbeth P3 had more weight, warmth and realism than the D1 and tablette.

After some changes to my system - Added the Naim DAC to the Supernait, changed the Naim cable to tellurium Q Black, a good Wireworld optical lead, new Mac Mini (with low jitter) and stopped playing Mp3, and played FLAC instead, my Harbeth M30 came alive. I was basically suffering from a poor source and not ideally matched intermediates.

I'd be careful changing to the Proac, but horses for courses. Can you do a home demo? They are great in the showroom but I ended missing the Harbeth qualities. FWIW, even though my fave Harbeth is the M30 (after the Super HL5 which is too big for my room sadly) the P3 was my next favourite. They had amazing clarity, like the D1 but more music. It's because they are a sealed box and have a light bass, which helps them come to life in the upper frequencies, compared to the C7. Also, I would double check your C7 have room to breathe, otherwise you will lose the clairty and detail in bass and mids. Open frame stands, away from walls, decent listening height etc, I'm sure you're aware! Also, have you removed the covers? They open up a little, but depends on whether they suit your space like that. I like to hear them bare, but prefer the look of the covers on.

Hope that's useful and good luck with your choice. Will aim to check the post agaon soon, see how you get on!
 

batonwielder

Well-known member
May 13, 2008
32
2
18,545
Visit site
Thanks so much for your detailed post, Westerniser. This is incredibly helpful.

For me, the strengths of the 7e3's that I fell in love with initially, let me know what I'd really like to hear.

During the ownership of these speakers I bought more jazz music than ever, and would sit infront of the speakers in awe and appreciation. There is no speaker that could approach the Harbeth's when listening to female vocals.

However, my main library, consisting of classical music, mostly orchestral, got neglected and left unselected. Chamber music and piano music fared better, but even then, the sound never became open enough. It was as if I was looking into a deep, beautifully resonant well.

Now I'm looking at P3, Proac D1, and D2.

I've heard the P3's recently, and for me, it was better than the 7es3's, because of the exact reason you mentioned, as having less and probably tight bass.

The D2's I heard handled orchestral music so well, and solo instruments soared high with vividness. This might turn many people off, but not me.

My only concern is if the jazz vocals I've come to enjoy, because of the Harbeth's, might get buried this time. Or the D2's might be too much in the direction I'm heading. Or the D1's can't handle complex orchestral music well.

I assume that you've tried all those speakers with your Naim amplifier, so I have to take that into consideration as well. From my experience, higher model Naim works incredibly well with Harbeth, not so with Proac.

So much for me to think about, but very excited to get new speakers!
 

westerniser

New member
Apr 8, 2010
16
0
0
Visit site
Did you make any further progress with the speakers?

I'm considering moving to the Harbeth P3 from the Monitor 30 due to neighbour issues. Saying that, I would still keep hold of the M30 for the next home.
 

batonwielder

Well-known member
May 13, 2008
32
2
18,545
Visit site
I haven't made much progress forward only because I've decided to take things slow and enjoy the process.

I will be able to demo the P3's at home for a couple of days. This will be very telling of such small speakers being able to fill the space of 12ft x 16ft, which will open doors to other options such as the Proac D1 and Tablette Anniversary. It will also be the final word on whether it's the tonality of the 7es3's or the Harbeth's in general that I can't agree with.

I've set a couple of rules for myself in this search:

1. Speakers must be able to perform well reasonably close to the wall - Speakers well into the room just because they need a breathing room, forcing a nearfield setup of less than 5 feet, are probably not the most efficient set of headphones.

2. Don't spend any more than necessary - For me, the point of diminishing return is actually in the beautiful cabinetry of some speakers. I'm buying musical transducers, not Italian furniture.

3. Don't be afraid of "brightness" - When I started looking around for speakers some time ago, I kept reading about "brightness" or lack thereof and its negative connotation especially when listened to in long term. My experience tells me that live music sounds bright when listened to in close proximity, and I certainly don't have time to listen to my system for "hours."

I'm not sure if the P3's will be more neighbor-friendly than your M30's are. In fact, the P3's might need to be played louder to sound good due to impedance and sensitivity. If I were you, I would go with a cheaper option that will sound good at low volume with higher sensitivity. I have that option open for myself as well.
 

westerniser

New member
Apr 8, 2010
16
0
0
Visit site
It sounds like Proac D1 might strike the right balance for you. They are fairly bright, but have a smoother sound too.

I have added some P3esr SE to my kit, and will receive them next week. Can't wait.

Eventually they will be for a second system in a new home, but will try them on the main system for a while. Plus a change of layout at home will accommodate the P3 better than the larger M30. Will report.
 

batonwielder

Well-known member
May 13, 2008
32
2
18,545
Visit site
Looking forward to it, westerniser. My in-home demo of the P3's starts in an hour! I'm so excited! I will probably report by tomorrow.

I'm also looking into the Studio 115's as well. I don't know how much difference it would make from the Response series, but it also seems to be newer technology. As far as I know, the Studio 140mkII's are killing the sales of the Response D18's.

I've realized that it's silly to try to reproduce a full-scale ochestra in my small living room. That would be so tiring to listen to!

