New amplifier: my long journey...

[altruistic.lemon]

The Guarnieris aren't that easy a load. I'd suggest you need something around 100W or higher to get the best out of them - 35W is at the bottom end of their acceptable rating.

 

[acalex]

The Guarnieris aren't that easy a load. I'd suggest you need something around 100W or higher to get the best out of them - 35W is at the bottom end of their acceptable rating.

I tried them already with the Jadis and loved every second. The Jadis didn't have any problem with all types of music we tried and beyond my normal listening level also. At low volumes also they were performing very well and the ampli was perfectly capable...

So I agree with you that on paper that probably not a perferct match, but practically it was a beautiful combination.

 

[CnoEvil]

The Guarnieris aren't that easy a load. I'd suggest you need something around 100W or higher to get the best out of them - 35W is at the bottom end of their acceptable rating.

Hi AL

If you are referring to the AMS 35i, this is far from a normal 35 W amp. It has been measured at pulling well over 400W from the mains, and doubles it's power into 4 Ohms, and again into 2 Ohms. It has no trouble driving Kef Refs, where the impedance drops to 3.2 Ohms.

What does surprise me, is a 30 W valve amp driving them...but hearing is believing.

 

[CnoEvil]

Sorry, double post.

 

[acalex]

The Guarnieris aren't that easy a load. I'd suggest you need something around 100W or higher to get the best out of them - 35W is at the bottom end of their acceptable rating.

Hi AL If you are referring to the AMS 35i, it is not a normal 35W amp. It has been measured drawing well over 400 W from the mains, and doubles it's power into 4 Ohms and again into 2 Ohms. It has no trouble driving my 205/2s, whose impedance drops to 3.2 Ohms. What does surprise me, is a 30 W valve amp driving them....but hearing is believing.

Bear in mind we are talking about the Guarneri Memento, not the Guarneri Homage. I have lurked around on the web and it appears almost everybody agrees that the Jadis D50S and the GM are a wonderful match...

 

[altruistic.lemon]

I've heard them with a Leben integrated - 15W. Sounded very nice indeed, if a bit too warm for my taste, but I wouldn't have wanted to push the volume up too much.

I'm remember the dealer demo with the little Harbeth, where he compared a 50W with a 100W amp, and the Harbeths certainly sounded fuller and with better space round the instruments with the more powerful amp.

But there are no hard and fast rules in this game, of course

 

[acalex]

I've heard them with a Leben integrated - 15W. Sounded very nice indeed, if a bit too warm for my taste, but I wouldn't have wanted to push the volume up too much.

I'm remember the dealer demo with the little Harbeth, where he compared a 50W with a 100W amp, and the Harbeths certainly sounded fuller and with better space round the instruments with the more powerful amp.

But there are no hard and fast rules in this game, of course

And plus...if I decide the valve amps is the route I want to follow, I think I will stop at the Jadis DA88S when it will be time. Regarding speakers, the GM will be my definitive ones for sure...or maybe the Amati futura one day :wall:

 

[CnoEvil]

I've heard them with a Leben integrated - 15W. Sounded very nice indeed, if a bit too warm for my taste, but I wouldn't have wanted to push the volume up too much.

I'm remember the dealer demo with the little Harbeth, where he compared a 50W with a 100W amp, and the Harbeths certainly sounded fuller and with better space round the instruments with the more powerful amp.

But there are no hard and fast rules in this game, of course

And plus...if I decide the valve amps is the route I want to follow, I think I will stop at the Jadis DA88S when it will be time. Regarding speakers, the GM will be my definitive ones for sure...or maybe the Amati futura one day :wall:

That's hard to argue with.

 

[acalex]

I've heard them with a Leben integrated - 15W. Sounded very nice indeed, if a bit too warm for my taste, but I wouldn't have wanted to push the volume up too much.

I'm remember the dealer demo with the little Harbeth, where he compared a 50W with a 100W amp, and the Harbeths certainly sounded fuller and with better space round the instruments with the more powerful amp.

But there are no hard and fast rules in this game, of course

And plus...if I decide the valve amps is the route I want to follow, I think I will stop at the Jadis DA88S when it will be time. Regarding speakers, the GM will be my definitive ones for sure...or maybe the Amati futura one day :wall:

That's hard to argue with.

