Panasonic 24fps customers need to know

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A

Anonymous

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I was explaining how a 24fps TV CAN display a 24fps source correctly and how some TVs can except the 24fps source signal but NOT display correctly and why they create judder and are therefore NOT 24fps TVs.

As far as the PX range is concerned I was unaware that it could process 24fps correctly, unless it has had a firmware update... the only reference I know of that categorically states that the PX is infact capable of correct 24fps reproduction is what hifi, so its news to me but good news, as it a great value pannel, infact incredible value if it displays 24fps correctly.

As for the PZ70 range, panasonic states in various references that its is a 24fps set, this would imply that it correctly and faithfully reproduces from a 24fps source with ZERO Judder. What Hifi confirm this as well, many owners confirm they have no issues with 24fps play back.

I have seen the PZ70 play back blue ray and didnt detect judder, untill I recieve the PZ I have ordered only then will I be able to test it with a variety of feeds that could create the dreaded judder... Though I would be incredibly dissapointed if it did NOT faithfullly reproduce 24fps and was skipping frames by using the likes of 3;2 pulldown @ 60HZ... But the most established AV magazine in Britain is confirming that this is not the case and they are literally experts with ISF certified members.. So Im sure that if you purchase a TV they catergorically state to display 24fps correctly it will infact do such.

I suppose the only 100% way to convince you would be for panasonic to confirm such or if there is some way to test a pannel and extract how it processes the 24fps signal. Unfortunetly panasonic dont seem to wish to confirm the precise details of how there pannels are converting 24fps source and I have no idea how to detect what happens to the 24fps signal once it leaves the source..
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Looking for the "truth" (if ever possible) we're working together to discover if/which Panasonic plasmas do really support true 24fps output.

Summarizing:

PZ70 (42'' and 50'')

It seems they fully support 24fps.

What Hi-Fi AV gurus= they state it clear - OK
Techy user/owner=they confirm - OK
other AV forums=they confirm - OK
Panasonic= some int. websites (Panasonic UK, Netherlands and CZ) they write it on their specs - OK

PZ700 (42'' and 50'')

doubts

What Hi-Fi AV gurus= they state it clear - OK
Techy user/owner=no feedback - ?
other AV forums=no feedback - ?
Panasonic= some int. websites (Panasonic UK, Netherlands and CZ) they don't mention on specs - NO

PX 70,700 /42'' and 50'')

Many doubts

What Hi-Fi AV gurus= they state it clear, they are the only ones at the moment, but they are great expert, they also published it on their famous magazine - OK
Techy user/owner=contorversial - ?
other AV forums=no - NO
Panasonic= some int. websites (Panasonic UK, Netherlands and CZ) they don't mention on specs - NO

Thanks everybody for the precious support.

Anyone else wants to contribute ? It will obviously be really appreciate

mgj
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Andrew, honestly, it's not really fun. It's repetitive, at least, as my question.
It's uneseful and if we want to get fun, there are much funnier jokes on the net.

We (customers) really appreciate the contribution of all the other What Hi-Fi Editors.
Read Clare and Andy posts; they give precious informations and details, helping us in choosing our new televison set.

It can look weird to you, and it looks clear you're no interested in, but this subject concernign Panasonic plasmas 24fps ability is widely discussed on the net these days.

We're posting here too, because we're struggled between these two facts:

a) What Hi-Fi is a famous magazine everybody trust (I'm a subscriber) and its editors are AV gurus (you too, I read lots of great posts by you too)

b) What Hi-Fi, at the moment, is the only source in the world, that write black on white here on the forum and published on magazie issues too, that Panasonic PX plasmas can output true 24fps

We're just trying to help each other and receive your help too.

That's what a Forum is meant to be.

Thanks everybody.
 

Andrew Everard

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I stand chastised for my frivolity. Really must take this whole thing much more seriously.

I am 'interested in', and I am glad Clare and Andy are of such help to you, but I just fail to see why, if 'What Hi-Fi is a famous magazine everybody trust', and you are subscriber, you just don't accept what we are telling you.

When you do what we do for a living, you know that:

1) Manufacturers' websites are notoriously unreliable

2) The internet is brilliant at turning rumours into facts

3) The only way to find something out is to test it for yourself - which we have, and told you the results.

If you're determined to tie yourself in knots by reading other sites, that's your problem. If not, then do as Clare says, and buy one of the Panasonic screens you 'know' does 24fps - if that's really so important to you, and not just the latest 'must have' dreamed up by the engineers and marketeers - or a Pioneer, or a Sony, or anything else with the precious sticker on.

But be fully aware that there's bound to be some other 'must have' feature along soon that these screens won't have, and then you'll be panicking all over again. There are already people talking about 1440p...

That's life...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Thank you all.

Adrew, still be friend ? :)

I'll be serious too, finally.

I know tech never stops and that both PX and PZ will be obsolete in the near future, but - trust me - I'm not afraid of it.

I really appreciate (like many other customers) the What Hi-Fi attitude to focus on "real" Picture Quality instead of data sheet and stickers on the TV. We're all glad to you for that.

That's why I love Panasonic PX serie and I don't bother too much on Full HD panels. I didn't even consider PZ at start.

Later came this 24fps question.

Again, and please trust me, I'm not really interested in the spec itself ... a customer can't be really interested in what's running inside his Tv set.

I just don't want ot buy a new set today and start to see bad bluray (jadder, etc.) not in the next years ... but tomorrow. Bluray are here.

So all the question concerning 24fps can be read as "how will I see my bluray tomorrow morning after buying my PX/PZ tv?"

I'm not a techie and, honestly, I never see a jaddering tv "live" in person (I can't test TV), just hear about it, but it sounds like it is an annoying fact.

