New turntable for a complete noob

[MrReaper182]

Get a Rega P1 truntable if your want to start spinning the big disks. You can probably find one for £300 or so online.

 

[MrReaper182]

Get a Rega P1 truntable if your want to start spinning the big disks. You can probably find one for £300 or so online.

 

[steve_1979]

A near mint condition Technics SL1210 can be found for about £500 plus a bit more for a good cartridge and phono amp. Now that's more than I'd like to spend but it'll probably be a good investment as well as a nice record player. A Project or Rega will probably loose half it's value in a few years time but a near mint 1210 should hold it's value indefinitely should I ever want to resell it again in the future. Certainly something worth consideration.

They're not as pretty as the Project's but they're a lot cooler and I've always wanted one. I think I'll wait for a couple of months to see how the finanances are going before making a decision.

 

[Vladimir]

Guys, no point wasting any more digital paper. Steve is horny about the pretty ProJect and there's no reasoning with his googly eyes.

 

[MrReaper182]

I hardly ever use my turntable and I don't think your missing out on anything. Don't just buy one because it seems every one and their dog is (because they are really not).

 

[steve_1979]

Guys, no point wasting any more digital paper. Steve is horny about the pretty ProJect and there's no reasoning with his googly eyes.

I take it you missed my last post (we were both typing at the same time judging from post times).

At the moment it's a two horse race between the Project and a Techie with the Techie in the lead.

 

[steve_1979]

Get a Rega P1 truntable if your want to start spinning the big disks. You can probably find one for £300 or so online.

That's an interesting comment from someone who owns a Project Carbon.

 

[MrReaper182]

Get a Rega P1 truntable if your want to start spinning the big disks. You can probably find one for £300 or so online.

That's an interesting comment from someone who owns a Project Carbon.

If I used my truntabe more I would replace my Carbon with a P1 but I hardly use the thing so there is no point of me doing so. Plus a Carbon looks nicer on my hi-fi rack than a P1 would.

 

[Vladimir]

Guys, no point wasting any more digital paper. Steve is horny about the pretty ProJect and there's no reasoning with his googly eyes.

I take it you missed my last post (we were both typing at the same time judging from post times).

At the moment it's a two horse race between the Project and a Techie with the Techie in the lead.

I know what you were thinking when you opened the thread, you wanted to treat yourself with a nice Debut Carbon. I'll tell you my last failed attempt to come back to vinyl, which you may believe or not.

3-4 years ago I was surrounded by audiophiles going into vinyl and due to peer presure, I thought why not, wall of records would be cool and a social bump in this hobby.

The first that I wanted to buy was a Project Debut Carbon that was on its way out as a model then (II or III, can't remember). It had all the appeal of nice quality, looks and convenience to start with a good deck. I went to see it in the shop and I was very dissapointed with it. It was horribly cheap and flimsy and just badly made. An MDF board with a toy car motor, rubber band and the tone arm. Coming from the Technics SL1200-MKII I was spoiled. So no go on the Carbon for me back then.

I browsed forums online and I got the idea I should go for a second hand TT so I looked in my local ads and there wasn't much of a choice. Just your typical budget DD Japanese decks from 80's stacked systems (Akais, Pioneers, JVCs etc.). And those make my skin crawl. But I found a Dual CS.... something (500 or 400 series, can't remember which) and it seemed very oldschool audiophile and people collected it online as a decen't starter deck. So I bought it for 20 euros and took it home. Unfortunately it was also a very poorly made POS, but still better than the ProJect.

I gasped, oh well, it's a start. It played Bob Marley OK. But it had some quirks with the tone arm lift so I took it appart (all 5 parts of it) to give it some oil, maintanance, check it out. After confirming my suspicion that it is a POS, I tried to get it 100% operational. However, everything I touched ended up breaking and self destructing. A complete pile of poo it was. But it was still better made than anything Project and Rega I've seen, mind you.

So the conclusion is.... nice pictures and reality sometimes don't match, so go in the shop and see if you like the Project, call someone who has a 1210 and try it out (feel the tork on that engine bb, mmmm).

This writeup doesn't win me any social points in the vinyl crowd, I know. Despite this experience I will always recommend a new Project over an old Technics simply because I don't want to send newbs to the second hand market slaughterhouse. They don't care or understand quality and performance anyway. They'll be chuffed with the shiny gloss MDF board and spinning LP.

 

[MeanandGreen]

I'm quite tempted to try out this black plastic spinny disc thing that I keep hearing is all the rage with the yoof of today. The Project Debut Carbon for about £400 looks like a good place to start for an idiot proof and easy to setup system.

