No such thing as the perfect amp.

[Thompsonuxb]

It really does not exsist, an amp that can play all types of music the way the user would like it to sound....there is'nt one.

an amp that can thump out the beats of Kanya West, sooth you with the voice of Nat King Cole, ravage you with the scream of Black Sabbath or move you with the genius of Mozart - you can have one or two genres covered but not all. Its so fustrating or am I wrong?

 

[lindsayt]

I agree. Totally. I'd extend that to every hi-fi component I've ever heard. No single component is best at everything. There's always something else that's better in at least one sonic respect. Although you can get components that are pretty good all-rounders.

 

[busb]

It really does not exsist, an amp that can play all types of music the way the user would like it to sound....there is'nt one. an amp that can thump out the beats of Kanya West, sooth you with the voice of Nat King Cole, ravage you with the scream of Black Sabbath or move you with the genius of Mozart - you can have one or two genres covered but not all. Its so fustrating or am I wrong?

Are you wrong? I'd say yes & no.I'd go with the idea that some tracks may sound better through one amplifier than another but I'd personally prefer an amp or indeed, an entire system to not colour the sound in anyway. A system should not convey any emotion (apart from satisfaction, of course!) in itself but pass on whatever emotion is with the music without fear or favour. Colouration will sometimes enhance our enjoyment of some recordings but detract from others. I also prefer (where possible) for all parts of a system be fairly neutral - I just don't like the idea of matching a "bright" amp with "warm" speakers, for instance. Doing so works but makes replacing any item in that chain all the more difficult.

No system s going to be "perfect" but chasing pefection as a goal is surely missing the point of listening to music in the 1st place? There's has to be a point in the pursuit of musical enjoyment where good is indeed good enough where are own imagination ices the cake. We otherwise fall into the trap where the equipment becomes the end rather than just the means. It's them notes that count! Did I just write that? I'm off to bed!

 

[lindsayt]

busb, trouble is, every system I've heard colours the sound in some way. Some are more tonally neautral than others to the extent that different recordings can be more coloured overall than the system itself. Tonal colouration is only one small part of the overall sonic jigsaw. There's also dynamics, clarity, detail, soundstaging, pitch accuracy, pitch stability - all of which may be compromised to a greater or lesser extent.

 

[danrv]

Although you can get components that are pretty good all-rounders.

My Roksan Kandy pair is just that. Sounds great no matter what I play.

 

[hoopsontoast]

I dunno, the Audion Sterling I had sounded pretty good with everything, and the Audionote Oto. Both drove relaively normal speakers to good levels in my room and could not really fault it. Given senstive enough speakers, the Decware Zen did just about everything I need.

 

[chebby]

Any competent amplifier should be able to deal with any genre of music in a satisfactory manner.

No such thing as a good amp that 'does' one genre better than others because that would make it a bad amp.

 

[lindsayt]

Then it that case, every amp I've ever heard is a bad amp to a greater or lesser extent. No solid state amp that I've heard nor any valve push pulls have had the "wire with gain" effect of a good SET valve amp in the midrange. Whilst no SET valve amp has had the bass grip and tightness of a good solid state amp. For 1 singer with their guitar music I'd go for a SET amp. For modern dance music I'd go for solid state.

 

[lpv]

Then it that case, every amp I've ever heard is a bad amp to a greater or lesser extent. No solid state amp that I've heard nor any valve push pulls have had the "wire with gain" effect of a good SET valve amp in the midrange. Whilst no SET valve amp has had the bass grip and tightness of a good solid state amp. For 1 singer with their guitar music I'd go for a SET amp. For modern dance music I'd go for solid state.

Sounds like splitting hair.. I agree with Chebby opinion: "Any competent amplifier should be able to deal with any genre of music in a satisfactory manner.

No such thing as a good amp that 'does' one genre better than others because that would make it a bad amp."

 

[plastic penguin]

No. Yes you can have the ideal amp based on the right synergy but a 'sonic' perfect amp I've yet to hear.

 

[Reggie Mental]

As the difference between amplifiers is tiny and speakers large I would say it depends far more on the speakers than the amplifier. The amplifier just needs enough welly and a flat response.

 

[Reggie Mental]

Any competent amplifier should be able to deal with any genre of music in a satisfactory manner.

No such thing as a good amp that 'does' one genre better than others because that would make it a bad amp.

Spot on.

 

[chebby]

No. Yes you can have the ideal amp based on the right synergy but a 'sonic' perfect amp I've yet to hear.

You don't know that until you've found the 'perfect' speakers for a given room. The differences between loudspeakers dwarf the differences between amps.

Even the sample variation between two speakers in the same pair can be greater in scale than the differences between two amplifiers from different brands.

 

[plastic penguin]

Wasn't referring just to my set-up - I've heard numerous expensive set-ups at retailers over the years, and although immensely impressive, I wouldn't class them strictly as perfect.

I know my system's deficiencies. I've always been honest about my kit's capabilities, and that will be addressed as and when. I also have realistic expectations what my budget can achieve.

 

[pauln]

No solid state amp that I've heard nor any valve push pulls have had the "wire with gain" effect of a good SET valve amp in the midrange. Whilst no SET valve amp has had the bass grip and tightness of a good solid state amp. For 1 singer with their guitar music I'd go for a SET amp.

Is it the high distortion that does it for you?

It really does not exsist, an amp that can play all types of music the way the user would like it to sound....there is'nt one.

