New amplifier: my long journey...

[CnoEvil]

They were the ones that the dealer was using, so again maybe a little more reasearch would have been justified. But given their recommendation & some of the things I found online it seemed like a safe bet. I would have preferred to go one model up for the speaker cables & bougth the Gibralters but the budget didn't quite allow for it.

Interesting what you said about the silver cables. Both the dealer & my friend used the Comet, which is a silver cable, with the Diablos & they sounded fantastic.

I do eventuallu plan to get a better power cable & maybe some sort of conditioning. I think first though I will run a dedicated power circuit for the AMS.

How one likes the presentation is very personal, and there isn't a "right" answer. The main thing is to listen to a few alternatives to make sure mistakes aren't made. If you are looking at expensive cables, you should also check out Atlas Mavros, Cardas Golden Reference and Telurium Q Ultra Black/Graphite.

I've yet to hear a silver-coated cable that hasn't had an artificial sounding treble, but maybe AQ have achieved this.....just be careful that mixed with Focal, that it doesn't bring on fatigue after an hour or so. It is essential to try alternatives at home, over a period of a few days.

 

[Roby]

Have you been speaking to Kronos, as I have a lot of faith in both David and Gary?

Not exactly, I was surfing on the website an had chat with some Stacey. I had just a question about the warenty an ended up talking for more than 1h....

Anyway I think I will give theme a call this week it might help me decide if it's worth it...An then I will ask afther David or Gary.

Other question doe's the AMS come with 2 power chord's or do I need to buy one for Belgium?

Cno witch of to shop's shoud I contact?

 

[CnoEvil]

Not exactly, I was surfing on the website an had chat with some Stacey. I had just a question about the warenty an ended up talking for more than 1h....

Anyway I think I will give theme a call this week it might help me decide if it's worth it...An then I will ask afther David or Gary.

Other question doe's the AMS come with 2 power chord's or do I need to buy one for Belgium?

The AMS comes with the p/c suitable for the country it's bought in. Kronos were doing an offer with Titan P/Cs, and if still doing so, may be able to wangle something with the right connection (offer was only for new components I think).

IMO The 35i reacts well to a better p/c anyway... ie like Clearer Audio Copper Line (Alpha+)

Let me know how you get on with David (owner) or Gary (son).

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno witch of to shop's shoud I contact?

The one in NI (Dungannon): http://www.beamax.com/uk-kronos-av,-dungannon-bt70-1ar-n-ireland

 

[Neuphonix]

Neuphonix. re: your problem with lack of HT bypass in AMS. AFAIK HT bypass is simply an input in integrated amp that bypasses preamp section. so you could easily make your own HT bypass with what you have right now. choose variable out on your receiver, than use any line level input on AMS and crank up the volume to the full, i.e. no attenuation - full gain. and presto! your own HT bypass. you might consult Musical Fidelity for reassurance but I'm pretty sure they would confirm what I just said.

however, there's still an issue of voltage gains difference between different amps. I presume you'd be using AMS for fronts and centre and rears will be served by something else. it's always best to have the same amps powering a set of speakers in order not to have gains differences.

Hi Thanks for your response.

Forgive my ignorance but what is AFAIK? I'm not sure if my reciever has a variable output or not. I currently run the M6 via the front pre-outs, would this be variable?

Bit worried about leaving the AMS up at full volume though if this is what you are suggesting. I can just see the missus pressing the wrong button & my cones ending up splatted on the back wall!

sorry. sometimes you just get carried away thinking that everybody knows everything.

AFAIK = as far as I know

pre-outs are variable outputs. variable means the signal gets filtered by the preamp section before it's sent away. that way information about changed volume levels is sent with it. fixed level or line level outputs (like tape out) on the other hand send the full signal without attenuation.

that's a good point about AMS being left fully tilted and your missus. well the trick to it is to turn down the volume when you've finished using HT set up. otherwise it may end up as you describe.

I'm still not exactly sure how this would work. I think I understand what you are suggesting, but it does raise a few questions.

I have done a lot of searching for an answer on this subject & haven't heard of this solution anywhere.