My first logical thought is do I really want to waste £400 just so that I can rebuy some of my favourite albums in black plastic even though I already own the digital version? My heart says yes it will be nice but my head and to a lesser degree my wallet says no it'd be a waste of money and will sound worse than what I already use.

Any thoughts?

My thoughts are if you want to go down the collecting records route for the tactile side of it then go for it.

The big artwork is much better to behold than any digital offerings. Vinyl records are a thing of beauty and well mastered records sound really good! Everything about selecting a record from your shelf, taking it from it's sleeve running a carbon fibre brush over it, taking in the smell and then 'needle dropping' as its being referred to is a totally different experience to playing any other format.

You have to pay attention, you listen to a whole album because you can't just press skip. I've actually given tracks a proper shot on albums because of this. I will say however that comparing two equally good masters always sound better from a digital source IMO. I wouldn't get into vinyl thinking it's going to sound better. Even a brand new never opened record after a clean with a carbon brush still has the very occasional 'click' in quiet parts.

I'm not qualified enough to recommend a turntable, going by comments in threads like these I'm somewhere between a 'hipster' and an audiophile... A 'hipsterphile'or an 'audioster' perhaps?

Anyway I have a Pro-Ject Elemental USB in my main system. A a Pro-Ject Elemental standard version with a NAD PP2e phono stage in my second system and also a Vintage Lenco L75 idler drive turntable from 1970 which I'm not happy with as it's not running correctly yet. The obvious benefits to the new decks here are ease of set up and lack of wear.

Both the Pro-Ject turntables sound indistinguishable from each other in back to back listening. One has a built in RIAA stage and one has the external NAD. Personally I don't think built in phono stages are a bad thing judging from that. The convienece of one less mains plug, less wiring and one less box stuck on the rack are welcome in my living room.

Getting back to my two Pro-Ject decks they sound incredibly good. Considering they are 'budget' they produce a very open clean detailed sound. They don't appear to lack anything to my ears. They clearly show the difference between a good record and a shafted record. With a really good quality recording they sound a smidge below par with my best digital sources, the differences being a slight motor hum in quiet passages and not quite as much soundstage space. Overall though very good and highly enjoyable. I don't buy into the you have to spend X amount ££££ and faff about with anal precession to be able to enjoy music playback from vinyl. Maybe you do to be eligible for the 'audiophile' club though.

I would expect the Project carbon to be a very nice turntable and more than expensive enough for giving vinyl a try. It's major plus points are ease of set up and a warranty. It's brand new, no messing about changing stuff and setting it up.

My Lenco L75 is meant to be a great turntable, shame it has to wind itself up to speed, hums like a bees wing (the actual motor itself) and the antiskate parts are hard to get hold of. I've already fully re wired it, fitted new V blocks sourced a suitable replacement stylus adjusted the tonearm and I much prefer using my two 'hipster' TT's.

Anyway that's my 2p's worth, be it right or wrong.

 

[steve_1979]

I used to have friends with Techies so I know exactly what to expect (SL1210 Mk2 are my favourite). Even though it would cost a bit more they still make a lot more sense from a financial point of view so that's the way I'm leaning.

If I do get a Project or Rega or whatever I'll definitely visit a shop first to see them in the flesh before blowing £300-400.

 

[steve_1979]

My thoughts are if you want to go down the collecting records route for the tactile side of it then go for it.

The big artwork is much better to behold than any digital offerings. Vinyl records are a thing of beauty and well mastered records sound really good! Everything about selecting a record from your shelf, taking it from it's sleeve running a carbon fibre brush over it, taking in the smell and then 'needle dropping' as its being referred to is a totally different experience to playing any other format.

You have to pay attention, you listen to a whole album because you can't just press skip. I've actually given tracks a proper shot on albums because of this. I will say however that comparing two equally good masters always sound better from a digital source IMO. I wouldn't get into vinyl thinking it's going to sound better. Even a brand new never opened record after a clean with a carbon brush still has the very occasional 'click' in quiet parts.

I'm not qualified enough to recommend a turntable, going by comments in threads like these I'm somewhere between a 'hipster' and an audiophile... A 'hipsterphile'or an 'audioster' perhaps?

Anyway I have a Pro-Ject Elemental USB in my main system. A a Pro-Ject Elemental standard version with a NAD PP2e phono stage in my second system and also a Vintage Lenco L75 idler drive turntable from 1970 which I'm not happy with as it's not running correctly yet. The obvious benefits to the new decks here are ease of set up and lack of wear.

