New amplifier: my long journey...

[WishTree]

The 35i has a few weaknesses, some of which you've discovered:

1. The volume on the Remote should be labelled "Too Loud" and Too Quiet".

2. If you connect a sub to the Pre-Outs, it sends out a thump when the amp is turned on/off.

3. The remote is too big, heavy and clumsy....I use a Linn one.

4. When the amp cools down, it can let out a few "settling cracks" like a radiator in an old house.

5. It uses a lot of power and gets very hot.

Where sound quality is concerned....well I don't have to tell you about that; I bet your speakers have never had such deep, powerful bass.

In some ways, it may be a matter of Emotion vs Excitement.

cno.. Dearly respect you for writing the above! :clap:

There are very few people on this forum who are willing to give the complete picture... especially I feel more so after reading that other thread on ADM9 speakers

 

[WishTree]

But I found it beautifully built, kind of amp that men cannot like...it has presence not only when it plays!! Remote is a piece of work as well, heavy and made in thick metal. I was a bit disappointed as I couldn't find the right volum level using the remote...it was either too soft or too loud. Have same problem with Jadis remote. But I guess this is very subjective argument...

Oh yeah.. I can imagine.. I saw Titan series from MF and I was like so impessed by the size. The Inpol2 was also a true beautifully grown beast.. 🙂 I can imagine the pure joy they bring to the living by sheer presence!

Regarding the volume control.. I know this might be out of context but there were few pages dedicated in my Classe (both the CAP as well as SSP) manual about how to tune the volume and the various possibilities of setting the volume increase ( I guess at lower volume the same knob turn gives more volume or vice versa). But with 100 points on the display and volume climbing in a different way (which I guess is also customizable) now I see the point in the Classe Manual!

If that is the only challenge, I guess some tuning could be done else where at source may be?

Very nice to read the review /impressions.. Pictures speak alot as well.. thanks for posting them.. eagerly await the dealer demo results with SF speakers.

 

[CnoEvil]

cno.. Dearly respect you for writing the above! :clap:

There are very few people on this forum who are willing to give the complete picture... especially I feel more so after reading that other thread on ADM9 speakers

It's very kind of you to say so, but where so much money is at stake, it seems only fair to give an assessment that has warts and all. There is, after all, two more potential owners of this heavy chunk of metal!.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

hi Acalex. I follow your thread with interest even though I don't contribute much. it's very interesting what you say about MF AMS vs. Jadis vs. Lavardin IT. I'm particularly concerned with MF vs. Lavardin performance evaluation. I had an opportunity to briefly audition Lavardin IT-15 at an audio show. I found this amp to be very good. very musical, very agile and very precise. however, I didn't feel I was missing any of those feats at home. so I rate Lavardin IT equally to my Pathos Classic One mkIII. however, my dream amp is ever since I plugged in my Classic One is Inpol (I mean, since Classic One is so darn good and it's more than less conventional amp and Inpol is completely different design to any other amp on the market, there may be something that may actually make it sound better than other amps on the market). anyway, having read your impressions I'm really beginning to consider the AMS as a path to upgrade too. however, could you also try out Inpol2 before you commit? I don't have a chance to listen to any of the two amps ATM. but I'd like to know how AMS fares stacked against Inpol? I guess you'd benefit from that knowledge too.

I remember some dealer told you it's no point auditioning Inpol since you already have Jadis. but somehow this view doesn't convince me.

 

[CnoEvil]

however, could you also try out Inpol2 before you commit? I don't have a chance to listen to any of the two amps ATM. but I'd like to know how AMS fares stacked against Inpol? I guess you'd benefit from that knowledge too.

I think Acalex should be promoted to the "Forums Official Taster".

 

[toyota man]

CnoEvil I second that motion well done that man🙂

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

however, could you also try out Inpol2 before you commit? I don't have a chance to listen to any of the two amps ATM. but I'd like to know how AMS fares stacked against Inpol? I guess you'd benefit from that knowledge too.

I think Acalex should be promoted to the "Forums Official Taster".

well, if I lived in Benelux too I wouldn't have to use any henchmen to do auditioning for me. unfortunately Cork is far from the centre of hi-fi Europe (well, any other centre of Europe for that matter).

 

[CnoEvil]

well, if I lived in Benelux too I wouldn't have to use any henchmen to do auditioning for me. unfortunately Cork is far from the centre of hi-fi Europe (well, any other centre of Europe for that matter).