Shouldn't that be the way it's supposed to sound?

You guys seem to be intentionally seeking out equipment that will change the sound - that's not high fidelity... but I suppose it is "HiFi"; hence the question "are you a music lover or are you a HiFi enthusiast?"

 

[chebby]

Wasn't referring just to my set-up ..

Nor was I.

Sorry I should have said 'one' rather than 'you'.

 

[plastic penguin]

Wasn't referring just to my set-up ..

Nor was I.

Sorry I should have said 'one' rather than 'you'.

Okay, flip the OP's question on its side: How many amp/speaker combos does one have the time and patience to sift thru before you achieve perfection? or as close as one can? So many brands, so many combos, so many different room shapes, sizes and acoustics.

In real time the best you can hope for is the ideal compromise.

 

[busb]

busb, trouble is, every system I've heard colours the sound in some way. Some are more tonally neautral than others to the extent that different recordings can be more coloured overall than the system itself. Tonal colouration is only one small part of the overall sonic jigsaw. There's also dynamics, clarity, detail, soundstaging, pitch accuracy, pitch stability - all of which may be compromised to a greater or lesser extent.

I'm not sure which component to blame but no system I've heard ccould be mistaken for live acoustic music. I've been out & about where I've heard some music where my reaction has been "That's live!" even before sight has confirmed as much. I'd also add that decent systems are getting closer & feel equipment is better now than its ever been.

As for the description - colouration - i see it as being the sme as distortion as any deviation from the original apart fom gain. So, colouration can mean diminished dynamics as well as curtailed f response, etc. However, I fail to see how an amplifier can effect pitch accuracy so feel free to expand on that.

 

[Native_bon]

No amp cam reproduce the original sound.. No amp can reproduce the fullness of a real instrument... The sound is disguised with warmth around the instruments to give the illusion of sounding fuller.. If an amplifier should amplify a snare sound to very high levels without coloration it will sound horrible..

The only amps that may be very close to the real thing at high volumes are the new breed of digital amps... But they are bloody expensive to say the least.

 

[davedotco]

Largely disagree.

It is actually quite easy to make recorded acoustic music sound live, given a good recording of course.

Firstly and most importantly, you need the space, preferably something approximating the venue for the recording. Next you need amplifiers and speakers that can handle the dynamics and shear volume (dynamic range) of the original recording in what is very likely a large space.

Expensive and impractical without doubt but difficult, no.

Blaming hifi components for this failure to sound live is simply wrong, other factors are far more important.

 

[BigH]

I think it is more the speakers to blame than the amp.

 

[davedotco]

I think it is more the speakers to blame than the amp.

Try these........http://audio-database.com/JBL/speaker/4350a-e.html

 

[Overdose]

It really does not exsist, an amp that can play all types of music the way the user would like it to sound....there is'nt one. an amp that can thump out the beats of Kanya West, sooth you with the voice of Nat King Cole, ravage you with the scream of Black Sabbath or move you with the genius of Mozart - you can have one or two genres covered but not all. Its so fustrating or am I wrong?

An amplifier amplifies signals, that's its one and only job, it does not know what music is being played. 'Perfect' is subjective, but assuming a given set of speakers, then a pefect amp would be sufficiently able to drive said speakers to their limits and still remain audibly transparent.

Do such amps exist? Yes, I believe they do, but this means that one amp perfect for say, KEF LS50s, might not be suitable for more difficult loads such as some electrostatic speakers maybe. I would say that the more powerful the amplifier, the more chance there is that it will suit a wider range of speakers.

 

[Overdose]

Also, whilst we're getting around to reproducing 'live', I would mirror davedotco's response and say that reproducing 'live' event sound is possible given the right environment and equipment. An experiment in the Sydney Opera House proved this (unfortunately couldn't find the link).

Getting the same effect in the home is another matter entirely, but the prodigous use of some DSP might help achieve something close with a multi channel system. The real problem is to recreate the 'sound' of the venue. A live acoustic set of a couple of musicians in a very 'intimate' venue would be possible though, as it would be easier to recreate in a home environment.

 

[davedotco]

Also, whilst we're getting around to reproducing 'live', I would mirror davedotco's response and say that reproducing 'live' event sound is possible given the right environment and equipment. An experiment in the Sydney Opera House proved this (unfortunately couldn't find the link).

Getting the same effect in the home is another matter entirely, but the prodigous use of some DSP might help achieve something close with a multi channel system. The real problem is to recreate the 'sound' of the venue. A live acoustic set of a couple of musicians in a very 'intimate' venue would be possible though, as it would be easier to recreate in a home environment.

Quite true. The scale of the music you are trying to reproduce is a massive factor. With a normal (good) system I would not even attempt to reproduce large scale music. In fact I would go as far as to say that I find it impossible to listen with any intent to such music in my home environment, it just sounds wrong.

Some years ago I had a client who had a big house overlooking the heath, his main room was about 40 x 30 ft, with a corner missing making a very fat L shape.

I had supplied him with a nice Roksan player and seviced and set it up in situ on a number of occasions. The amps were mid range Naim and not the latest spec driving a pair of Tannoys. But what Tannoys they were, 15 inch Reds in York enclosures, one of the best of their type.

He was particularly fond of lieder, and the sound of Fischer Dieskau and acompanying piano was as 'live' as anything I have heard in a home environment.