Both the Pro-Ject turntables sound indistinguishable from each other in back to back listening. One has a built in RIAA stage and one has the external NAD. Personally I don't think built in phono stages are a bad thing judging from that. The convienece of one less mains plug, less wiring and one less box stuck on the rack are welcome in my living room.

Getting back to my two Pro-Ject decks they sound incredibly good. Considering they are 'budget' they produce a very open clean detailed sound. They don't appear to lack anything to my ears. They clearly show the difference between a good record and a shafted record. With a really good quality recording they sound a smidge below par with my best digital sources, the differences being a slight motor hum in quiet passages and not quite as much soundstage space. Overall though very good and highly enjoyable. I don't buy into the you have to spend X amount ££££ and faff about with anal precession to be able to enjoy music playback from vinyl. Maybe you do to be eligible for the 'audiophile' club though.

I would expect the Project carbon to be a very nice turntable and more than expensive enough for giving vinyl a try. It's major plus points are ease of set up and a warranty. It's brand new, no messing about changing stuff and setting it up.

My Lenco L75 is meant to be a great turntable, shame it has to wind itself up to speed, hums like a bees wing (the actual motor itself) and the antiskate parts are hard to get hold of. I've already fully re wired it, fitted new V blocks sourced a suitable replacement stylus adjusted the tonearm and I much prefer using my two 'hipster' TT's.

Anyway that's my 2p's worth, be it right or wrong.

I'm not wanting to replace digital as my main source and I certainly don't expect to to have better sound quality (with a few exceptions where the vinyl masters are better then the digital releases

) but so long as it sounds good enough I'll be happy.

With vinyl I just want a bit of qwerky occasional fun. A few of my favourite chillout albums rebought in vinyl with nice art work and the faff of playing the records and watching them being played. I admit that it's all a bit silly when you look at it logically but that would be missing the point entirely. It's just a bit of daft silly fun and nothing more.

 

[Vladimir]

If I do get a Project or Rega or whatever I'll definitely visit a shop first to see them in the flesh before blowing £300-400.

Definitely do that. My understanding of what's good may not be same as yours or anyone elses. When I went in a hi-fi shop with a friend for him to buy an integrated amp, I was shocked how everything felt cheap, small and toy like. My friend thought everything was fine, flashy and cool. So my perception of things is definitely skewed from the norm. You always do your own personal appraisal.

 

[MeanandGreen]

I'm not wanting to replace digital as my main source and I certainly don't expect to to have better sound quality (with a few exceptions where the vinyl masters are better then the digital releases ) but so long as it sounds good enough I'll be happy.

With vinyl I just want a bit of qwerky occasional fun. A few of my favourite chillout albums rebought in vinyl with nice art work and the faff of playing the records and watching them being played. I admit that it's all a bit silly when you look at it logically but that would be missing the point entirely. It's just a bit of daft silly fun and nothing more.

I totally get that and your reasons for wanting to try vinyl were the same for me too. The collectibility and the physical aspect of it. Watching the record go around holding the big album covers, even playing proper 12" remixes is rather special somehow.

 

[MrReaper182]

I'm quite tempted to try out this black plastic spinny disc thing that I keep hearing is all the rage with the yoof of today. The Project Debut Carbon for about £400 looks like a good place to start for an idiot proof and easy to setup system.

My first logical thought is do I really want to waste £400 just so that I can rebuy some of my favourite albums in black plastic even though I already own the digital version? My heart says yes it will be nice but my head and to a lesser degree my wallet says no it'd be a waste of money and will sound worse than what I already use.

Any thoughts?

My thoughts are if you want to go down the collecting records route for the tactile side of it then go for it.

The big artwork is much better to behold than any digital offerings. Vinyl records are a thing of beauty and well mastered records sound really good! Everything about selecting a record from your shelf, taking it from it's sleeve running a carbon fibre brush over it, taking in the smell and then 'needle dropping' as its being referred to is a totally different experience to playing any other format.

You have to pay attention, you listen to a whole album because you can't just press skip. I've actually given tracks a proper shot on albums because of this. I will say however that comparing two equally good masters always sound better from a digital source IMO. I wouldn't get into vinyl thinking it's going to sound better. Even a brand new never opened record after a clean with a carbon brush still has the very occasional 'click' in quiet parts.

I'm not qualified enough to recommend a turntable, going by comments in threads like these I'm somewhere between a 'hipster' and an audiophile... A 'hipsterphile'or an 'audioster' perhaps?

Anyway I have a Pro-Ject Elemental USB in my main system. A a Pro-Ject Elemental standard version with a NAD PP2e phono stage in my second system and also a Vintage Lenco L75 idler drive turntable from 1970 which I'm not happy with as it's not running correctly yet. The obvious benefits to the new decks here are ease of set up and lack of wear.