Tell me about it! :wall:

 

[Neuphonix]

Hi everyone,

wow, what an interesting thread. Thanks for sharing your experience Alex, I have really enjoyed reading about your process.

I too have been going through a similar journey & wish I had found this earlier.

I am currently upgrading my system with a view to creating a combined AV / stereo system. I own a Yahama AVR which is fine for HT duties, but wanted to up the ante for my music listening. I don't listen to vinyl, just CDs & digital. I'm still researching options on the DAC/streaming side of things, but my main source is an Oppo BDP-93 with the nuforce extreme upgrade.

A friend had just set himself up with a MF AMS50/primo combination along with Focal Diablo Utopia speakers. Wow! So I went along to his dealer here in Sydney & spent time going over various options. It came down to the M6-500i or the AMS-35i for the amp, and a 100% certainty on the Diablos. I still have trouble convinving my brain to accept that such a sound can come out of a two way stand mounted speaker. They are certainly at the upper end of my budet, but to me are worth the stretch.

Alex have you listened to the Diablos with the AMS? If you haven't & it's not too late......

Anyway I have shipped a set of them over to Australia (much cheaper to import than buy locally), they should be here soon, the wait is killing me!!!

I'm still trying to sort out uncertainty on the amplifier howerever. As my usage is going to be at least 50/50 home theatre / music, the HT bypass feature of the M6-500i is very appealing. I know I can manage a work around with the35i, but to be honest it feels like a pain & the wife definitely won't appreciate it. The 35i is a more audiophile level product, but it still annoys me that it doesn't have this feature. Surely the top of the line signature series should have all the features of the models below & then some? Other minor gripes with the 35i were the size (won't easily fit into my rack) & the heat (it's a bit warmer over here in OZ, don't need a heater on during the summer!!!)

But....... the 35i sounded so much better! Silky, musical, detailed. I listen to alot of dance/electronic music & the extra level of detail in the bass was amazing. It certainly did more justice to the Diablos.

Even though I did find the amps cheaper overseas, I decided that I felt more comfortable buying it from a local dealer. I just thought that it being an electronic device if there were any problems, having local support would be more ideal. Plus the price difference was much less than the speakers.

I have the M6-500i set up at home now, works terrific. In the end, even though I knew I was compromising on the sound, the HT feature was too important. I could tell that the dealer thought I was not doing the right thing, although he did acknowledge the volume integration would be troublesome with the 35i.

But now I have that nagging thought in my head & it won't go away!!! Even though the 500i sounds great & integrates perfectly into an AV environment, how much better would the 35i be & could I(we!) live with the added inconvenience?

So I have spoken to the dealer & he is going to lend me the 35i for a few weeks to live with side by side at home. At this stage I'm pretty certain that if I can figure out a way to live with the volume issue I'm going to spend the extra money. Maybe it will just come down to sticking little volume indicator stickers on the dial! I'll let you know how I go.

Sorry if I've hi-jacked the thread, just wanted to share some more experiences with the AMS-35i, certainly a magical amp.

Thanks again Alex for your detailed experiences, it has been fascinating to read about your journey. I will be following with interest, look forward to hearing more. Let me know your thoughts on the Diablos if you get a chance.

best regards,

Michael

 

[CnoEvil]

Michael, you are most welcome to the forum......and don't worry about the hi-jacking, as Acalex is a generous soul, who thinks that "more" is "merrier".

It's great so many people are trying out the 35i, as for a while, I was a lone voice in the wilderness.

I have been where you are are re the HT by-pass, but having demoed the 35i at home, nothing else would do. I have a simple work-around, where the volume is set to a pre-determined position for AV.

Focal are not my favorite speakers (prefer Kef Refs) , but the best I ever heard them sounding, was on the end of a DCS Debussy Dac and a 35i.

Keep us posted on how you get on.

Cno

 

[Neuphonix]

Hi cno,

yes, I think i was possibly a bit impatient.

Although I know the 35i does sound superior but i thought it better to be honest about my usage habbits & so the HT was a must have. & I do have to say it works very well, it is good not to have to consider it when changning the volume during movies & tv. If they were all mastered at the same levels it would great.

I probably should have asked to borrow the 35i before taking the plunge. Oh well, the dealer has been great & we did talk about it at length. So I'll let the diablos break in & then borrow it. If it is a manageable thing then I will go for it. As I said I find it puzzling that MF didn't include this feature in the first place, bit annoying really.