Thanks again for your thoughts though, appreciate the input.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

I'm still not exactly sure how this would work. I think I understand what you are suggesting, but it does raise a few questions.

I have done a lot of searching for an answer on this subject & haven't heard of this solution anywhere.

Thanks again for your thoughts though, appreciate the input.

what I suggest is to turn an integrated amp into power amp and use AV receiver as pre amp. I know this suggestion is somewhat unorthodox therefore I suggested to contact Musical Fidelity for reassurance. well, I don't know the guts of the AMS so I don't know if its a power amp with a passive attenuator or is is genuine pre/ power in common chassis.

 

[acalex]

AMS is very very fast and has a lot of cahracter. Sound is full, the result is a great listening experience. It is an all-round amplifier and will perform great with every type of music. Had the impression soundstage with AMS was a bit wider than Jadis. It has a lot of presence when playing...and this was what made me put the Lavardin IT on a side when compared to the MF.

Again...AMS is damn close on everything......I can assure you it is not an easy choice and I am struggling. I might need the intervention of my dealer with a suggestion...or maybe Cno caming here and helping me deciding

Lavardin = Delicacy/Insight; AMS35i = Excitement/Power; Jadis = Romance/Emotion

I would like nothing more than traveling over to help with your decision, but I'm due in to hospital on Tuesday to get my back seen to, so will have to try and help from afar.....so here are my thoughts:

- You can't make a decision until you hear both amps on the SFs with the correct source. I'm not surprised that the Lavardin came in third, given your taste. What I am surprised about (like Roby), is that you preferred it to the Sugden (bodes well for Mac).

- If 80% of your music sounds better on the Jadis, then that is the direction you should go. Failing that, it's a matter of strengths vs weaknesses.....ie, If the MF sounds 90% as good as the Jadis, where the Jadis excells, and better on everything else, then that is where you should go.

- Don't forget to try the MF with a Cardis Golden Ref P/C and Golden Cross S/C & I/C, as I think it may close the gap even more. In my case they certainly seemed to suit the 35i. They don't have to all be purchased at this stage.

The MF that you have is one of the older variety with the black volume knob, as the modern ones have a silver one. It's not a big issue, but might help in the bargaining (if that's the one you buy)

The 35i has a few weaknesses, some of which you've discovered:

1. The volume on the Remote should be labelled "Too Loud" and Too Quiet".

2. If you connect a sub to the Pre-Outs, it sends out a thump when the amp is turned on/off.

3. The remote is too big, heavy and clumsy....I use a Linn one.

4. When the amp cools down, it can let out a few "settling cracks" like a radiator in an old house.

5. It uses a lot of power and gets very hot.

Where sound quality is concerned....well I don't have to tell you about that; I bet your speakers have never had such deep, powerful bass.

In some ways, it may be a matter of Emotion vs Excitement.

Cno,thanks a lot for your thoughts, I really appreciate the help you are giving me and good luck for your back.

Yes,lavardin came third for a few simple reasons that I will explain here. First of all I had more time to leave with the lavardin it in an environment I know very well (at home) with speakers, source, music I know very well also so I could appreciate the difference between the lavardin presentation and what I was used for and like (jadis). Sudgen was at a dealers shop,wasn't even sitting at the middle (realised that later) and when we started playing music I know fairly well I was noticing al the time lacking of something. This might be due to a lot of reasons but it was my first impression. It is a great amp and I think it might be a very good substitute of an ams, but had probably to hear it at home to give it full justice.

Regarding what you think of ams defects, I have already spotted some of them and must agree that the remote volume cntrol is not that useful and it is a bit too big for my personal taste. Indeed I also noticed the small cracks when oh turn it off as it is cooling down. Worth to mention these things as it is not a cheap amp but nothing terrible you can't live with.

In relation to what you said about type of music, as roby said...on specific songs I liked more the presentation of the jadis especially on voices presence and focus. Leonard Cohen was more present in the room and his image was more neat within the soundstage, but the difference was not really huge. As you said correctly, a decision can't be made until I hear both through the sonus faber speakers. It will be this coming Friday, so very soon. Hopefully roby can make it to give me a second opinion.

