Question How can I get clearer, punchier bass out of my Dali Oberon 5s, Rega Brio and Thorens TD160?

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Gray

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Right now, so hear it, I have to turn it up to louder than I like (enough that you'd have to raise your voice when talking).
I've just read your original post Rick and the bit I've quoted really stood out to me.
Loud enough that you need to raise your voice.....when TALKING 🤔

That's not loud. As far as I'm concerned, that's not really loud enough to hear the best that any speakers can do.

I'm attached to neighbours, although I've deliberately kept the hi-fi physically as far from them as I can. The point is, I don't play excessively loud, but no way is talking possible at my normal listening level - I wouldn't dream of judging the performance of my speakers at a level that would allow normal talking in the same room.
(I probably wouldn't own a hi-fi if it could never go louder than that).

I hope you achieve what you're after, but I have to say that I'm not surprised you've found higher volume necessary up to now 👍
 
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My2Cents

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It sounds to me like your system IS capable of producing the bass the way you want it, but only when you turn the volume up? It takes a certain amount of power to drive the speakers so that they sound their best (along with positioning and room treatment).
A sub will enhance everything below the crossover frequency that you set (usually around 100 Hz) and will likely do nothing to make the bass sound 'tight' at low volume, 'tightening up' the bass at low volume levels (if I understand your desire correctly) would require enhancing a much higher frequency range.
Your speakers probably are reproducing this already but the bass is getting lost in the room. I'll bet if you go to another room and listen (perhaps the bathroom - depending on the layout of your apartment) you will actually hear that bass that you think is missing.
A heavy, thick room sized rug, some wall treatment and some bass traps may help a lot (if you can fit them into your decor).
Bass frequencies travel a long way and go right through walls like a hot knife through butter, it's only when you crank up the volume that you actually start to hear that bass in the listening position if the room is bad. Your neighbors may well be hearing the 'missing' bass that you crave, even when you have the volume down low.
Another option (which is considered heresy by Hi Fi aficionados) is to use a graphic equalizer at low volume to enhance the frequencies that you seem to be missing.
 
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SloRick

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https://www.thomann.de/gb/isoacoustics_iso_puck_mini_set.htm


https://www.futureshop.co.uk/isoacoustics-orea-series-isolation-feet (you need 4 pr speaker)

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/isoacoustics-gaia-series-threaded-isolation-feet (you need 4 pr speakaer)
Thanks. Those GAIA's aren't cheap. About as much as getting a subwoofer
 

Jasonovich

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It sounds to me like your system IS capable of producing the bass the way you want it, but only when you turn the volume up? It takes a certain amount of power to drive the speakers so that they sound their best (along with positioning and room treatment).
A sub will enhance everything below the crossover frequency that you set (usually around 100 Hz) and will likely do nothing to make the bass sound 'tight' at low volume, 'tightening up' the bass at low volume levels (if I understand your desire correctly) would require enhancing a much higher frequency range.
Your speakers probably are reproducing this already but the bass is getting lost in the room. I'll bet if you go to another room and listen (perhaps the bathroom - depending on the layout of your apartment) you will actually hear that bass that you think is missing.
A heavy, thick room sized rug, some wall treatment and some bass traps may help a lot (if you can fit them into your decor).
Bass frequencies travel a long way and go right through walls like a hot knife through butter, it's only when you crank up the volume that you actually start to hear that bass in the listening position if the room is bad. Your neighbors may well be hearing the 'missing' bass that you crave, even when you have the volume down low.
Another option (which is considered heresy by Hi Fi aficionados) is to use a graphic equalizer at low volume to enhance the frequencies that you seem to be missing.
A graphic equalizer at low volume will enhance the frequencies but it will also make the speakers sound more artificial.
 
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So: I was going to follow all of this helpful advice and get a small REL subwoofer, when I found out that the Rega Brio does not have a subwoofer output! Apparently there are way to hack it, but not sure if I want to mess with that (in my early hi-fi days in college I managed to short an amp by criss crossing the speaker wires :)
AFAIK a REL subwoofer will also have high level inputs. It’s not a ‘hack’, they are designed like that. Take a look at their website and read the instructions. You simply use the speaker outputs that every amplifier has.

 

Fandango Andy

Well-known member
So: I was going to follow all of this helpful advice and get a small REL subwoofer, when I found out that the Rega Brio does not have a subwoofer output! Apparently there are way to hack it, but not sure if I want to mess with that (in my early hi-fi days in college I managed to short an amp by criss crossing the speaker wires :)

As nopiano said, it isn't a hack.

Some people advocate using the high level input on a sub even if there is a low level option. This video gets a little technical, but explains it well:

View: https://youtu.be/uiVXXeINRog?si=puw6dZBnjo3afFfF
 

SloRick

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AFAIK a REL subwoofer will also have high level inputs. It’s not a ‘hack’, they are designed like that. Take a look at their website and read the instructions. You simply use the speaker outputs that every amplifier has.

Thanks. I am still unclear and don’t want to short out my amp. It looks like you simply attach the subwoofer cable wires to the red speaker outputs, the same ones which are also already connected to your normal speakers. So two connections (REL subwoofer and Dali speaker) going from the same output? Is that right? And it won’t short it out? Or is a special extra piece of equipment required?
I have a chance to audition a used REL t/5, so want to get this right before I do. Thanks.
 
Thanks. I am still unclear and don’t want to short out my amp. It looks like you simply attach the subwoofer cable wires to the red speaker outputs, the same ones which are also already connected to your normal speakers. So two connections (REL subwoofer and Dali speaker) going from the same output? Is that right? And it won’t short it out? Or is a special extra piece of equipment required?
I have a chance to audition a used REL t/5, so want to get this right before I do. Thanks.
No problem. As I was trying to encourage you to look further, REL explain everything on their website. Here are videos covering anything you might wish to know.

