Panasonic 24fps customers need to know

[Anonymous]

Ok, guys.

I probably give you the impression the my only aim is stress you with repetitive question, but it's not.

Me, as many other possible buyers, just like to have as many informations as possbile before spending a thousand dollars. I'm an old reader/buyer of What Hi-Fi, and since Panasonic is keeping a strange position on this subject (who can say that's not the case?), I'm just trying to ask you an help.

I know you aswered me so many times but, hey, one, two, even three more questions kindly asked if they can help me in better spending my salary. Is it so bad?

Andrew, have you ever gone to a professionist who doesn't do your same job (doctor, lawyer, architect) and asking him more or less the same quetion many times ? Are you stupid ? I don't think so, you're just trying to get an help. don't get it so seriously I laugh when I read you post about going out with a gun, it's fun. This is a forum where people, like me who read PX doesn't handle 24hz and read the review on your magazine who says the opposite, are happy to get an help from you. No enemy or people who wants to hurt anyone else.

Clare you've been really kind.

It's just that Panasonic didn't put near to the pz line a golden logo 24fps to sell their televisons (maybe they will do that next to their upocoming april plasma), they write it very small on the specs chart. That's why it looks sincere.

People buying new plasma today and spend thousand dollars wants to play smooth bluray, in the next couple of year. And since it's possible that new Panasonic plasma will clearly support (golden logo ) 24fps, a person who buy his plasma today, maybe for xmas, will feel very bad if something got wrong with his "gift".

Many people think that true 24fps is very important today.

Sorry for bug you with this question, but we just ask you before you're lucky you can test hardware for free (I know it your work , I mean you don't have to buy the tvs).

We customers have to buy before and later try our product when we already paid for them. If I go to Panasonic later telling I want my cash back because on my 42px70 bluray movies don't play at 24fps, they will laugh at me telling me "we never write it. Bye", and my moneys are gone.

Thanks again I really appreciated every attemp to give me as many information as you can.

m.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
Connect said TV to a PlayStation 3, and set the latter to output at 24fps. The PS3, being a helpful chap, will demand to test the ability of the display it's being plugged into, and produces a test image. Which can only be seen if the display can handle 24fps. If it can't you'll see nothing but a message telling you your set can't run at 24fps.

[/quote]

What if the said TV can receive a 24fps signal but then it will traform it in a 60hz signal (and not reproduce it at the source original speed of 24fps). Do you see the image in this case or not.

It can be another possibility, isn't it ?

Maybe Px can "handle" 24fps in the menaning they can receive a signal from a source at that speed but it's not avle to reproduce later at the same speed and it convert it ... as it's able to receive a 1080p signal even if it can't reproduce it (scaling it).

Thanks again.

m.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Welcome to Groundhog Day, the Musical. On Ice.

Seriously, the only solution I think is for Clare and me to buy one of every TV Panasonic makes, or has ever made, and bring them all round to your house and prove that yes, they have all of the colours, in all of the sizes, and then leave you with the one you are convinced the whiole world isn't lying to you about.

Oh, and while we're about it, we'll get a spiritualist to contact the ghost of Konosuke Matsushita and get him to give you his personal assurance that yes, the TVs do just what we've told you about 10 times now they do.

I'm really not sure what else you want us to do. And yes, that was a rhetorical statement, so don't feel you need to tell us again.

 

[Andy Clough]

[quote user="Andrew Everard"]

Day 37

Can't stand this interminable questioning any more. Tonight, while the guards are asleep, am going to break into the armoury, take a gun, go out into the snow-covered forest, and end it all

A man can only take so much...

[/quote]

Andrew, please don't do it, I need you at work tomorrow morning in one piece! Just spent 4 hours stuck on the M40 in a traffic jam and thought I was having a bad night... but seems I missed out on all this 24fps fun!

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="Andy Clough"]

Just spent 4 hours stuck on the M40 in a traffic jam and thought I was having a bad night... but seems I missed out on all this 24fps fun!

[/quote]

Compared to this, four hours stuck on the M40 would be fun

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew,

I'm an old time Internet user and, trust me, that won't be a flame.

I understand you're tired of my questions. Simply don't answer them. I suppose you dind't read my previous long (too long, I admit) post, or you didn't understand it. Just don't get it so bad, there lots worst in the world than an old time reader of your magazine that ask the same controversial question three times.

Clare thanks again.

Andy I see you entered the arena ... do you have an opinion about this Panasonc PX70 "true" 24fps ability. I tought I read something by you times ago, and I'm really interested in your point of you too.

Thanks guys.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Have you considered a Pioneer?

But seriously - our repeated testing and on-show-to-the-public TV gallery at our Show, plus the input of fellow Forum members who own the sets doesn't seem to have convinced you.

