Looks like the time is fast approaching where RS is going to have to bite a pretty big bullet and start rationalising the stereo. We've currently got an array of boxes doing pretty much a very similar thing and the recent addition of the Firestone DAC means that it, partnered with the Sony BDP-S370 pretty much outperforms the Marantz. Anybody whose read my posts over the last couple of years might be aware how much I rate the SA7001-KI, but my own mini-listening tests are putting the new upstarts consistently ahead, no matter what I listen to and much to my surprise. On the amplifier side, well, we've now got to the stage where there's so many cables for different things going on, the Sansui is limited by its age and the days before high definition. Its connectivity is good for an amp from 1977 but just now I could really do with everything going through the one place. There's one amp out there - correction, two - that does all that in a way I think I'd like it to be done (Harman's HK990 and Yamaha's RX-V667). Soundwise, the AU-717 remains still mind-bogglingly good to my ears, but I think it has a face that only a mother could love (and that's with me being mum!). Mrs. R_S can't stand it, most others who come round just refer to "all that stuff" in the corner (with their iPod docks...but I know what they mean - a CDP, a DVD player, a big old amp, interconnects everywhere, telly, speakers...) and in the end, it is 34 years old this year. The big Sansuis are picking up good money just now and it's been serviced and recapped in the last year, so it's probably a good time to cash in on it. There's legs in this amp yet for sure and it's not going to go toes up for a long time but it probably needs a more suitable home than our one currently offers it. so, it looks like it's going to be a case of - as the thread title says - "out with the old and in with the new". I'll let you know how it goes.
I'm looking forward to see how this post developes, RS. Inspired by you I got a pair of Mission 752 (Freedom) and the Sansui AU217 as I'm sure you remember...
Anyway i sold these with my Rotel CDP some time ago and regret it ever since. Now i have a Denon UCDM50 or somesuch with Denon speakers but given that I will soon be moving in with my soon to be wife I'll be looking for a nice simple set-up based around the TV and a pair of floorstanding speakers. A single amp to combine it all would be perfect, and I know that I like the same sound 'type' as you do, so all the very best of luck with your search
Anyway i sold these with my Rotel CDP some time ago and regret it ever since. Now i have a Denon UCDM50 or somesuch with Denon speakers but given that I will soon be moving in with my soon to be wife I'll be looking for a nice simple set-up based around the TV and a pair of floorstanding speakers. A single amp to combine it all would be perfect, and I know that I like the same sound 'type' as you do, so all the very best of luck with your search
a hk990 is on my "long term" radar rs, assuming you're going to demo one next to the yamaha i'll also be very interested to hear your views. if you prefer the avr i'll be amazed..
Thanks chaps - no doubt the whole gory story will be laid out here. Ooer!
Of course, much of this is budget driven - I probably won't just rush out and buy one or the other. The Yamaha could be first, but I'm not sure yet. We still have the AU-217 upstairs, so I could sell on the AU-717 and use it as a stop-gap. Decisions, decisions (as ever!), and we'll see.
There are alternatives though: Harman's HK990 has a high current capability of 200amps. Most other manufacturers don't mention that. It's sibling, the HK980, has 80. The HK3490 has around 45amps. No idea about the Yamaha, or indeed about the rest out there. A lot of store's put in the current as well as the wpc for some folk, so I'm trying to get a good idea of a shortlist that accommodates that. I'm aware of Dave's predicament though; all I'd say is there's a 217 on Ebay just now Dave, and it's going for about £30 (not mine I should add)!
Of course, much of this is budget driven - I probably won't just rush out and buy one or the other. The Yamaha could be first, but I'm not sure yet. We still have the AU-217 upstairs, so I could sell on the AU-717 and use it as a stop-gap. Decisions, decisions (as ever!), and we'll see.
There are alternatives though: Harman's HK990 has a high current capability of 200amps. Most other manufacturers don't mention that. It's sibling, the HK980, has 80. The HK3490 has around 45amps. No idea about the Yamaha, or indeed about the rest out there. A lot of store's put in the current as well as the wpc for some folk, so I'm trying to get a good idea of a shortlist that accommodates that. I'm aware of Dave's predicament though; all I'd say is there's a 217 on Ebay just now Dave, and it's going for about £30 (not mine I should add)!
I am kind of in the same boat in that I am using a 22 year old Yamaha AX-300 a really classic amp that looks fantastic today as well as offering a really pure sound and great drive.
In fact I have had a RX-300 receiver since new and despite considering various "upgrades" over the years nothing really moved the game on, not without spending a real fortune anyway. So I bought the AX-300 recently, I had always fancied one because they were well reviewed when new and characteristically similar to the RX.