 

SloRick

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No problem. As I was trying to encourage you to look further, REL explain everything on their website. Here are videos covering anything you might wish to know.

Thanks, I looked at those but am still unclear.
My Rega Brio only has one set of connections for speakers - four outputs, two red two black, which I have connected to the Dalis with banana plugs. Am I supposed to attach the REL to those SAME outputs (the red ones)? Wouldn't that cause a short circuit?
Or is the assumption that I have an A and B set of speaker outputs, and I connect the main speakers to A and the subwoofer to B?
Sorry for being dense, but I don't want to make an incorrect assumption and then short my amp...
 

SloRick

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Try the REL YouTube channel. They go into very specific detail as to how to connect using their dedicated cable. These two should be what you need.

Connecting to class AB e.g. your Brio.

View: https://youtu.be/NR52BRojgAk?si=eomuNbfCjZlIq0IC


Connecting tips, based on your existing speaker connection, e.g. banana.

View: https://youtu.be/bb3XrwUR7gU?si=_cjpYU49PXibzSFZ
Thanks. So its sounds like you have both the REL and the normal speakers connected to the same output - yes?
 

OBXTom

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I think you might need to change your speakers, or dare I say it because others will, get a subwoofer.
I didn’t see a subwoofer listed. I use a Yamaha V485 Receiver 5.1. and. 2 Warefedale Towers, and 10” RSL Subwoofer. I switch the Receiver to 2.1- 2 Towers and the Subwoofer. It sounds good to my ears and the sub justs thumps along
 
Thanks, I looked at those but am still unclear.
My Rega Brio only has one set of connections for speakers - four outputs, two red two black, which I have connected to the Dalis with banana plugs. Am I supposed to attach the REL to those SAME outputs (the red ones)? Wouldn't that cause a short circuit?
Or is the assumption that I have an A and B set of speaker outputs, and I connect the main speakers to A and the subwoofer to B?
Sorry for being dense, but I don't want to make an incorrect assumption and then short my amp...
You connect to the same terminals as your main speakers. It doesn’t short anything - it’s just more speakers!

Having re-read your posts I see you had a previous shorting incident, but as the nice man from REL explains the high level connection is their preferred one.
 
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jarmez

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Hi folks. So my system is pretty good, but I'm missing the clear, defined, punchy bass guitar sound at low volumes that I like. Right now, so hear it, I have to turn it up to louder than I like (enough that you'd have to raise your voice when talking). I'm not looking for a boom boom thump thump, but being able to hear the electric bass guitar clearly at low volumes. I'm running Dali Oberon 5s, a Rega Brio, and Thorens TD160 turntable (M2 blue), playing mostly old rock and soul records. The room is kind of a standard apartment living room, maybe 20 by 30 feet or so, with old wooden floors. I've tried different things with the speakers, but currently have them on little cork and rubber furniture pads.

I don't really understand the dynamics of this, and seem to get different answers from everybody. I've found what I'm looking for on different friend's systems, one with old JBLs with 12 inch speakers (somebody told that bigger speakers are better for low volumes and don't actually require much power). But I've also heard it on bookshelf sized B&Ws on speaker stands. And sometimes it comes out that way in a car stereo or good headphones.

So, Hi-Fi experts: how do I get there? is there something I can do with my existing system (spikes, stands, further or closer to the wall, etc)? Do I need to upgrade the speakers somehow, maybe to Monitor Audios or something? Or would traditional box speakers do a. better job than these floor standing ones? Upgrade to a tube amp?

Again, looking for clear, punchy sound/defined bass guitar, at low volumes.

Thanks for your inputs.
I run the Oberon 5's with a very similar setup - Arcam A5 (same rated 8ohm output as the Brio), and a Project Debut Carbon Evo with M2 Red. I don't seem to have this problem - for whatever reason, probably room placement though I would guess. I have a high ceiling room with carpet covered floors (old wood underneath) and I would call it quite a resonant room.
I think the issue here is placement. I have a very rectangular lounge, and my setup is on one side of this with one speaker closer to a corner - this may add bass reflection. I also have my speakers some distance from the wall - probably a good 40cm.
I would also probably get rid of the cork/ rubber mats/pads and instead look to couple the speakers to the floor with something more solid - spikes on coins or something similar. Plenty of options here.
For a reasonably sized room those speakers should be sufficient though. Also, if you are new to hifi check the polaroty of the speakers, this is done by checking that speaker cables are wired to correct terminals at both ends. i.e. positive to positive, negative to negative.
 

SloRick

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I run the Oberon 5's with a very similar setup - Arcam A5 (same rated 8ohm output as the Brio), and a Project Debut Carbon Evo with M2 Red. I don't seem to have this problem - for whatever reason, probably room placement though I would guess. I have a high ceiling room with carpet covered floors (old wood underneath) and I would call it quite a resonant room.
I think the issue here is placement. I have a very rectangular lounge, and my setup is on one side of this with one speaker closer to a corner - this may add bass reflection. I also have my speakers some distance from the wall - probably a good 40cm.
I would also probably get rid of the cork/ rubber mats/pads and instead look to couple the speakers to the floor with something more solid - spikes on coins or something similar. Plenty of options here.
For a reasonably sized room those speakers should be sufficient though. Also, if you are new to hifi check the polaroty of the speakers, this is done by checking that speaker cables are wired to correct terminals at both ends. i.e. positive to positive, negative to negative.
Thanks. That’s very helpful. I moved the speakers into a corner and put on spikes. The polarity is correct
 

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