Therefore, in the absence of any helpful input from Panasonic, I think you're only going to find peace of mind by either:

a) buying a 'Z' series Panasonic or

b) another set where the manufacturer claims (and we've tested to confirm) 24fps support.

 

[Anonymous]

Matt

This is getting silly, i who use and own the Panasonic and consider myself to be a av anorak, i am telling you that it works fantastically with blu-ray at 24 fps. But if a label or a sticker or a manual is going to ease your stress please buy a Pioneer. Sorry to sound harsh but if you wont listen to experts and owner who do you listen to?

 

[Anonymous]

Ok friends.

Those are the kind answers I expected to receive from gentle and expert people like you.

This is my last request (I know I've been boring) and I promise I won't stress you anymore. You don't know how you've been helpful not just for me, but for so many people I know which are choosing their new tv for Xmas.

Since I think Pioneer cost a little too much considering the excellent quality of Panasonic too, and considering the kind of material I'll watch (bluray, dvd, but SD souce too) here is my final choice:

. a Bravia lcd d3000 or w serie (with the sticker 24fps)
. a Panasonic 42pz70 (with the specs on manual)
. a Panasonic 42PX70 (that I'm sure it's a great Tv, trusting your good advices on its ability to handle true 24fps)

Considering that I still watch SD sources too and watching them near each other, I think that plasmas have still an edge over lcd concerning overall picture quality.

I read all your magazine issues and everywhere on the Internet and everybody says that Px70 is a great TV, I see it to so many times in person too, and it looks very good. It seems to that in some aspect it is even a little better than PZ, obviously when not showing Full HD sources.

So, I know I'm boring and a maniac before buy, but I'm not stupid.

If you tell me (again, I know) it handles "true" 24fps, as I write in my last post not in the meaning that it can receive a 24fps source (but later convert it to 60hz) but that it can receive it and reproduce (!) it at 24fps, allowing me to watch my bluray disc with no jadder (as on a PZ - never seen a bluray on it - or as on a Bravia D3000 - I tested it and frankly, no jadder at all), I won't buy a different TV just for the sticker. I'll be really happy to buy my 42px70 that I think is a marvellous TV.

I promise it's the last time I ask.

Clare, Andy, Jimmy ... one last answer as clear as possible referred to my last specific question.

Thanks a lot again and excuse me if I've been so repetitive.

m.

 

[Andrew Everard]

The answer is yes.

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="mgj"]
Andrew,

I'm an old time Internet user and, trust me, that won't be a flame.

I understand you're tired of my questions. Simply don't answer them. I suppose you dind't read my previous long (too long, I admit) post, or you didn't understand it. Just don't get it so bad, there lots worst in the world than an old time reader of your magazine that ask the same controversial question three times.

[/quote]

It's not a question of 'simply don't answer them' - we have answered them, several times. The mere fact you've asked the same question three times is what baffles me...

 

[Anonymous]

Before the entire staff of the magazine consider self-imposed exile to a small uninhabited island off the coast of Norway, I'd just like to add that I purchased a 37LZD70 this weekend and it works perfectly with my PS3 with the 24fps option forced to 'on'.

And it looks bloody great too. I'm a bit new to all this, and have only just upgraded from an older 30" Panasonic CRT but we sat and watched the Silver Surfer movie on Blu-Ray last night and both my missus and I were in no doubt we'd made the right choice (with your magazine's wise guidance). It's great, now I'm off to get my Sky HD sorted...

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="Dan Taylor"]
Before the entire staff of the magazine consider self-imposed exile to a small uninhabited island off the coast of Norway, I'd just like to add that I purchased a 37LZD70 this weekend and it works perfectly with my PS3 with the 24fps option forced to 'on'.[/quote]

Are you sure? Could it be converting the signal to an ion stream, bouncing it off the surface of the moon then getting it back as 405 lines black and white which the pixies inside the TV are then colouring in by hand?

 

[Clare Newsome]

Panasonic - who've just come back to us with an infuriating "we can neither confirm nor deny" kind of response on the whole issue - would no doubt refuse to comment even if that was the case!

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks again Clare.

I really appreciate your attemp to ask Panasonic too!

Just one last answer Clare (.. and anyone who wants to help this good devil) to my 10.09 am post.

Thanks to all.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Answered in my 10.22 am post

 

[Andy Grange]

Is this a comedy thread? If so, it's very good

: )

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="Andy Grange"]Is this a comedy thread? If so, it's very good

: )[/quote]

Not sure if it's actually funny, or it's just that the Panasonic's processing it to make you think it's funny.

 

[Anonymous]

What HiFi confirms these to be 24Fps pannels....