I must say...the more I listen around the more I am feeling comfortable in taking the plunge and letting the money leave my bank account. Two weeks ago i was completely lost and confused, can't thank you enough for the huge help you gave me in finding my way

Ah, forgot to mention...the dealer has the Amati Futura connected to a full Audio research system (preamp, CD Player, two power amps) + a turntable (can't remember the brand but it is around 10k) for a total close to 100k eur. Curios to how a 100k system will sound...

 

[Macspur]

Hi Acalex, Does this mean you've discounted the MF AMS35? or will you be home demoeing that too? Enjoying the thread, cheers

Not at all. I just had the opportunity to try this beautiful amp at home for a month. I am going to do a direct comparison between Jadis and AMS this coming week or in 2 weeks time.

I think there is a pattern emerging, but you are rightly seeing it through to the end.

Hi, Must admit, can't wait for "and the winner is!" Sounds like Acalex has found a really good dealer there, to be able to home demo gear for a month is pretty impressive. Don't know the Jadis at all and haven't managed to get to hear the AMS, but from your description Cno, it's certainly one I must, some time soon.

Yes indeed. I hope the Acalex gets to try the 35i with the Ref 205/2s, as well as Lavardin + LV....with a musical source. As you know, the Naim, good as it is, wouldn't meet the OP's criteria. The MF is VERY revealing of source and cables, and responds well to a good mains lead; the Lavardin sounds best with it's own (very expensive) cabling. With these amps, there isn't bad......just different. I suspect Jardis + SF gives such a rich, romantic and addictive presentation, that it'll be hard to overlook. It will just make everything sound enjoyable. My only (slight) reservation, is the extra cost and faff, that comes with the ownership of valves.

Yes, I agree, don't think I could be bothered with the extra faff of valves.
The equipment Acalex is trying definitely deserves a better source than the entry level Naim... Audio Research or a Wadia perhaps.

 

[acalex]

Yes, I agree, don't think I could be bothered with the extra faff of valves. The equipment Acalex is trying definitely deserves a better source than the entry level Naim... Audio Research or a Wadia perhaps.

You have to try what a good valve amp is capable of doing before saying that! :rofl:

My final source will be a Clearaudio TT (the Performance or the Ovation if I judge the improvement worth the 2.5k eur premium) and a NOS tube DAC (Pathos, AN or Jadis itself) with a good streamer...that's for now my idea.

I might replace DAC and streamer with a second hand Linn Klimax if it really convinces me...

 

[Macspur]

Yes, I agree, don't think I could be bothered with the extra faff of valves. The equipment Acalex is trying definitely deserves a better source than the entry level Naim... Audio Research or a Wadia perhaps.

You have to try what a good valve amp is capable of doing before saying that! :rofl:

My final source will be a Clearaudio TT (the Performance or the Ovation if I judge the improvement worth the 2.5k eur premium) and a NOS tube DAC (Pathos, AN or Jadis itself) with a good streamer...that's for now my idea.

I might replace DAC and streamer with a second hand Linn Klimax if it really convinces me...

No offense, I'm sure it sounds wonderful, but just valves not for me, quite happy with class A.
How about this for your source; Jadis JD1 transport with psu and JS2 Signature DAC, mint/boxed, (RRP £20,200) offered for (GBP) 5250
Cheers

 

[acalex]

Yes, I agree, don't think I could be bothered with the extra faff of valves. The equipment Acalex is trying definitely deserves a better source than the entry level Naim... Audio Research or a Wadia perhaps.

You have to try what a good valve amp is capable of doing before saying that! :rofl:

My final source will be a Clearaudio TT (the Performance or the Ovation if I judge the improvement worth the 2.5k eur premium) and a NOS tube DAC (Pathos, AN or Jadis itself) with a good streamer...that's for now my idea.

I might replace DAC and streamer with a second hand Linn Klimax if it really convinces me...

No offense, I'm sure it sounds wonderful, but just valves not for me, quite happy with class A. How about this for your source; Jadis JD1 transport with psu and JS2 Signature DAC, mint/boxed, (RRP £20,200) offered for (GBP) 5250 Cheers

Where?

