Preamp For Bryston 3B SST2

[earlxtr]

I've owned a HK990 fit the past two yeas and love the sound it produces driving my Dynaudio Excite x12 Speakers. In my quest to get the ultimate sound (and spend money, of course, I just purchased a Bryston 3B SST2. (Here in Canada we can buy Bryston at a reasonable price on the used market, unlike other countries I am told). I just recieved it yesterday and connected it to the preamp outputs of the HK990 and spent the evening listing to my new toy. The sound was leaner and more crisp. This especially helped in the faithful reproduction of percussion instruments such as piano and drums. Vocals also had a thinner but more airy presentation. Intruments were more separate and spread out on the sound stage. Detail was a slight bit better than the Hk990 but not a whole bunch. The price for this was some of the wonderful sweetness of the Hk990, especially in the female vocals. The Hk990 also knit the sound together in a very special way that simply sounded beautiful. Some of these differences caused the Bryston to be not quire as romantic and emotionally engaging as the Hk990, but still a very enjoyable amp to listen to with some very distinct benefits. The Bryston is still every bit as smooth as the Harmon Kardon with no edginess or courseness.

i am wondering, though, if using the HK990 as the preamp is limiting some of the sonic benefits I could be getting fron the Bryston? The most obvious thing might be that it may not be passing through all of the high frequency detail that is present on the source material. The obvious way to test this would be to use a Bryston preamp but I do not have access to one. Ultimately I would like to get a preamp with digital inputs just like the Hk990 has (2 coax and 2 optical). Onkyo makes the P-3000R that looks perfect from a functional perspective and retails for $1699 in the US. Has anyone heard this and do you think it will do justice to the Bryston amp? Are there other alternatives that may be better?

BTW, please don't add comments about special cables or other such voodoo. Let's keep this about preamp choices for Bryston amps. Thank you!!!

Earl

System: Squeezebox touch Source > Metrum Octave DAC (great!!) > HK990 Pre out > Bryston 3B SST2 Power Amp > Dynaudio Excite x12 Speakers.

I also have digital sources (coax or optical) from Blu Ray, TV, Playstation 3 and Computer.

 

[CnoEvil]

Would you consider a Tube Pre, as it might give you the best of both worlds? Do you know what brands you have access to?

The Pre has, imo, a big impact on the sound....so could be worth experimenting.

 

[matt49]

Would you consider a Tube Pre, as it might give you the best of both worlds? Do you know what brands you have access to?

The Pre has, imo, a big impact on the sound....so could be worth experimenting.

I was thinking along the same lines, as Bryston amps can have quite a lot of "bite". However, Earl says he wants a digital input, so maybe something like a Peachtree novaPre might do the job. It has a built-in DAC and a switchable tube stage, for when things get a bit edgy.

As for other amps with built-in DACs, Bel canto would be worth a try.

If you're happy to use an external DAC and can find the brand in Canada, Croft would be worth considering.

:cheers:

Matt

 

[earlxtr]

I forgot to list my whole system.

Squeezebox Touch > Audio GD Digital Interface (Yes, it's voodoo > Metrum Octave (great!!!) > HK 990 Pre > Bryston 3B SST2 Amp > Dynaudio Excite x12 Speakers.

 

[bluedroog]

I agree with what has already been said, in my opinion assuming your power amp has sufficient power for your speakers of choice aside from the room and speakers the preamp with have the next biggest influence on sound.

My my adivse would be to try as many as possible, try high quality simple passives against tube preamps, you'll be surpsied at how different they can sound and ultimately synergy will play a huge part here so really all we can do is urge you to expose yourself as much as possible.

sweet amp by the way, enjoy.

 

[earlxtr]

I concure with what has been said so far and do realize that the pre can have a huge influence on the sound. I was once auditioning ATC SCM 11 speakers through an ATC 150w pre and power amp. The sound was spectacular. Swapping out the pre with another (Canadian high end) brand destroyed the great sound. What an edumacation!!! )

 

[CnoEvil]

Some ideas: http://www.stereophile.com/category/tube-preamp-reviews

 

[earlxtr]

The peachtree navadac and the parasound P5 only have 2 Digital inputs. I could live with that but 4 would be better. Maybe I should not let that get in my way or I will be very limited in my choices. I imagine that the Onkyo P3000R will not add any tube like warmth to the sound based on other Onkyo/Integra products I have listened to...most of what I found sounded cold and lifeless, not at all emotionally engaging. Is that what others have found as well? I thought maybe putting a very neutral pre like the Onkyo in front of a good sounding power amp would not hurt the sound and just serve as pure pass through. The only way I'm going to be able to try the Onkyo it to buy it. My best friend owns a audio business so I can get Onkyo at his cost and sell it used if I don't like it, without losing my shirt... Is it worth a go???