My dealer suggested to hear for a few hours at home both amplifier without switching to them and pick up the one that overall it is easier to listen and gives me more listening pleasure. What do you think about this advice?

thanks again

 

[acalex]

But I found it beautifully built, kind of amp that men cannot like...it has presence not only when it plays!! Remote is a piece of work as well, heavy and made in thick metal. I was a bit disappointed as I couldn't find the right volum level using the remote...it was either too soft or too loud. Have same problem with Jadis remote. But I guess this is very subjective argument...

Oh yeah.. I can imagine.. I saw Titan series from MF and I was like so impessed by the size. The Inpol2 was also a true beautifully grown beast.. I can imagine the pure joy they bring to the living by sheer presence!

Regarding the volume control.. I know this might be out of context but there were few pages dedicated in my Classe (both the CAP as well as SSP) manual about how to tune the volume and the various possibilities of setting the volume increase ( I guess at lower volume the same knob turn gives more volume or vice versa). But with 100 points on the display and volume climbing in a different way (which I guess is also customizable) now I see the point in the Classe Manual!

If that is the only challenge, I guess some tuning could be done else where at source may be?

Very nice to read the review /impressions.. Pictures speak alot as well.. thanks for posting them.. eagerly await the dealer demo results with SF speakers.

Whish, thanks for your intervention. Yes the volume thing on the remote is a bit annoying bu nothing too terrible you can't live with. Indeed I could change the volume at the source level if I am using the digital one, but what about the turntable? Well let's see...I have anyway same problem with jadis remote so nothing new there.

Glad you appreciated photos and reviews

 

[acalex]

hi Acalex. I follow your thread with interest even though I don't contribute much. it's very interesting what you say about MF AMS vs. Jadis vs. Lavardin IT. I'm particularly concerned with MF vs. Lavardin performance evaluation. I had an opportunity to briefly audition Lavardin IT-15 at an audio show. I found this amp to be very good. very musical, very agile and very precise. however, I didn't feel I was missing any of those feats at home. so I rate Lavardin IT equally to my Pathos Classic One mkIII. however, my dream amp is ever since I plugged in my Classic One is Inpol (I mean, since Classic One is so darn good and it's more than less conventional amp and Inpol is completely different design to any other amp on the market, there may be something that may actually make it sound better than other amps on the market). anyway, having read your impressions I'm really beginning to consider the AMS as a path to upgrade too. however, could you also try out Inpol2 before you commit? I don't have a chance to listen to any of the two amps ATM. but I'd like to know how AMS fares stacked against Inpol? I guess you'd benefit from that knowledge too.

I remember some dealer told you it's no point auditioning Inpol since you already have Jadis. but somehow this view doesn't convince me.

Thanks oldric, I know you are following the thread .

Regarding the inpol, it is not hat easy as it looks as we do not have any dealer in Belgium selling them. I might try to arrange a meeting in the Netherlands just to put my mind at rest also, but have to check if they have the inpol2 in house. At the price it's sold here in Belgium, it has to be damn pretty good to convince me to consider it as an alternative. In my imagination I see the inpol 2 as a bit in the middle between the powerful ams and the romantic jadis. Having a bit of ams but not as much and a bit of jadis but again not as much. On the other way I am very curios to see how a class A design matched with a zero feedback will perform...maybe Wish can give us an insight about power, punch and excitement of the inpol2 he owned already.

I will try to go out and listen but can't promise anything. Maybe after the mention of official forum taster will be more motivated to do that , jocking of course. Stay reassured hat if I have an opportunity I will do and share my impressions with you.

Roby, are you up for a trip to Netherlands to demo the Italian champion pathos?

 

[acalex]

Michael, you are most welcome to the forum......and don't worry about the hi-jacking, as Acalex is a generous soul, who thinks that "more" is "merrier". It's great so many people are trying out the 35i, as for a while, I was a lone voice in the wilderness. I have been where you are are re the HT by-pass, but having demoed the 35i at home, nothing else would do. I have a simple work-around, where the volume is set to a pre-determined position for AV. Focal are not my favorite speakers (prefer Kef Refs) , but the best I ever heard them sounding, was on the end of a DCS Debussy Dac and a 35i. Keep us posted on how you get on. Cno

Michael, welcome to the forum, I am really glad ou are enjoying the reading and no need to apologise, I am also curios to read other people experiences about these beautiful amps.