 

[Macspur]

Yes, I agree, don't think I could be bothered with the extra faff of valves. The equipment Acalex is trying definitely deserves a better source than the entry level Naim... Audio Research or a Wadia perhaps.

You have to try what a good valve amp is capable of doing before saying that! :rofl:

My final source will be a Clearaudio TT (the Performance or the Ovation if I judge the improvement worth the 2.5k eur premium) and a NOS tube DAC (Pathos, AN or Jadis itself) with a good streamer...that's for now my idea.

I might replace DAC and streamer with a second hand Linn Klimax if it really convinces me...

No offense, I'm sure it sounds wonderful, but just valves not for me, quite happy with class A. How about this for your source; Jadis JD1 transport with psu and JS2 Signature DAC, mint/boxed, (RRP £20,200) offered for (GBP) 5250 Cheers

Where?

www.hifi-stereo.com

 

[CnoEvil]

)

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Don't listen to the evil man, go with your gut instinct He's just sewing seeds of doubts as per his name! (I could mean belying his name, but don't have the knowledgable one here at the mo)

Seriously, you can stuff around for ages with HiFi or simply go for it. I'm in the latter school. The Naim/Magnepan combo sounded so good I (we, really) didn't bother listening to much else - felt right, so we jumped in. Yes, listened to a lot before, but nothing had the impact of that combo.

 

[CnoEvil]

Don't listen to the evil man, go with your gut instinct He's just sewing seeds of doubts as per his name! (I could mean belying his name, but don't have the knowledgable one here at the mo)

Seriously, you can stuff around for ages with HiFi or simply go for it. I'm in the latter school. The Naim/Magnepan combo sounded so good I (we, really) didn't bother listening to much else - felt right, so we jumped in. Yes, listened to a lot before, but nothing had the impact of that combo.

You could be right; I'm not "Speak no Evil".....that's my bro'. :shifty:

You were in the trade, and that makes a big difference when it comes to understanding your own taste.

If Acalex had gone with the first thing that sounded good, he would have bought the Plinius......which would have cost more money and sounded less good to his ears.

I totally understand his need to get it right first time, given the money he is looking to spend.

 

[acalex]

Much as you enjoy listening to other great systems, you keep coming back to Jadis + SF. To make absolutely certain, you are rightly listening to a 35i with vinyl (use a better mains lead, even if it's not a very expensive one), and the Lavardin + LV. If on a demo you feel the sound is too bright, it is a good indicator as to how you will find it long term....unless your room is more damped. Generally speaking, if you get "smitten" by a certain speaker/amp combo, nearly everything else will fall short....though you still have to check the competition for peace of mind. I see one of those shops also does McIntosh amps.....another great brand. >)

That's right. But as you say I need to check the competition for peace of mind.

Now that I removed the Jadis from the market (as I am demoeing it for a month), I can focus more on the "competitors". What is also weighting a lot is that I negotiaded a great deal on the Jadis D50RC signature (brand new costs 6k eur) whilst I won't have any deal on the other brands. I might get maybe a 5% off on a new AMS35, but that would still fall short the over 20% discount I would get on the Jadis as ex-demo. For same price as MF I could get a Jadis and a Clearaudio Performance TT.

Ah, btw, what's the brand I should look at when buying a phono pre-amp? The guy told me the EAR 834P Signature Deluxe (the one we used during the demo) is a great phono amp...

I saw McIntosh also...basically both shops have them. Not very attracted by the look to be honest...and it looks like another niche brands as Audio Note, am I wrong?

 

[acalex]

You could be right; I'm not "Speak no Evil".....that's my bro'. :shifty: You were in the trade, and that makes a big difference when it comes to understanding your own taste. If Acalex had gone with the first thing that sounded good, he would have bought the Plinius......which would have cost more money and sounded less good to his ears. I totally understand his need to get it right first time, given the money he is looking to spend.