I currently keep AV and hifi separately in two different rooms however if I invest in new 5.1 speakers I would like to use the front pair for audio too and I would like to see how CDs sound through the BDP-S570 and decent stereo hifi speakers, my current AV amp (HTR5540/RXV430) seems to have a decent DAC, makes me wonder how a contemporary AV amp handles 2 channel when a CD player or BD player is connected via optical SPDIF. I havent got around to putting the BDP-S570 through the AX-300 and I have never connected the Mordaunt Shorts to the AV amp, might be worth trying.
All good fun!
In fact I have had a RX-300 receiver since new and despite considering various "upgrades" over the years nothing really moved the game on, not without spending a real fortune anyway. So I bought the AX-300 recently, I had always fancied one because they were well reviewed when new and characteristically similar to the RX.
I currently keep AV and hifi separately in two different rooms however if I invest in new 5.1 speakers I would like to use the front pair for audio too and I would like to see how CDs sound through the BDP-S570 and decent stereo hifi speakers, my current AV amp (HTR5540/RXV430) seems to have a decent DAC, makes me wonder how a contemporary AV amp handles 2 channel when a CD player or BD player is connected via optical SPDIF. I havent got around to putting the BDP-S570 through the AX-300 and I have never connected the Mordaunt Shorts to the AV amp, might be worth trying.
All good fun!
What about the Rega amplifiers? They're not bad at all, and I suspect certainly much better than the HK 980. I haven't heard then driving Missions - in fact I've not heard Mission speakers for a long time - but they sounded good with the hard to drive Dynaudio Contour series.
Another thought is active speakers.
Another thought is active speakers.
the record spot:
There are alternatives though: Harman's HK990 has a high current capability of 200amps. Most other manufacturers don't mention that.
i'm not sure hk mentioning power output is much use either, it's 100 amps as far as i can tell ( i think they quote the +/- output), they don't say at what frequency it is measured, and it isn't a continuous power output (again, as far as i can tell). i've only ever seen moon (sim audio) quote power figures that are measured over the whole audible frequency range.
There are alternatives though: Harman's HK990 has a high current capability of 200amps. Most other manufacturers don't mention that.
i'm not sure hk mentioning power output is much use either, it's 100 amps as far as i can tell ( i think they quote the +/- output), they don't say at what frequency it is measured, and it isn't a continuous power output (again, as far as i can tell). i've only ever seen moon (sim audio) quote power figures that are measured over the whole audible frequency range.
Blackdawn
Well-known member
Hi Record spot, shame you are thinking of getting rid of the Sansui if you enjoy the sound so much. Have you auditioned the HK990? How does it compare to the sound you are used to?
Craig M.:the record spot:
There are alternatives though: Harman's HK990 has a high current capability of 200amps. Most other manufacturers don't mention that.
i'm not sure hk mentioning power output is much use either, it's 100 amps as far as i can tell ( i think they quote the +/- output), they don't say at what frequency it is measured, and it isn't a continuous power output (again, as far as i can tell). i've only ever seen moon (sim audio) quote power figures that are measured over the whole audible frequency range.
They're quoted at Harman's own site within the tech spec for the amp. I'll change my correction back to what it was I think!
http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=HK%20990
There are alternatives though: Harman's HK990 has a high current capability of 200amps. Most other manufacturers don't mention that.
i'm not sure hk mentioning power output is much use either, it's 100 amps as far as i can tell ( i think they quote the +/- output), they don't say at what frequency it is measured, and it isn't a continuous power output (again, as far as i can tell). i've only ever seen moon (sim audio) quote power figures that are measured over the whole audible frequency range.
They're quoted at Harman's own site within the tech spec for the amp. I'll change my correction back to what it was I think!
http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=HK%20990
Grottyash:
What about the Rega amplifiers? They're not bad at all, and I suspect certainly much better than the HK 980. I haven't heard then driving Missions - in fact I've not heard Mission speakers for a long time - but they sounded good with the hard to drive Dynaudio Contour series.
Another thought is active speakers.
Good points all - actives first: they're absolutely on the cards, but not until I can either get some floorstanders or until the kids have grown up and won't knock some standmounts off the stands. Actives from Genelec would be the ideal, I love their sound, but they won't be happening for various reasons outwith the ones I mentioned here (mostly to do with renting our home for now and not being able to wall mount, or use other means of keeping expensive actives out of the kids reach!).
Rega do the Brio (too weak) and the Mira (an earlier version I heard which left me underwhelmed) and then you're into more box territory to get some decent oomph, so I'd probably leave them off the radar for now.