As you might have read already, we also tried the m6500i against t he ams and rated it. Briefly, we did find it as a terrific amplifier, very clean and transparent, powerful and detailed, bt just not enough musical and emotional for our ears. It does not forgive any bad recording but allows (if correctly matched with proper speakers) to hear exactly what a musician intended to play.

Plenty of power to drive anything basically. Don't know how it is performing when used as an av amplifier, but I do agree with you that musically speaking there is no fair comparison between the two as I found the ams more enjoyable and with lore more emotions. Now it is really a matter of practical solution...if you can find a turn around for your volume level problem, I think you will live very happy win an Ams, no doubt on that.

 

[acalex]

Other speakers I have listened to are B&W nautilus 801 (second hand), focal 1038be, & paradigm signature.

Certainly the floor standers all had more presence but as I said to Robbi, my space doen't require this now. The Diablos did sound forward, but certainly didn't lack warmth or bass.

Point taken about the source though. Both music & HT will come via the oppo nuforce. Should be OK, sounded sensational when listening at the dealer. At this stage I couldn't justify spending an exorbidant amaount on a new CD player.

I think the money would be better directed to some sore of DAC / streamimg solution. I have not focused too much on this area yet, just wanted to let the new amp/speaker combination settle down. I have read a bit about the M1-DAC & Clic, which both seem to review quite well. They guy I first heard the MF/Diablo combination with has the clic & seems to like it.

Hope I've done the right thing. I certainly haven't exercised quite the same level of research or patience that Alex and Robbi have! Never been my strong suite.

Oh well, maybe this won't be the last upgrade I go through! hehehe! >)

I want to reconnect at this post to share my experience with speakers also. I was as well a big fan of floor standing speakers and big in size as I thought the level of presence, power and excitement they could reproduce was second to none. I tried myself the key ref 205/2 and find them very nice and neutral speakers. Very revealing and detailed. I tried living voice, audio physics, proac, b&w 800 series, dynaudio, avalon and sonus faber.

What really got me thinking is when I heard the "small" auditor Cremona m from SF and after that the SF Guarneri memento. I was very impressed by those little beauties, the level of detail was astonishing and they were also very punchy and a pleasure to listen. I couldn't believe that such level of sound cold come out from such a small speakers. Hence another demonstration that size does t matter .

We will go out and listen at the diablos also, now you got me really curios about them

 

[CnoEvil]

My dealer suggested to hear for a few hours at home both amplifier without switching to them and pick up the one that overall it is easier to listen and gives me more listening pleasure. What do you think about this advice?

thanks again

The problem that you have, is that there isn't necessarily an absolute answer, just a compromise. I think what your dealer has said is very wise, and was going to suggest it myself if switching back and forth didn't come up with an answer. Just bear in mind that mood has a lot with how much you enjoy the music and you can reach saturation point after a few hours of intensive listening/analysis.....so have good breaks and let the music "soak in" and see which instinctually gives more pleasure.

I think what I would do is make a long play list (or batch of CDs) made up of an eclectic mix of your best known music.....but batch it in groups ie. Music that sounds worst on the Jadis, music that sounds best on the Jadis and vica versa for the 35i (it may be the same 2 lists, but it also may not).

If I had to guess, I would say that for listening at home with your current kit, I would expect the Jadis will come out on top. The reason for this is that it is more forgiving than the AMS. It will certainly offset the slight forwardness of the speakers, and to some extent, be less revealing of the deficiency of the source.

Provided the synergy remains intact, I would expect the MF to close the gap as the source improves (as it can't honey coat to the same extent) and with speakers like the SF, there is no brightness to offset. There is also the fact that Cardas cabling is famous for its richer musical presentation.