Both the Pro-Ject turntables sound indistinguishable from each other in back to back listening. One has a built in RIAA stage and one has the external NAD. Personally I don't think built in phono stages are a bad thing judging from that. The convienece of one less mains plug, less wiring and one less box stuck on the rack are welcome in my living room.

Getting back to my two Pro-Ject decks they sound incredibly good. Considering they are 'budget' they produce a very open clean detailed sound. They don't appear to lack anything to my ears. They clearly show the difference between a good record and a shafted record. With a really good quality recording they sound a smidge below par with my best digital sources, the differences being a slight motor hum in quiet passages and not quite as much soundstage space. Overall though very good and highly enjoyable. I don't buy into the you have to spend X amount ££££ and faff about with anal precession to be able to enjoy music playback from vinyl. Maybe you do to be eligible for the 'audiophile' club though.

I would expect the Project carbon to be a very nice turntable and more than expensive enough for giving vinyl a try. It's major plus points are ease of set up and a warranty. It's brand new, no messing about changing stuff and setting it up.

My Lenco L75 is meant to be a great turntable, shame it has to wind itself up to speed, hums like a bees wing (the actual motor itself) and the antiskate parts are hard to get hold of. I've already fully re wired it, fitted new V blocks sourced a suitable replacement stylus adjusted the tonearm and I much prefer using my two 'hipster' TT's.

Anyway that's my 2p's worth, be it right or wrong.

Most album art sucks so all you have is bigger piece of rubbish. Vinyl lovers are always making out that's its easier to listen to an whole album on vinyl but it's not. You have to get up to change sides on a record and once I sit down and get comfy I can not normally be borthed to get up and change sides so that means I only ever hear half album when I listen to vinyl.

 

[drummerman]

With vinyl I just want a bit of qwerky occasional fun. A few of my favourite chillout albums rebought in vinyl with nice art work and the faff of playing the records and watching them being played. I admit that it's all a bit silly when you look at it logically but that would be missing the point entirely. It's just a bit of daft silly fun and nothing more.

If that's all it is why not buy a twenty quid battered old thing from the bay?

 

[drummerman]

After the novelty factor has worn off, he can then use the turntable as a powered 33/45rpm rotating cheese platter.

Just imagine the fun to be had.

 

[Vladimir]

With vinyl I just want a bit of qwerky occasional fun. A few of my favourite chillout albums rebought in vinyl with nice art work and the faff of playing the records and watching them being played. I admit that it's all a bit silly when you look at it logically but that would be missing the point entirely. It's just a bit of daft silly fun and nothing more.

If that's all it is why not buy a twenty quid battered old thing from the bay?

The Dual I refered to was unused, kept in storage for decades. The original AT cart was as new and there were zero scratches on the lid. The speed changes and the lift were a bit stiff from age but everything else was in factory condition. The springs that separated the chassis were flimsy, again probably from just sitting there. So it doesn't have to be completely knackered if it's cheap. If you don't rush things you may get a factory condition table for very little money, but I wouldn't buy one >20-40 quid unless I can personally test it.

The ProJect sounds good just by sitting on your shelf, you don't even have to play music on it. And when you do, you have fun with no serious expectations from it, and it tickles you with a gush of butterflies in your tummy when it does sound good. When you are done playing with the toy, you leave to on the shelf to continue making being a music lover look cool. Just like smoking cigaretes makes you look cool and tough. And it is a good conversation piece, keeps you more social in the hobby as well.

If you buy a more serious table then you have aspirations, expectations, competitive thinking etc. etc. Steve obviously doesn't want that. But if he buys a 1210 he will pick up an AK-47 instead of a martini glass. So the ProJect or comparable Rega is better performaer at his intended application.

 

[Vladimir]

After the novelty factor has worn off, he can then use the turntable as a powered 33/45rpm rotating cheese platter.

Just imagine the fun to be had.

The day when he has guests to entertain and plays them some 40 quid vinyl on the 1210 SL and his tipsy friend starts giggling and scratching like a DJ because that table is for fun, Steve will realize he isn't getting the party in the right direction. Just not stuffy enough with the Technics and all the vinyl shavings flying around.

 

[davedotco]

Guys, no point wasting any more digital paper. Steve is horny about the pretty ProJect and there's no reasoning with his googly eyes.

I take it you missed my last post (we were both typing at the same time judging from post times).

At the moment it's a two horse race between the Project and a Techie with the Techie in the lead.