What about the Rega amplifiers? They're not bad at all, and I suspect certainly much better than the HK 980. I haven't heard then driving Missions - in fact I've not heard Mission speakers for a long time - but they sounded good with the hard to drive Dynaudio Contour series.
Another thought is active speakers.
Good points all - actives first: they're absolutely on the cards, but not until I can either get some floorstanders or until the kids have grown up and won't knock some standmounts off the stands. Actives from Genelec would be the ideal, I love their sound, but they won't be happening for various reasons outwith the ones I mentioned here (mostly to do with renting our home for now and not being able to wall mount, or use other means of keeping expensive actives out of the kids reach!).
Rega do the Brio (too weak) and the Mira (an earlier version I heard which left me underwhelmed) and then you're into more box territory to get some decent oomph, so I'd probably leave them off the radar for now.
Hi RS,
Sensible decision, although I find time and again that - at least for me - 'rationalise' and 'hifi' just don't work together. I've experienced that when I went from vintage gear to relatively modern gear. The sound, the ease of use, reliability etc. all got better. But I sometimes think I would have been just as happy listening to my former Thorens TD 160 and/or Pioneer SA 7500 II. Well at least I've got my headphones plugged in to an ancient Philips CD 304 right now.
Of course box count is a different story altogether. Although you probably secretly love the bits, pieces and wires as much as the next forumite.
Let us know how you get on!
Jack
EDIT: I know, I know, I'm plugging my own amp, but: don't underestimate the Brio's ability.
Sensible decision, although I find time and again that - at least for me - 'rationalise' and 'hifi' just don't work together. I've experienced that when I went from vintage gear to relatively modern gear. The sound, the ease of use, reliability etc. all got better. But I sometimes think I would have been just as happy listening to my former Thorens TD 160 and/or Pioneer SA 7500 II. Well at least I've got my headphones plugged in to an ancient Philips CD 304 right now.
Of course box count is a different story altogether. Although you probably secretly love the bits, pieces and wires as much as the next forumite.
Let us know how you get on!
Jack
EDIT: I know, I know, I'm plugging my own amp, but: don't underestimate the Brio's ability.
Blackdawn:
Hi Record spot, shame you are thinking of getting rid of the Sansui if you enjoy the sound so much. Have you auditioned the HK990? How does it compare to the sound you are used to?
I have as it happens - heard it last summer when the 717 was in being fixed and it stacked up very well. There's an understated, effortless sound to it - it's got plenty of control under the bonnet, but doesn't flex its muscles in a brusing kind of way. The connectivity is superb at the back so it can fulfill all of the requirements I need I think. Price could be an issue (£850 in the Home Cinema Centre) but there's a 2 year warranty with it.
Hi Record spot, shame you are thinking of getting rid of the Sansui if you enjoy the sound so much. Have you auditioned the HK990? How does it compare to the sound you are used to?
I have as it happens - heard it last summer when the 717 was in being fixed and it stacked up very well. There's an understated, effortless sound to it - it's got plenty of control under the bonnet, but doesn't flex its muscles in a brusing kind of way. The connectivity is superb at the back so it can fulfill all of the requirements I need I think. Price could be an issue (£850 in the Home Cinema Centre) but there's a 2 year warranty with it.
the record spot:Craig M.:the record spot:
There are alternatives though: Harman's HK990 has a high current capability of 200amps. Most other manufacturers don't mention that.
i'm not sure hk mentioning power output is much use either, it's 100 amps as far as i can tell ( i think they quote the +/- output), they don't say at what frequency it is measured, and it isn't a continuous power output (again, as far as i can tell). i've only ever seen moon (sim audio) quote power figures that are measured over the whole audible frequency range.
They're quoted at Harman's own site within the tech spec for the amp. I'll change my correction back to what it was I think!
http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=HK%20990
yes, my point was more although it's great that harman provide power specs, it's difficult to compare those figures to another amps power figures as they don't all use the same way of measuring. in my limited understanding saying the 990 has 200 amp output would mean it had ñ400, hk say it has ñ200amp or (if you want to leave the ñ out of it) 100 amp, just semantics really. what makes it harder to compare the 990s output, is that the quoted figure (ñ200) is burst power (i think, can't find anything definitive), whereas most other manufacturers quote continuous power.
having said that, it does seem a bit of a beast
- has it got cooling fans on the heat sinks, or are they something else?
There are alternatives though: Harman's HK990 has a high current capability of 200amps. Most other manufacturers don't mention that.
i'm not sure hk mentioning power output is much use either, it's 100 amps as far as i can tell ( i think they quote the +/- output), they don't say at what frequency it is measured, and it isn't a continuous power output (again, as far as i can tell). i've only ever seen moon (sim audio) quote power figures that are measured over the whole audible frequency range.