So in summary, sit back, relax (without turning yourself inside out with analysis), and let the decision come to you by Osmosis...but when all is said and done, the acid test will come with the correct TT, speakers and cabling.

 

[Roby]

Roby, are you up for a trip to Netherlands to demo the Italian champion pathos?

Shure no problerm ;-)

 

[Roby]

The problem that you have, is that there isn't necessarily an absolute answer, just a compromise. I think what your dealer has said is very wise, and was going to suggest it myself if switching back and forth didn't come up with an answer. Just bear in mind that mood has a lot with how much you enjoy the music and you can reach saturation point after a few hours of intensive listening/analysis.....so have good breaks and let the music "soak in" and see which instinctually gives more pleasure.

[/quote]

Exactly It's what I told alex, wel what I mean is I think I enyoyed the Sugden so much becaus I was completly relaxed in that demo, So the mood of the day have a huge impact on how we listen an feel the music + that day I was sitting more in the middle.

About making a long playsist before switching well I noticed this already at a dealer we don't really like in Brussels,

The guy kept trying to convince me NAD was the perfect (btw he is the one who sold it to me, the only item I regretably didnt buy at New music for now. Because I'm shure They would have give me better advice an change it if I wanted to upgrade) amp an all the rest was crap (I'm almost shure Alex who I'm talking about).

an should not sell it even if I have a great opportunity, an rather change the speakers. But I don't have a opportunity to sell my speakers I told him so....

Anyway I ended up listening to differend speakers on the NAD (have to be said the NAD is great for the price)

So I listened to Vienna aciustic, Proarc, BW

An the dealer kept changing the speakers afther 1 song, I tought this was really enoying because I couldn't make up my mind that way.... He said It is better that way to spot what you prefer. I couldn't agree less.... I ended up asking him to leave an I would call him when I want to change.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

In my imagination I see the inpol 2 as a bit in the middle between the powerful ams and the romantic jadis. Having a bit of ams but not as much and a bit of jadis but again not as much.

"It seems that Pathos designers and technicians have achieved the target of obtaining the "mirage of an iron fist in a velvet glove.""

I will try to go out and listen but can't promise anything. Maybe after the mention of official forum taster will be more motivated to do that , jocking of course. Stay reassured hat if I have an opportunity I will do and share my impressions with you.

appreciated

on another topic. it was always puzzling to me how a low power class A can even compete with high power class B or class D. now I know

it appears that it's dynamic power that counts. usual power ratings are calculated into sine waves (most likely 1kHz) into stable loads which yields maximum RMS rating, which says nothing about dynamic capabilities of an amp. in order to play music loud you need no more than 2Wpc RMS (sic!). even with moderately inefficient speakers it'll be plenty loud. with efficient speakers you'll need even less. even less than 1Wpc! anyway, the amp has to cater for dynamic peaks in the programme material (music) and that's where dynamic power comes to fore. in case of AMS35i it looks like this:

RMS power: 17V^2/ 8 Ohm = 36Wpc into 8 Ohm load (basically what is speced in the blurb)

dynamic power: 47Vpeak^2/ 8 Ohm = 276Wpc into 8 Ohm load (!)

data taken form MF's brochure for AMS35i. so, as long as those values for voltage delivery are not taken out of the air it means that AMS can easily play very dynamic material loudly in domestic environment without even breaking a sweat (no clipping)! I'm not quite sure about my calculations here but it may suggest dynamic headroom in excess of 24dB! provided you use AMS with suitably efficient speakers - such that will allow you to listen at 1Wpc RMS in your listening position. I'd expect anything around 90dB/1W/1m mark listened at 3m will suffice. that means that even hugely dynamic pieces, like philharmonic works, will be reproduced without clipping. sure it'll be on the edge of AMS's capabilities but does it really matter in the end?

I'd like to add here that I'm not trying to diss any of those horse power amps. if they can play a sine wave at 500Wpc or more into 8 Ohm load they definitely will not falter reproducing music. the thing is; you don't need all that power in your room! this is definitely very relieving info. you can easily go for a dynamic class A amp not worrying it will clip at some stage playing music. and thus you can enjoy the best sound quality (everybody knows class B is a no-go, not to mention class D). the only condition amp's designer has to meet is to equip the amp with a potent power supply (possibly with a large energy reservoir. unfortunately capacitor banks costs money) so it could recharge appropriately fast to be able to deliver enough voltage/ current exactly when asked for.