 

[CnoEvil]

The peachtree navadac and the parasound P5 only have 2 Digital inputs. I could live with that but 4 would be better. Maybe I should not let that get in my way or I will be very limited in my choices. I imagine that the Onkyo P3000R will not add any tube like warmth to the sound based on other Onkyo/Integra products I have listened to...most of what I found sounded cold and lifeless, not at all emotionally engaging. Is that what others have found as well? I thought maybe putting a very neutral pre like the Onkyo in front of a good sounding power amp would not hurt the sound and just serve as pure pass through. The only way I'm going to be able to try the Onkyo it to buy it. My best friend owns a audio business so I can get Onkyo at his cost and sell it used if I don't like it, without losing my shirt... Is it worth a go???

Personally, I wouldn't sacrifice sound quality for flexibility, but I quite understand people taking a different approach.

 

[earlxtr]

So the question is whether the Onkyo is a sacrifice??? I read one forum where the user said it sounded fantastic...as good at $10k Preamps he had heard...but I don't believe everything I read )))

 

[CnoEvil]

People on forums say a lot of things! :shifty:

Your HK gets pretty hot and is quite heavily biassed in Class A. Once you like that emotive presentation, it's quite hard to give up. The mixture of a clean, ballsy power amp and a good Valve Pre, can be quite addictive.

 

[earlxtr]

I believe you!!! Tube like sound is addictive! just the thought of giving up the HK for a different sound has caused me distress. I own a Mesa Boogie guitar amp that is all tube so I know sweet tube sound Yes, the HK990 does produce that sweet tube like sound, which is hard to give up, even for a sound that is truer to the sound of origin. One thing I forgot to mention was that the acoustic guitar sounded fantastic with the Bryston, more life-like then I have ever heard. I would say the Bryson is definitely more nuteral in its presentation them the HK990. Is not harsh but does not romanticize anything either. Good recording can sound really good but I'm sure not so good recordings will sound, well, not so good Hmmm, I might need a tube preamp

 

[CnoEvil]

My advice is to be guided by what you truly like, as opposed to what you think you ought to like.......which seldom works in the long run.

 

[akosgyorfi]

It's a shame you have no access to a Bryston preamp even though you live in Canada. I own the 4BSST2 which sounds quite similar to yours. I also have tried different preamps to get the most of the 4B . I started off with my Benchmark pre DAC wich sounds pretty well but with artificial trebles and lack of bass authority. Then I tried my Krell s300i as a preamp. The Krell was very airy but has a tendency of leading to the high frequencies with not much sweetness in the mids and short of bass details. So I ordered the Bryston Bp26 (built-in DAC can also be added). By placing the Bp26 in the system everything has come to life,become real. Now music sounds natural,fluid,lifelike. Details,body,low frequency authority, 3D,correct low-high balance,mid freq sweetness...etc. Normally I am not a "synergy guy" but I belive that your Bryston power amp sounds the best with a Bryston preamp.....(IMO)

I honestly doubt that that Onkyo will sound any better with your Bryston than a Benchmark or a Krell.

Hope you will find the best pre, good luck

 

[hifikrazy]

When I bought my Bryston 3B SST, I brought along my Audio Research tube preamp to audition together. During that audition, we also compared to the Bryston BP6 preamp. In my opinion, I felt that the Bryston power amp was better with a tube preamp as the Bryston preamp was very neutral but rather cold and sterile. As you have noticed, the Bryston power amp can sound a bit lean, so the fullness and warmth of a tube preamp is the ideal match.

 

[ID.]

I've only heard the Onkyo briefly on the end of the Onkyo power amp, but what I've read seems to agree with the conclusion you've reached - It wouldn't be described as warm. It tends to follow the current Onkyo house sound which is rather clean, cool and detailed, so I don't think it is going to give you the lushness or warmth you are looking for.

 

[hifikrazy]

Let's just be frank about it... Onkyo make great AV amps but for hi-fi, a Bryston power amp deserves a lot better than an Onkyo preamp.