They're quoted at Harman's own site within the tech spec for the amp. I'll change my correction back to what it was I think!
http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=HK%20990
yes, my point was more although it's great that harman provide power specs, it's difficult to compare those figures to another amps power figures as they don't all use the same way of measuring. in my limited understanding saying the 990 has 200 amp output would mean it had ñ400, hk say it has ñ200amp or (if you want to leave the ñ out of it) 100 amp, just semantics really. what makes it harder to compare the 990s output, is that the quoted figure (ñ200) is burst power (i think, can't find anything definitive), whereas most other manufacturers quote continuous power.
having said that, it does seem a bit of a beast
Ah yes, got you now. My limited understanding of the topic tells me (through various other people) that "high current" is a good thing in amps. Allied to the wpc, it seems to be more of an indicator or the abilities of the amp to deliver a good output to a speaker and handle difficult peaks and troughs in the music while doing so. Of course, the listening side has to come into in - personal taste and all that. Spec-wise though, this one carries the lot for me, probably for a long time to come. You're right though; total beast of an amp - 20kgs or thereabouts, so a bit heavier than the Sansui (only 18 kilos) - mind yer backs!
chebby
Well-known member
The scale of spending (for the HK amp) added to a sale of your present amp & speakers (& DAC if it's not too late to return it) would get you very close to the cost of a Neutron 5 2.1 system (with 300watts total power).
This would have all the digital (and analogue) inputs you require and would - surely - answer all of the domestic/aesthetic concerns of Mrs R_S that you described in your original post.
This would have all the digital (and analogue) inputs you require and would - surely - answer all of the domestic/aesthetic concerns of Mrs R_S that you described in your original post.
RS, are you planning to build your new system using your existing Missions?
I'd have the Neutron 5 2.1 in a jiffy if they were a pair of compact floorstanders (and providing i liked the sound)...
I'd have the Neutron 5 2.1 in a jiffy if they were a pair of compact floorstanders (and providing i liked the sound)...
Hi Dave - yes, I specifically didn't mention speakers as they're not going to change for some time. At least until the children are old enough to not inflict major damage either by accident or design!
The question sometimes crops up "why not wall mount them?" and this isn't practical at home for a number of reasons:
i) it's not our house to wall mount anything to as we rent currently,
ii) we have a wide bay window leaving only a small space on which to attach speakers to, with an added complication that the chimney breast sticks out down one side of the room, hence another issue,
iii) I don't want a sub, which to my way of thinking removes one box but merely adds another - and on the floor! Ideal for a good kicking from the children or an expensive scratchboard for the cat. It's also another box which just replaces the box removed elsewhere.
Other than that, I would be interested in active floorstanders and a pair of Meridians cropped up at a good price the other day, but I opted against them. Were it not for the domestic situation, I'd have actives at the drop of a hat. When the family's older though...
The question sometimes crops up "why not wall mount them?" and this isn't practical at home for a number of reasons:
i) it's not our house to wall mount anything to as we rent currently,
ii) we have a wide bay window leaving only a small space on which to attach speakers to, with an added complication that the chimney breast sticks out down one side of the room, hence another issue,
iii) I don't want a sub, which to my way of thinking removes one box but merely adds another - and on the floor! Ideal for a good kicking from the children or an expensive scratchboard for the cat. It's also another box which just replaces the box removed elsewhere.
Other than that, I would be interested in active floorstanders and a pair of Meridians cropped up at a good price the other day, but I opted against them. Were it not for the domestic situation, I'd have actives at the drop of a hat. When the family's older though...
chebby:
The scale of spending (for the HK amp) added to a sale of your present amp & speakers (& DAC if it's not too late to return it) would get you very close to the cost of a Neutron 5 2.1 system (with 300watts total power).
This would have all the digital (and analogue) inputs you require and would - surely - answer all of the domestic/aesthetic concerns of Mrs R_S that you described in your original post.
Indeed, all but for the ones outlined to Dave above!
The scale of spending (for the HK amp) added to a sale of your present amp & speakers (& DAC if it's not too late to return it) would get you very close to the cost of a Neutron 5 2.1 system (with 300watts total power).
This would have all the digital (and analogue) inputs you require and would - surely - answer all of the domestic/aesthetic concerns of Mrs R_S that you described in your original post.
Indeed, all but for the ones outlined to Dave above!
the record spot:Hi Dave - yes, I specifically didn't mention speakers as they're not going to change for some time. At least until the children are old enough to not inflict major damage either by accident or design!