Indeed. Plinius is a great amp but not as close as to what I am looking for....now that I now at least

Yes, I guess if you are already in the trade that makes an huge difference. I am completely new to this world and would like to get it right as I am planning to spend (planning carefully of course) quite a lot of money on it as I realised how much pleasure it gives me. So glad I did not buy an Audi A5 in the end as I can now spend more money on hi-fi

During this month I will also try to have a listen at the Pathos family...just to get definitely peace of mind

 

[CnoEvil]

Much as you enjoy listening to other great systems, you keep coming back to Jadis + SF. To make absolutely certain, you are rightly listening to a 35i with vinyl (use a better mains lead, even if it's not a very expensive one), and the Lavardin + LV. If on a demo you feel the sound is too bright, it is a good indicator as to how you will find it long term....unless your room is more damped. Generally speaking, if you get "smitten" by a certain speaker/amp combo, nearly everything else will fall short....though you still have to check the competition for peace of mind. I see one of those shops also does McIntosh amps.....another great brand. >)

That's right. But as you say I need to check the competition for peace of mind.

Now that I removed the Jadis from the market (as I am demoeing it for a month), I can focus more on the "competitors". What is also weighting a lot is that I negotiaded a great deal on the Jadis D50RC signature (brand new costs 6k eur) whilst I won't have any deal on the other brands. I might get maybe a 5% off on a new AMS35, but that would still fall short the over 20% discount I would get on the Jadis as ex-demo. For same price as MF I could get a Jadis and a Clearaudio Performance TT.

Ah, btw, what's the brand I should look at when buying a phono pre-amp? The guy told me the EAR 834P Signature Deluxe (the one we used during the demo) is a great phono amp...

I saw McIntosh also...basically both shops have them. Not very attracted by the look to be honest...and it looks like another niche brands as Audio Note, am I wrong?

If you fight hard, you should get 10% off MF. Indra is the person to contact there....they are unlikely to lose a sale over 5% (worth bearing in mind if it becomes an option).

McIntosh is a large, but slightly niche product that is made in the States. It has retro looks that you love or hate, but it fits the bill for the sound you like.

At the level you are looking at, I'm not sure what phono stage to look at......I've been out of that loop for 20 years....but the Ear sounds good though.

 

[acalex]

If you fight hard, you should get 10% off MF. Indra is the person to contact there....they are unlikely to lose a sale over 5% (worth bearing in mind if it becomes an option). McIntosh is a large, but slightly niche product that is made in the States. It has retro looks that you love or hate, but it fits the bill for the sound you like. At the level you are looking at, I'm not sure what phono stage to look at......I've been out of that loop for 20 years....but the Ear sounds good though.

Good to know, thanks a lot.

I do not really like the look of McIntosh to be honest, so that might be an easy one. BUT I won't miss the opportunity to plug one and listen during my next visit to my favourite shop... :dance:

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Ah, btw, what's the brand I should look at when buying a phono pre-amp? The guy told me the EAR 834P Signature Deluxe (the one we used during the demo) is a great phono amp...

a very good suggestion. a very good dealer.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

During this month I will also try to have a listen at the Pathos family...just to get definitely peace of mind

good for you. will give you some more "head scratching" again.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

The Naim/Magnepan combo sounded so good I (we, really) didn't bother listening to much else - felt right, so we jumped in.

can't help but to back up A.L.'s post.

buy a decent amp first and only then start looking for a good set of speakers. but before you commit to buying anything make sure you try out planar speakers. ribbon/ magnetic (Magnepans, Audio Analysis) or electrostatics (Quad, Martin Logan, King Sound; for instance) will be too insensitive for amps of your choice. ~ 30W will not yield enough juice to make them sound dynamically convincing. but there's Podium Sound with their planars which are neither electrostatic nor ribbon/ magnetostats but they are very sensitive for planars (around 95 dB sensitivity) so a 30W amp will be definitely enough. they are on my "to be listened to" wish list as they are so sensitive and 1-way speakers (no crossover) which only promises good things. give them a try if you have a chance. or give any planars you'll come across a try. I think you'll not be disappointed. it's hard to explain how bipolar planars are different than box speakers. you must hear to know. but as you listened to some planars you'll know there's no turning back to box speakers (even Sonus Faber ) as you know you'll loose too much.

BTW. I should note I recently bought Magnepan MG12 for a try. and haven't hooked up my Dynaudio Focus 110 ever since Maggies came. that says something, I think.

 

[acalex]

Ah, btw, what's the brand I should look at when buying a phono pre-amp? The guy told me the EAR 834P Signature Deluxe (the one we used during the demo) is a great phono amp...

a very good suggestion. a very good dealer.

Good to get an experienced confirmation on both phono stage and dealer also