I thought you guys would like to hear about my recent findings.

I only wish I had similar Voltage delivery data for Pathos's amps... but I'd expect them to be very dynamic too. AFAIK power supply makes up bulk of the weight in those +40kg beasts (TT and Inpol2).

regards!

P.S. I think what I just wrote about dynamic power and RMS power requirements is nothing new to you, or it's nothing anybody reasonably thinking wouldn't come up with. but in face of wide spread propaganda that you need at least XXXXX Watts of power in order to fully appreciate listening to music in your home I thought I'd write this post. I also think that those who claim you need kilowatts of power to drive speakers simply don't get it.

 

[Roby]

In my imagination I see the inpol 2 as a bit in the middle between the powerful ams and the romantic jadis. Having a bit of ams but not as much and a bit of jadis but again not as much.

"It seems that Pathos designers and technicians have achieved the target of obtaining the "mirage of an iron fist in a velvet glove.""

I will try to go out and listen but can't promise anything. Maybe after the mention of official forum taster will be more motivated to do that , jocking of course. Stay reassured hat if I have an opportunity I will do and share my impressions with you.

appreciated

on another topic. it was always puzzling to me how a low power class A can even compete with high power class B or class D. now I know

it appears that it's dynamic power that counts. usual power ratings are calculated into sine waves (most likely 1kHz) into stable loads which yields maximum RMS rating, which says nothing about dynamic capabilities of an amp. in order to play music loud you need no more than 2Wpc RMS (sic!). even with moderately inefficient speakers it'll be plenty loud. with efficient speakers you'll need even less. even less than 1Wpc! anyway, the amp has to cater for dynamic peaks in the programme material (music) and that's where dynamic power comes to fore. in case of AMS35i it looks like this:

RMS power: 17V^2/ 8 Ohm = 36Wpc into 8 Ohm load (basically what is speced in the blurb)

dynamic power: 47Vpeak^2/ 8 Ohm = 276Wpc into 8 Ohm load (!)

data taken form MF's brochure for AMS35i. so, as long as those values for voltage delivery are not taken out of the air it means that AMS can easily play very dynamic material loudly in domestic environment without even breaking a sweat (no clipping)! I'm not quite sure about my calculations here but it may suggest dynamic headroom in excess of 24dB! provided you use AMS with suitably efficient speakers - such that will allow you to listen at 1Wpc RMS in your listening position. I'd expect anything around 90dB/1W/1m mark listened at 3m will suffice. that means that even hugely dynamic pieces, like philharmonic works, will be reproduced without clipping. sure it'll be on the edge of AMS's capabilities but does it really matter in the end?

I'd like to add here that I'm not trying to diss any of those horse power amps. if they can play a sine wave at 500Wpc or more into 8 Ohm load they definitely will not falter reproducing music. the thing is; you don't need all that power in your room! this is definitely very relieving info. you can easily go for a dynamic class A amp not worrying it will clip at some stage playing music. and thus you can enjoy the best sound quality (everybody knows class B is a no-go, not to mention class D). the only condition amp's designer has to meet is to equip the amp with a potent power supply (possibly with a large energy reservoir. unfortunately capacitor banks costs money) so it could recharge appropriately fast to be able to deliver enough voltage/ current exactly when asked for.

I thought you guys would like to hear about my recent findings.

I only wish I had similar Voltage delivery data for Pathos's amps... but I'd expect them to be very dynamic too. AFAIK power supply makes up bulk of the weight in those +40kg beasts (TT and Inpol2).

regards!

P.S. I think what I just wrote about dynamic power and RMS power requirements is nothing new to you, or it's nothing anybody reasonably thinking wouldn't come up with. but in face of wide spread propaganda that you need at least XXXXX Watts of power in order to fully appreciate listening to music in your home I thought I'd write this post. I also think that those who claim you need kilowatts of power to drive speakers simply don't get it.