The question sometimes crops up "why not wall mount them?" and this isn't practical at home for a number of reasons: i) it's not our house to wall mount anything to as we rent currently,
ii) we have a wide bay window leaving only a small space on which to attach speakers to, with an added complication that the chimney breast sticks out down one side of the room, hence another issue,
iii) I don't want a sub, which to my way of thinking removes one box but merely adds another - and on the floor! Ideal for a good kicking from the children or an expensive scratchboard for the cat. It's also another box which just replaces the box removed elsewhere.
Other than that, I would be interested in active floorstanders and a pair of Meridians cropped up at a good price the other day, but I opted against them. Were it not for the domestic situation, I'd have actives at the drop of a hat. When the family's older though...
I'm patiently waiting for a pair of 752 Freedoms in mint condition to appear on the 'bay, preferably in the light oak finish, though pristine black ash would do as well, then I'm going to find a suitable amp and build a simple system around that (probably a universal disc player, a Freeview HD box, TV and Wii, and possibly a squeezebox/AE type device and I think that would meet all my needs for the foreseeable future).
And the missions definitely have GFAF, soon to be WAF type approval!
The question sometimes crops up "why not wall mount them?" and this isn't practical at home for a number of reasons: i) it's not our house to wall mount anything to as we rent currently,
ii) we have a wide bay window leaving only a small space on which to attach speakers to, with an added complication that the chimney breast sticks out down one side of the room, hence another issue,
iii) I don't want a sub, which to my way of thinking removes one box but merely adds another - and on the floor! Ideal for a good kicking from the children or an expensive scratchboard for the cat. It's also another box which just replaces the box removed elsewhere.
Other than that, I would be interested in active floorstanders and a pair of Meridians cropped up at a good price the other day, but I opted against them. Were it not for the domestic situation, I'd have actives at the drop of a hat. When the family's older though...
I'm patiently waiting for a pair of 752 Freedoms in mint condition to appear on the 'bay, preferably in the light oak finish, though pristine black ash would do as well, then I'm going to find a suitable amp and build a simple system around that (probably a universal disc player, a Freeview HD box, TV and Wii, and possibly a squeezebox/AE type device and I think that would meet all my needs for the foreseeable future).
And the missions definitely have GFAF, soon to be WAF type approval!
chebby
Well-known member
the record spot:Indeed, all but for the ones outlined to Dave above!
I don't get how floorstanders (whether active or not) are immune from the activities of cats & children, whereas standmounts (or a floor-standing sub) are not.
I don't get how floorstanders (whether active or not) are immune from the activities of cats & children, whereas standmounts (or a floor-standing sub) are not.
chebby:
the record spot:Indeed, all but for the ones outlined to Dave above!
I don't get how floorstanders (whether active or not) are immune from the activities of cats & children, whereas standmounts (or a floor-standing sub) are not.
I imagine the main worry is a child pulling on the speaker stand and the speaker falling off the top plate, whereas a floorstander, being of unit construction and uniform width and lower centre of mass, is, while not completely immune, at least less susceptible.
For me, I prefer the aesthetics of floorstanders and the wider frequency range possible (in general).
the record spot:Indeed, all but for the ones outlined to Dave above!
I don't get how floorstanders (whether active or not) are immune from the activities of cats & children, whereas standmounts (or a floor-standing sub) are not.
I imagine the main worry is a child pulling on the speaker stand and the speaker falling off the top plate, whereas a floorstander, being of unit construction and uniform width and lower centre of mass, is, while not completely immune, at least less susceptible.
For me, I prefer the aesthetics of floorstanders and the wider frequency range possible (in general).
I agree Chebby! We don't have cats but a dog and we foster children, you just tell them to not touch and so far we have had no problems and have had 17 children through the house in the last few years.
matthewpiano
Well-known member
Surprised to see you are considering parting with the Sansui RS, but I can see the sense behind your reasons. Have you thought about a Marantz PM8003?
Blackdawn
Well-known member
I don't think its worth getting rid of one really good large, heavy amp and replace with another 1. If your going down the AV route, an AV receiver/amp would be the best thing. If not then just go for actives straight away. If you are happy with the sound through the Spitfire 2 and you want to keep the Missions you may as well just keep the 717 as well and resist the nagging. Maybe just sell the Marantz cd player if its not getting used. Have you looked at the Nad C375BEE, Yamaha AS1000 or 2000? Sounds like your still set on getting the HK 990 though. Does 800w power consumption put you off?!
Forgive me for playing devil's advocate, RS, but have you thought of just saying to hell with the risk, buying some actives of some sort and relying on the accidental damage cover on your house insurance? Provided you don't have them positioned freely in the room I can't imagine you'd have a problem.
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