Yes Clare I can buy a PZ to ease my mind but a you read people more informed than me say that PZ it do receive 24fps but than it convert it to 60hz passing this way the PS3 too. (read previous posts)

This way I should go with the cheaper PX, since I'm not really interested in full hd panel, but just in buying a great all around set.

Px sounds my TV, just worried about how will I see bluray disc on it ...
(how PZ vs PX in watching SD sources .. dvd, freeview etc. is PX better than PZ?)

Some people say that jaddering is very eye subjective other say that a jadder bluray disc is a very bad watching experience ...

I don't know ... maybe it just happen 10 seconds in the entire movie, maybe less ... maybe in a fast action movie it happens lost more ... I don't know ...

That's why I'm asking help.

... and I know I've been boring :(

Thanks friends.

Any final help will be appreciate as usual ...
 

Andrew Everard

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[quote user="mgj"]
Any final help will be appreciate as usual ...

[/quote]

Sigh, just when I thought you were finally happy, you go and ask all over again...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Yes, I know

But it's a different question, concerning "real" picture quality not data specs.

Do I have to stop asking wahtever, forever :) ?
 

Clare Newsome

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You don't have to stop asking, just start listening!

We've repeatedly said there are no juddering issues with either range - as anyone who saw our gallery at the Show will attest. We would not have given the products Awards if this were the case.
 

Andrew Everard

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[quote user="mgj"]
But it's a different question, concerning "real" picture quality not data specs.

[/quote]

And one we've answered, repeatedly.

Hang on a minute, I thought you weren't interested in what the screens actually did, but what the specifications said...?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
You don't have to stop asking, just start listening!

We've repeatedly said there are no juddering issues with either range - as anyone who saw our gallery at the Show will attest. We would not have given the products Awards if this were the case.

[/quote]

That sounds great ! (...I'm listening!)

Really I'm not interested too much in Full hd panels, so that PX would be the perfect choice for me.

I just want a good bluray watching.

And please believe me, I'm not interested in stress you just because it is satisfing for me ...
It's just that I try to get as much infomration as I can .... so I read everywhere on the net.

I trust you guys (I'm a subriber, as I told you), but when I read for example

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Panasonic-TH42PZ70B/Picture-Quality.php

and I read "we see a slight juddering on the PZ no on the Pioneer" ... I don't have reasons not to trust them too, you know. (what do you think about it?)

Finally Clare, an aswer noone has still give me:

don't think about the price ... imaginary world ... PX and PZ costs the same

Do you think that PX is slightly better in showing SD sources (common dvd, freeview ...) than PZ ?

Thanks friends
 

Clare Newsome

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[quote user="mgj"]

I read "we see a slight juddering on the PZ no on the Pioneer" ... (what do you think about it?)

[/quote]

Yes, the Pioneer is a better set than the Panasonic - THAT'S WHY IT WON PRODUCT OF THE YEAR!!!!! Slightly more stability in the picture is down to the Pioneer's superior picture processing. And no, that's nothing to do with 24fps - just the quality of the engineering. Which is why it costs significantly more.

That doesn't stop the Panasonic being a superb set - for the money.

[quote user="mgj"]

don't think about the price ... imaginary world ... PX and PZ costs the same

Do you think that PX is slightly better in showing SD sources (common dvd, freeview ...) than PZ ?

[/quote]

Depends on the source - poorer bitrate channels could look worse on the PZ than the PX, because even with the set having a good scaler, it could struggle to get the content to suit its higher resolution.

But if the prices were the same, i'd buy the PZ plasma (not the 37in PZ LCD - would still buy the plasma). But they're not.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Ok who is up to petition for a ban on 24fps questions in this forum, please form an orderly que.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
C'mon it's not a so stupid question ...

In Italy 42PX70 costs 1.200 Euro and 42PZ70 1.700 Euro.

Not a huge difference ...

m.
 

Andy Grange

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[quote user="Andrew Everard"]
B, every time... You'd never get a 40in LCD in the back of a Veyron...
[/quote]

You don't take advantage of many stores free delivery? Pah, I dunno....
 

Andrew Everard

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[quote user="mgj"]
C'mon it's not a so stupid question ...

In Italy 42PX70 costs 1.200 Euro and 42PZ70 1.700 Euro.

Not a huge difference ...

m.[/quote]

Only about 40% - exactly the same as here. £400 buys a lot of DVD player these days...
 

Andrew Everard

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[quote user="Andy Grange"][quote user="Andrew Everard"]
B, every time... You'd never get a 40in LCD in the back of a Veyron...

[/quote]

You don't take advantage of many stores free delivery? Pah, I dunno....[/quote]

Yeah but even if they delivered it, you'd still have a job watching a 40in LCD in the back of a Veyron...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Really, don't want to start it all it over (you can say "hei, you're doing it"), since I think I get my decision ...(ta-ta-ta-ta-ta) ... I'll go buy a 42px70 in the next days.

I trust your opinion and I'm sure I'll watch marvellous jadder free bluray on it.

BUT, I have to say what I read three minutes ago on other two important magazine/rewiers:

Home Cinema Choice
http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/displayreview.php?reviewid=7393

and Tech.co.Uk
http://www.tech.co.uk/home-entertainment/tv/tvs-displays/plasma/review/panasonic-th-42px70

Who both gives 5stars rating to PX70 - Wrote, black on white, "it display very good 1080p/24fps source, but oddly, without sound !!"

It's strange because also Andy Claugh (What Hi-Fi) wrote it times ago.

What do you think about it ? It could be an error in the connection (concerning the input chosen) ?

Or maybe old models did it, and now they resolved the problem .. ?

m.
 

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