Greatly explained

 

[CnoEvil]

RMS power: 17V^2/ 8 Ohm = 36Wpc into 8 Ohm load (basically what is speced in the blurb)

dynamic power: 47Vpeak^2/ 8 Ohm = 276Wpc into 8 Ohm load (!)

the only condition amp's designer has to meet is to equip the amp with a potent power supply (possibly with a large energy reservoir. unfortunately capacitor banks costs money) so it could recharge appropriately fast to be able to deliver enough voltage/ current exactly when asked for.

I took a less scientific approach......if the lights in the house dipped when the amp was switched on, it would do the business. >)

 

[Craig M.]

P.S. I think what I just wrote about dynamic power and RMS power requirements is nothing new to you, or it's nothing anybody reasonably thinking wouldn't come up with. but in face of wide spread propaganda that you need at least XXXXX Watts of power in order to fully appreciate listening to music in your home I thought I'd write this post. I also think that those who claim you need kilowatts of power to drive speakers simply don't get it.

i think it's probably worth pointing out that a lot of the more reasonably priced amps don't have massive dynamic reserves, and so a higher rms value probably is a useful thing to have.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

P.S. I think what I just wrote about dynamic power and RMS power requirements is nothing new to you, or it's nothing anybody reasonably thinking wouldn't come up with. but in face of wide spread propaganda that you need at least XXXXX Watts of power in order to fully appreciate listening to music in your home I thought I'd write this post. I also think that those who claim you need kilowatts of power to drive speakers simply don't get it.

i think it's probably worth pointing out that a lot of the more reasonably priced amps don't have massive dynamic reserves, and so a higher rms value probably is a useful thing to have.

true too. hence it would be useful if manufacturers quoted RMS power values along with dynamic power values. not everybody has access to oscilloscopes and sine wave generators to take measurements themselves.

 

[WishTree]

I took a less scientific approach......if the lights in the house dipped when the amp was switched on, it would do the business. >)

:clap: When I had Parasound Halo A21 (two of them) running in mono mode and triggered start, the MCB tripped! I knew they are beasty but such a thing never happened!!

 

[WishTree]

Roby, are you up for a trip to Netherlands to demo the Italian champion pathos?

Shure no problerm ;-)

You guys will have a blast with Inpol2. It is beasty, capable of delivering into many kinds of speaker loads, tube effect on midrange but SS overall and even the volume control is excellent.

The only thing that worried me back then is the Warranty. My Inpol2 had a dead channel and my dealer took care of everything - starting from sending a two man pick up / delivery to everything possible. Infact he even gave a stand by amp for the one month the amp was out of service. That was the only challenge I ever had. Since my Inpol2 had only dealer warranty for 12 months, I was more skeptical towards the second half of the year. If the dealer can offer a 5 year warranty then I will be peaceful on the Warranty side.

In Inpol2, There is a more possible tuning that could be done with Valves in the Pre-amp stage. I had two different set of tubes (4 each) for slightly different warmth. I am getting myself a tubeDAC to play with Tube rolling!!

I wish I heard the AMS35i to contrbiute more effectively on this thread

 

[WishTree]

Roby, are you up for a trip to Netherlands to demo the Italian champion pathos?

Shure no problerm ;-)

You guys will have a blast with Inpol2. It is beasty, capable of delivering into many kinds of speaker loads, tube effect on midrange but SS overall and even the volume control is excellent.

The only thing that worried me back then (beyond the power consumption as well as hindsight thoughts on speed of the amplifier) is the Warranty. My Inpol2 had a dead channel and my dealer took care of everything - starting from sending a two man pick up / delivery to everything possible. Infact he even gave a stand by amp for the one month the amp was out of service. That was the only challenge I ever had. Since my Inpol2 had only dealer warranty for 12 months, I was more skeptical towards the second half of the year. If the dealer can offer a 5 year warranty then I will be peaceful on the Warranty side.

In Inpol2, There is a more possible tuning that could be done with Valves in the Pre-amp stage. I had two different set of tubes (4 each) for slightly different warmth. I am getting myself a tubeDAC to play with Tube rolling!!