As long as I get holographic imaging with vocals, upfront soundstaging of orchestra, and emotional directness of solo instruments, I will be a happy man.
smile.png


BTW, I'm glad to be running along the same track with you, westerniser. This is really helpful!
 

Frank Harvey

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2008
567
1
18,890
Visit site
batonwielder said:
3. Don't be afraid of "brightness" - When I started looking around for speakers some time ago, I kept reading about "brightness" or lack thereof and its negative connotation especially when listened to in long term. My experience tells me that live music sounds bright when listened to in close proximity, and I certainly don't have time to listen to my system for "hours."

I agree. I know it's personal preference, but I just don't find smooth sounding systems that enjoyable. I like my music with an edge, and many instruments do have an edge to them when played 'live'. I think man people mistake brightness for harshness, which are two totally different things.
 

batonwielder

Well-known member
May 13, 2008
32
2
18,545
Visit site
FrankHarveyHiFi said:
batonwielder said:
3. Don't be afraid of "brightness" - When I started looking around for speakers some time ago, I kept reading about "brightness" or lack thereof and its negative connotation especially when listened to in long term. My experience tells me that live music sounds bright when listened to in close proximity, and I certainly don't have time to listen to my system for "hours."

I agree. I know it's personal preference, but I just don't find smooth sounding systems that enjoyable. I like my music with an edge, and many instruments do have an edge to them when played 'live'. I think man people mistake brightness for harshness, which are two totally different things.

Right. Have you ever stood in front of a Wagner soprano? Sure clears up your sinus.
 

batonwielder

Well-known member
May 13, 2008
32
2
18,545
Visit site
Just a quick update:

I can definitely live with small monitors. The P3esr's sound fantastic in my room. The sound is cleaner, brighter, closer, and wider than the 7es3's. There's basically less bass, but it's definitely to my room's advantage.

Now that I know how small it can get, it's time to find out how cheap it can get. This opens up a whole another level of speakers, albeit lower. I'm thinking ATC SMC 7 and 11, alongwith the above-mentioned Proac D1, Tablette Anniversary, and Studio 115.

This is getting very interesting.
 

westerniser

New member
Apr 8, 2010
16
0
0
Visit site
I had the same effect too, big speakers aren't always better. Looking forward to reciving my P3 - went for the Special Edition too. It's strange how they deliver the same sound as the C7, but just a lighter version. You don't feel like you're missing anything, except boomy bass and a big box!

Expanding my experiences... I tried the P3, D1 and Tablette Anniversary all in the same day, which was a great way to do it. Then the SCM11 two days later. My least favourite was the SCM11 - they sounded a little unforgiving to me, but of course many like that style.

Looking forward to hearing how you get on with the line up, they're all brilliant speakers with oodles of fun.

I know of other members that use the P3 and also Tablette A on the end of reference systems, like Naim 500 series. I'd also be tempted to get some D1 or Tablette A if I see some used, just to try them for a longer period and rotate them with the Harbeth. They're all small, and easy to store, or look pretty on shelf!
 

batonwielder

Well-known member
May 13, 2008
32
2
18,545
Visit site
Is there a different pricing for the P3's Special Edition? My demo pair has that label, and I was wondering about it.

Anyways, I'm really enjoying the sound coming out of these little boxes right now. The problem I had with 7es3 such as cabinet resonance, sound in a well, weird harmonic distortion on piano music (metal tweeter?), and etc, has all but completely vanished. Also, the tweeter and the woofer speak as one voice without that artificial hash on top.

My suspicions were completely on target as to the ease of drive with these speakers. They take so much power to get going! They can also play really loud and, in fact, seemed to thrive on playing loud.

If I had to nitpick, the price stands in the way. The finish is absolutely gorgeous, and it's definitely a worth it, but it feels as if half of your money is going to the cabinet work. ATC SCM7 is exactly half the price of P3 (even less now that the model is near the end of production), and features no less technology with similar specs. It will eventually come down to what kind of sound I like, but now I understand marketing and target demography a little better.
 

westerniser

New member
Apr 8, 2010
16
0
0
Visit site
The SE are £100 more than the regular edition... Will be delivered next week.

Was listening to my M30 today with a bit more volume. Absolutely amazing when you add a bit of juice... but they're supposedly an easy drive. I must just listen at very low volumes compared to most - and what I listened to today was a normal level for once!

No bass issues, but they have a different style of cabinet to the C7, I read somewhere.
 

batonwielder

Well-known member
May 13, 2008
32
2
18,545
Visit site
Update: Initial flourish of enjoyment has begun to fade.

The P3esr's are some of the most pleasant sounding speakers I've ever heard, and still, for me, works better than the 7es3's.

Reviews have alluded to these speakers as being perfect for Jazz vocals and classical. Yes and no.

Classical music is extremely dynamic and vibrant, and that's exactly what the Harbeth's refuse to be. Perhaps my amplifier is too soft-sounding. I would consider these again with Naim or Rega amplification. I'm reserving these as the backup choice.

Up next: ATC and Proac
 

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts