No such thing as the perfect amp.

[Electro]

It really does not exsist, an amp that can play all types of music the way the user would like it to sound....there is'nt one. an amp that can thump out the beats of Kanya West, sooth you with the voice of Nat King Cole, ravage you with the scream of Black Sabbath or move you with the genius of Mozart - you can have one or two genres covered but not all. Its so fustrating or am I wrong?

Well my amps are perfect :bounce: :cheer: IMO of course

They play all types of music without bias, they drive my speakers from whisper quiet to live music levels without audible distortion or clipping .

The power amp has a very large power supply ( 1300 VA ) 100 amp peak current delivery and is stable into all loads down to 0.5 of an ohm , it can deliver 120 wpc continuously into 8 ohms and has extremely high transient power delivery that is many times the continuous output .

The pre - amp appears to have a transparent sound and all the controls that are needed .

They have given me 12 years of wonderful beautiful music that has been trouble free and far beyond my expectations so what more could I ask for ?

 

[Native_bon]

Also, whilst we're getting around to reproducing 'live', I would mirror davedotco's response and say that reproducing 'live' event sound is possible given the right environment and equipment. An experiment in the Sydney Opera House proved this (unfortunately couldn't find the link).

Getting the same effect in the home is another matter entirely, but the prodigous use of some DSP might help achieve something close with a multi channel system. The real problem is to recreate the 'sound' of the venue. A live acoustic set of a couple of musicians in a very 'intimate' venue would be possible though, as it would be easier to recreate in a home environment.

Quite true. The scale of the music you are trying to reproduce is a massive factor. With a normal (good) system I would not even attempt to reproduce large scale music. In fact I would go as far as to say that I find it impossible to listen with any intent to such music in my home environment, it just sounds wrong.

Some years ago I had a client who had a big house overlooking the heath, his main room was about 40 x 30 ft, with a corner missing making a very fat L shape.

I had supplied him with a nice Roksan player and seviced and set it up in situ on a number of occasions. The amps were mid range Naim and not the latest spec driving a pair of Tannoys. But what Tannoys they were, 15 inch Reds in York enclosures, one of the best of their type.

He was particularly fond of lieder, and the sound of Fischer Dieskau and acompanying piano was as 'live' as anything I have heard in a home environment.

So if the purpose is to recreate the life enviroment of the music, why do audiophiles turn thier noses up to AV music... We moved from mono to stereo. Why must we stick to 2 channel music.

 

[BigH]

[/quote]

So if the purpose is to recreate the life enviroment of the music, why do audiophiles turn thier noses up to AV music... We moved from mono to stereo. Why must we stick to 2 channel music.

[/quote]

Because they are living in the past.

 

[Overdose]

So if the purpose is to recreate the life enviroment of the music, why do audiophiles turn thier noses up to AV music... We moved from mono to stereo. Why must we stick to 2 channel music.

You would need to speak to an audiophile to have your answer, but it might be in part that music is largely recorded in stereo with the musicians 'soundstage' laid out in front. The musicians do not surround you when playing.

I would expect multi channel systems useful only to recreate the ambience of a particular live venue, where the use of active DSP would help to recreate this effect and it would not be possible to do so without it. Generally though, multi channel systems do not offer much, if anything, over a stereo system with your average recording, but they come into their own where special effects are evident.

 

[Native_bon]

So if the purpose is to recreate the life enviroment of the music, why do audiophiles turn thier noses up to AV music... We moved from mono to stereo. Why must we stick to 2 channel music.

You would need to speak to an audiophile to have your answer, but it might be in part that music is largely recorded in stereo with the musicians 'soundstage' laid out in front. The musicians do not surround you when playing.

I would expect multi channel systems useful only to recreate the ambience of a particular live venue, where the use of active DSP would help to recreate this effect and it would not be possible to do so without it. Generally though, multi channel systems do not offer much, if anything, over a stereo system with your average recording, but they come into their own where special effects are evident.

spoken like a true audiophile. Did you say ask the Audiophile...? :rofl:

 

[davedotco]

So if the purpose is to recreate the life enviroment of the music, why do audiophiles turn thier noses up to AV music... We moved from mono to stereo. Why must we stick to 2 channel music.

[/quote]

Because they are living in the past.

[/quote]

Just out of interest what do you play on your multi channel system/

 

[Overdose]

So if the purpose is to recreate the life enviroment of the music, why do audiophiles turn thier noses up to AV music... We moved from mono to stereo. Why must we stick to 2 channel music.

You would need to speak to an audiophile to have your answer, but it might be in part that music is largely recorded in stereo with the musicians 'soundstage' laid out in front. The musicians do not surround you when playing.

I would expect multi channel systems useful only to recreate the ambience of a particular live venue, where the use of active DSP would help to recreate this effect and it would not be possible to do so without it. Generally though, multi channel systems do not offer much, if anything, over a stereo system with your average recording, but they come into their own where special effects are evident.

spoken like a true audiophile. Did you say ask the Audiophile...? :rofl:

I take it by the ROFL thingy, that you might disagree.

What are your thoughts on multichannel systems playing back a stereo recording in 'surround' sound?

Personally I find it hardly 'hifi' if a surround sound effect has been super imposed on a stereo recording. When have you ever gone to a gig where you sit in amongst a band, with the musicians playing all around you? Also when at a gig, when have you ever seen anything other than a typical stereo PA system array either side of the stage?

Again, I would suggest that multichannel music systems have their place, but are only really needed if some special effects or a recreation of ambience is required.

 

[BigH]

So if the purpose is to recreate the life enviroment of the music, why do audiophiles turn thier noses up to AV music... We moved from mono to stereo. Why must we stick to 2 channel music.

To be fair its probably partly due to lack of decent recordings, yes there are some like Wish You Were Here but I think they is a rather limited range.

 

[davedotco]

So if the purpose is to recreate the life enviroment of the music, why do audiophiles turn thier noses up to AV music... We moved from mono to stereo. Why must we stick to 2 channel music.

To be fair its probably partly due to lack of decent recordings, yes there are some like Wish You Were Here but I think they is a rather limited range.

Do you have the SACD?

 

[BigH]

So if the purpose is to recreate the life enviroment of the music, why do audiophiles turn thier noses up to AV music... We moved from mono to stereo. Why must we stick to 2 channel music.

To be fair its probably partly due to lack of decent recordings, yes there are some like Wish You Were Here but I think they is a rather limited range.

Do you have the SACD?

No. There is so little music I want available on SACD and the cost too high, rather pay a £1-£2 for cds than £20-£50.

 

[Ajani]

Largely disagree.

It is actually quite easy to make recorded acoustic music sound live, given a good recording of course.

Firstly and most importantly, you need the space, preferably something approximating the venue for the recording. Next you need amplifiers and speakers that can handle the dynamics and shear volume (dynamic range) of the original recording in what is very likely a large space.

Expensive and impractical without doubt but difficult, no.

Blaming hifi components for this failure to sound live is simply wrong, other factors are far more important.

Agreed. One of the biggest factors that is too often ignored is the recording itself.

Why do people assume that any recording fully captured the live event?

I suspect that many times when persons claim that products with pancake flat frequency responses, sound "bright" that it is really due to the quality of the recording and not the HiFi system.

Regardless of whether someone listens to SACD, Vinyl or even Reel to Reel, I doubt that a perfect recording exists. So how can we fairly compare HiFi playback to the live event, if the recording we use is in anyway compromised?

 

[davedotco]

So if the purpose is to recreate the life enviroment of the music, why do audiophiles turn thier noses up to AV music... We moved from mono to stereo. Why must we stick to 2 channel music.

To be fair its probably partly due to lack of decent recordings, yes there are some like Wish You Were Here but I think they is a rather limited range.

Do you have the SACD?

No. There is so little music I want available on SACD and the cost too high, rather pay a £1-£2 for cds than £20-£50.

Then of course you do not get the sound quality.

Most of the 5.1 surround sound discs I have heard have been recorded in Dolby Digital and were without exception, excrable.

 

[BigH]

Then of course you do not get the sound quality.

Most of the 5.1 surround sound discs I have heard have been recorded in Dolby Digital and were without exception, excrable.

Not sure what you mean, are you saying cds are not good enough?

Then you say 5.1 is excrable, whatever that means?

 

[davedotco]

Then of course you do not get the sound quality.

Most of the 5.1 surround sound discs I have heard have been recorded in Dolby Digital and were without exception, excrable.

Not sure what you mean, are you saying cds are not good enough?

Then you say 5.1 is excrable, whatever that means?

We are taking about surround sound, a typical album in 5.1 format requires about 2 - 3 GB of data at cd quality, a CD can only hold 650 - 700MB so you need to put it on a DVD which has 4.7GB.

Ideally a DVD-A disc (no video) would have a 5.1 recording at CD quality and a stereo recording in high resolution, typicall 24/96. The idea of DVDs without video never really took off, so although some top quality DVD - A discs do exist, they are pretty rare. There are more hi-quality SACd's I believe, but still quite rare.

The most common format for 5.1 recordings is on DVD - V discs, ie regular movie format. This usually means a video recording of a concert with the soundtrack recorded in 5.1 Dolby Digital. To my mind the music quality is awful, (excrable), about on a par with low bitrate MP3s.

 

[BigH]

I think you mean execrable.

 

[davedotco]

I think you mean execrable.

Thank you, my grammar is usually ok but my spelling has always been erratic, at best........ :?

 

[Native_bon]

All am saying is we are stock in our ways.. Has anyone really done a blind test of an Av amp & 2 channel of the same price piont & see if they can tell which is which...?... Cause I have in shop & the shop keepers could not tell which amp was playing

A) Av amp Marantz SR7007

B) creek destiny 2 intergrated amp

C) speakers KEF R700 floor standing

D) Cyrus Transport

D) Dac:: AUDIO LAB M DAC

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Stock?

Yes What HiFi did that, and everyone preferred the stereo amp over the AV one. I seem to remember bigboss(?) was part of the test.

 

[Native_bon]

How long ago was this done..? Also most of the time advantages are always played towards the 2 channel amps in terms of speaker choice . Well in my case most of time on one could tell which amp was playing.

 

[BigH]

I think David at Frank's has an AV Pioneer he uses.

 

[CnoEvil]

.....maybe not, but the MF AMS 35i gets closer than you'd expect. :shifty:

 

[Macspur]

.....maybe not, but the MF AMS 35i gets closer than you'd expect. :shifty:

No, no, no the Accuphase does! lol!

 

[CnoEvil]

.....maybe not, but the MF AMS 35i gets closer than you'd expect. :shifty:

No, no, no the Accuphase does! lol!

Lets just call it an AMS Accuphuxman 35i!

 

[plastic penguin]

@Cno and Mac

If your amps didn't I'd sling them back... thru the window.

 

[CnoEvil]

@Cno and Mac

If your amps didn't I'd sling them back... thru the window.

You wouldn't, you know........they're too hot and weigh a ton.