A 24Fps pannel will produce 24Fps faitfully with ZERO Judder....In order to do thi,s the pannel cannot use 50 or 60 Hz with 3:2 pulldown. This is simple mathematics and can be seen better below:

3:2 for 24 to 50 refresh rate is 111 22 33 44... 121212 (i.e. twelve)
1313 (thirteen) 1414 etc.. i.e. displaying 2 frames for 22 of the
frames, 3 for the other two per second (making a total of 50 frames
being displayed per second)

3:2 for 24 to 60 refresh rate is 111 22 333 44 555 (resulting in 12
frames repeated 3 times in the 24 to upconvert to 60 frames per second)

The pannel would have to skip frames in order to display the 24Fps signal and this is what causes judder, more frames are skipped if the set is running the conversion @ 60Hz than 50Hz, therefore less judder will be percieved on a 3:2 50Hz conversion...

Infact @ 50Hz it can be far harder to notice... 60Hz is more blatant, the best scenes to spot the judder is long intricate pans..

A 24Fps pannel reproduces the 24Fps source by using a multiple of 24Fps for Instance 3:3 pulldown running @ 72Hz (3x24)... No frames are skipped, so the image is seamless and the source is faithfully reproduced:

3:3 is 111 222 333 (displaying each frame for 3 frames at 72Hz refresh rate)

A 24Fps panel "will" use the above method or similar in order to mantain the sources intergrity... any conversion via 3:2 50/60Hz means the pannel is not 24Fps...

Simple as that!

Im interested myself how the Pz70B performs the conversion as Im a bit of an anorak about these things.. but I imagine probably 3:3 pulldown 72Hz as its probably the simplist way to do it.. it may be using another method ? Also I just bought one after reading What HiFi and delighted to get a 1080p 24Fps Pannel of the pansonics quality for its current price...

 

[Clare Newsome]

[quote user="Veritas"]
Also I just bought one after reading What HiFi and delighted to get a 1080p 24Fps Pannel of the pansonics quality for its current price...

[/quote]

Glad to have been of help!

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Clare Newsome"][quote user="Veritas"]
Also I just bought one after reading What HiFi and delighted to get a 1080p 24Fps Pannel of the pansonics quality for its current price...

[/quote]

Glad to have been of help!

[/quote]

I did demo it as well to be honest But you helped cut down my shortlist!

 

[Anonymous]

"Connect said TV to a PlayStation 3, and set the latter to output at
24fps. The PS3, being a helpful chap, will demand to test the ability
of the display it's being plugged into, and produces a test image.
Which can only be seen if the display can handle 24fps. If it can't
you'll see nothing but a message telling you your set can't run at
24fps"

This is infact eroneous.... the PS3 will simply confirm if your pannel can accept the 24fps signal, it will not confirm that your pannel is a 24fps set that will correctly utilize the 24fps source material..

An analogy would be feeding a 720p Hd ready pannel a 1080p source, allowing it to downscale it to the native 720p and then declaring your 720p pannel was a 1080p pannel...

Im not aware of how to test if a pannel is infact 24fps bar looking at slow pans and the likes to see if you can spot judder... but Im sure the what hifi team have the ability to extract data like how the pannels are utilizing a 24fps signal in order to confirm the set is infact 24fps and not just a set that can accept but not correctly process 24fps...

 

[Anonymous]

Veritas, you're explanations seem to be very technical, I really appreciate it.

But, at the end, maybe due to my difficulty in understanding English very well, I can't realize:

in your opinion PZ can reproduce smoth real 24fsp with no jadder ? Is it a true 24fps performer ?

What about the PX ?

Look at PANASONIC UK WEBSITE has a .pdf brochure giving lots more details on thier autumn 2007 televisons.

http://www.panasonic.co.uk/plasma-tv/th-42pz70b/index.htm

(click on "Viera Full Range Brochure" logo on the right column)

Look, in particular, PAG. 28 and 29.

Accordign to their "Applicable scanning format" data, it seems that PZ can do 24p while PX just 60p !

Thanks a lot again

 

[Anonymous]

According to Panasonic Netherlands too, just PZ70 (42'' and 50'') provide full 24fps support.

All the PX serie and PZ700 don't support it.

Remember that in Netherland:

PZ serie is called PY
PX serie is called PV

Take a look here (for PZ/PY)





http://www.panasonic.nl/Products_Info.asp?M=4180|603|602|601|4|1

and here (for PX/PV)

http://www.panasonic.nl/Products_Info.asp?M=3918|603|602|601|4|1

And tell me what do you think about it.

mgj

 

[Anonymous]

you pair are getting far too technical , listen it either works or it doesnt you dont need to read it in a manual or a so called av forum.