I wish I heard the AMS35i to contrbiute more effectively on this thread

 

[Neuphonix]

Other speakers I have listened to are B&W nautilus 801 (second hand), focal 1038be, & paradigm signature.

Certainly the floor standers all had more presence but as I said to Robbi, my space doen't require this now. The Diablos did sound forward, but certainly didn't lack warmth or bass.

Point taken about the source though. Both music & HT will come via the oppo nuforce. Should be OK, sounded sensational when listening at the dealer. At this stage I couldn't justify spending an exorbidant amaount on a new CD player.

I think the money would be better directed to some sore of DAC / streamimg solution. I have not focused too much on this area yet, just wanted to let the new amp/speaker combination settle down. I have read a bit about the M1-DAC & Clic, which both seem to review quite well. They guy I first heard the MF/Diablo combination with has the clic & seems to like it.

Hope I've done the right thing. I certainly haven't exercised quite the same level of research or patience that Alex and Robbi have! Never been my strong suite.

Oh well, maybe this won't be the last upgrade I go through! hehehe! >)

I want to reconnect at this post to share my experience with speakers also. I was as well a big fan of floor standing speakers and big in size as I thought the level of presence, power and excitement they could reproduce was second to none. I tried myself the key ref 205/2 and find them very nice and neutral speakers. Very revealing and detailed. I tried living voice, audio physics, proac, b&w 800 series, dynaudio, avalon and sonus faber.

What really got me thinking is when I heard the "small" auditor Cremona m from SF and after that the SF Guarneri memento. I was very impressed by those little beauties, the level of detail was astonishing and they were also very punchy and a pleasure to listen. I couldn't believe that such level of sound cold come out from such a small speakers. Hence another demonstration that size does t matter .

We will go out and listen at the diablos also, now you got me really curios about them

Hi Alex,

just a note on the Diablos if you do get a chance to audition them. Make sure that they are well broken in. Everything that I have read about them says that they can sound fairly ordinary until they have had around 200 hours of break in time.

Mine are sitting in quaratine at the moment becuase they are made of WOOD!!! OMG the anticipation is killing me! I am hoping & praying that some buerecrat get of his ass today & open the box to tick them off.

Hey Cno,

just on your work around with the HT /volume. How do you find it? Just allow the EQ from the AV to set the levels? Do you have some universal remote with both volumes programmed in or something like this? Do you just do it by ear or do you have some sort of system with the markings on the dial?

 

[CnoEvil]

Hey Cno,

just on your work around with the HT /volume. How do you find it? Just allow the EQ from the AV to set the levels? Do you have some universal remote with both volumes programmed in or something like this? Do you just do it by ear or do you have some sort of system with the markings on the dial?

In my case, for safety reasons, I didn't want to set the 35i on full volume in case the worst happened. I found that I was able to set the volume (MF) at 40 on the amp (L&R), and then adjusted the volume of the AV amp to match (on the speaker menu). I don't use the EQ, but your dealer may be able to advise how to apply EQ when using the pre-outs into an amp with no ht-bypass.

When I am watching 5.1, I simply set the volume of the MF to 40 and then work the whole thing with the AV amp remote as normal - which is very easy.......always remember to set it back to Zero when finished.

I don't own a Universal remote and set the 35i volume by hand.

BTW You have a very nice sub.

 

[Neuphonix]

For me the Yamaha AV has an EQ system called IPAQ which should allow me to balance the fronts with the rest of the set-up, with the AMS set at 12o'clock or 40 or whatever. Then my harmony remote can be programmed to have two volume controls. One small practical issue I can see is the visibility of the volume indicators on the AMS dial. Which made me think I might try to put some small markers of some sort.

I just often find myself ranginging by 10 -15dB on various movies / tv shows depending on how they are mastered.

If it was just me using the set-up I would probably be happy enough dealing with it. I'll just have to set up some sort of tutorial / instruction manual for the missus though! She shakes her head at me enough as it is! Or maybe I could get away with just buying her a small transistor radio to use when I'm not home