I know what you were thinking when you opened the thread, you wanted to treat yourself with a nice Debut Carbon. I'll tell you my last failed attempt to come back to vinyl, which you may believe or not.

3-4 years ago I was surrounded by audiophiles going into vinyl and due to peer presure, I thought why not, wall of records would be cool and a social bump in this hobby.

The first that I wanted to buy was a Project Debut Carbon that was on its way out as a model then (II or III, can't remember). It had all the appeal of nice quality, looks and convenience to start with a good deck. I went to see it in the shop and I was very dissapointed with it. It was horribly cheap and flimsy and just badly made. An MDF board with a toy car motor, rubber band and the tone arm. Coming from the Technics SL1200-MKII I was spoiled. So no go on the Carbon for me back then.

I browsed forums online and I got the idea I should go for a second hand TT so I looked in my local ads and there wasn't much of a choice. Just your typical budget DD Japanese decks from 80's stacked systems (Akais, Pioneers, JVCs etc.). And those make my skin crawl. But I found a Dual CS.... something (500 or 400 series, can't remember which) and it seemed very oldschool audiophile and people collected it online as a decen't starter deck. So I bought it for 20 euros and took it home. Unfortunately it was also a very poorly made POS, but still better than the ProJect.

I gasped, oh well, it's a start. It played Bob Marley OK. But it had some quirks with the tone arm lift so I took it appart (all 5 parts of it) to give it some oil, maintanance, check it out. After confirming my suspicion that it is a POS, I tried to get it 100% operational. However, everything I touched ended up breaking and self destructing. A complete pile of poo it was. But it was still better made than anything Project and Rega I've seen, mind you.

So the conclusion is.... nice pictures and reality sometimes don't match, so go in the shop and see if you like the Project, call someone who has a 1210 and try it out (feel the tork on that engine bb, mmmm).

This writeup doesn't win me any social points in the vinyl crowd, I know. Despite this experience I will always recommend a new Project over an old Technics simply because I don't want to send newbs to the second hand market slaughterhouse. They don't care or understand quality and performance anyway. They'll be chuffed with the shiny gloss MDF board and spinning LP.

The original was quite a sturdy player, based on the CS506, solid plinth,substantial chassis with a simple but effective spring suspension. The CS505 was built specifically for the UK market with modifications to suit the emerging uk 'specialist' market.

When fitted with a decent cartridge, the Nagaoka MP11 was my choice, the result was outstanding. The music had a coherence about it that was simply better than anything close to it in price. It was better than the Planar 2 of its day (Acos oem arm) and very close indeed to the Planar 3.

Naturally Dual's attempt to cash in led to various later versions, each more cheaply made than the one before and significantly less good.

Early versions of the SL1200 were built for the hi-fi market, in which they were not particularly successful. It was, roughly 3 times the price of the CS506/505 and difficult to demonstrate because it was highly microphonic and prone to feedback, due, I think, to those oversize but useless 'isolating' feet.

The variable speed, high torque motor and near instant start up made the unit suitable for the disco market, which, in my view, is where it should stay.

 

[Vladimir]

Just to add, I'm certain I didn't have that particular Dual Dave is talking about. This one was similar looking but different model, for the German and Eastern-European market, so I can imagine how less well built it would be.

 

[chebby]

I still have a few bits 'n bobs from my days with a Dual CS-505 ...

Cartrdge alignment jig, Ortofon DN-168E cartridge, extra counterweight mass for heavier cartridges, shims and 1/2" mount adaptors. (I used an MP11 Boron.)

 

[steve_1979]

With vinyl I just want a bit of qwerky occasional fun. A few of my favourite chillout albums rebought in vinyl with nice art work and the faff of playing the records and watching them being played. I admit that it's all a bit silly when you look at it logically but that would be missing the point entirely. It's just a bit of daft silly fun and nothing more.

If that's all it is why not buy a twenty quid battered old thing from the bay?

Even if it's only for a bit of occasional fun I still want something that sounds half decent.

 

[steve_1979]

The day when he has guests to entertain and plays them some 40 quid vinyl on the 1210 SL and his tipsy friend starts giggling and scratching like a DJ because that table is for fun, Steve will realize he isn't getting the party in the right direction. Just not stuffy enough with the Technics and all the vinyl shavings flying around.

No they bloody won't! *nea*

 

[steve_1979]

What cartridge would you guys recommend for a Techie? (I don't like those Concorde cartridges because they just look wrong and would bug the hell out of me)

Also why do record players need to be grounded the way they do? What's wrong with grounding them via the wall socket like other electrical appliances?