Can I ask what it is that you don't like about the focals? I gave the electra 1038be a run & wasn't all that impressed, not bad but the Diablo utopia were in another league entirely. have you heard them?

 

[Roby]

Hi

Michael I can understand you choice, all trough I compared the M6 500i an the AMS 35i in the same demo with acalex. with dynaudio c1 speakers. We both came to almost the same conclusion on the M6 500i you can read this in this tread or in mine.

Anyway that's the day I was seduded by the AMS 35i, suddenly the feeling was there....an the AMS wasnot even warm as we where not planning to listen to it, it was stone cold.

Before that day I was convinced a class A was not for me because it have to warm up an except for the weekend I mostly put music on when I get up for less than 1h untill I go to work. I came back from that idear....an I'm happy about it (it's only sad for my wallet ;-) )

I still think the M6 500i is great it was just not for me.

I will give the focal's a try I know my dealer stock them

(Cno Kronos alo say it is a great match, what do you dislike or pefer on the kef ref's?)

We normaly planning a demo next week somewhere with Acalex.

 

[Neuphonix]

Hi Robbi,

yes I did read about your impressions of the M6, this thread has certainly added fuel to the fire of my nagging second thoughts about the m6 vs the 35i.

A classic case of impatience :wall: I spent so much time going around in circles in my head about which way to go. Lucky for me the dealer is willing to let me exchange & trade up should I wish to.

If I had never listened to the 35i with the diablos then i would probably think I was exactly where I wanted to be. Unfortunately he got me with the old "let him listen to the best first" sales method & now I know that I am missing something. Not that that is a bad thing, given the amount of money that I've blown the budet by this is certainly not a process I can afford to go through again any time soon.

I thought that I would be able to live with the M6 given the convenience of the HT bypass, but when I listen to music I know that I have settled for second best. One simple measure for me was the sound which comes through the speakers when there is no signal. The 35i is silent & the M6 has a hiss, not much but certainly an obvious difference.

The 35i has a silky, liquid sound. I took a range of music to demo, my main listening is dance/electronic & the depth in the bass was simply amazing. I have always had big floor standers with a massive sub which make the windows shake, but honestly, I couldn't believe that there was just so much down there that I was missing.

One of the contributing factors to my change of attitude (apart from an ongoing addiction :roll🙂 is that I now live in a smaller space & want less volume & more fidelity. Must be getting older 🙂

I do plan to buy a small sub (probably a velodyn DD10+) to add the 5.1 for HT, but I'm certain that the Diablo/35i combination will give me more than enough depth for my music listening.

Seriously though, make sure you give the diablos a go. As i said, I had to close my eyes to make my brain accept that such a sound was coming from a 2way stand mounted. Doesn't hurt that they look this biz as well & fit my smaller space a bit better.

 

[CnoEvil]

I will give the focal's a try I know my dealer stock them

(Cno Kronos alo say it is a great match, what do you dislike or pefer on the kef ref's?)

I gave some insight on my previous post, so I will try and answer your question re the Kefs -

The Kefs are a highly detailed reference speaker, but are a smidgeon warmer and less "in yer face". I find them slightly more forgiving on less good recordings and generally more musical, emotional and less analytical. If you are at this sort of money, the Kefs are a must listen (201/2; 203/2 or 205/2) and a great match with the 35i.

The Focals are the opposite end of the spectrum to Sonus Faber (with the Kefs more in the middle - but perhaps a little closer to the Focals). If you love one, you may well hate the other!

Have you been speaking to Kronos, as I have a lot of faith in both David and Gary?

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi cno,

yes, I think i was possibly a bit impatient.

Although I know the 35i does sound superior but i thought it better to be honest about my usage habbits & so the HT was a must have. & I do have to say it works very well, it is good not to have to consider it when changning the volume during movies & tv. If they were all mastered at the same levels it would great.

I probably should have asked to borrow the 35i before taking the plunge. Oh well, the dealer has been great & we did talk about it at length. So I'll let the diablos break in & then borrow it. If it is a manageable thing then I will go for it. As I said I find it puzzling that MF didn't include this feature in the first place, bit annoying really.

Can I ask what it is that you don't like about the focals? I gave the electra 1038be a run & wasn't all that impressed, not bad but the Diablo utopia were in another league entirely. have you heard them?

I fully understand that when combining AV with 2 channel, there can be competing priorities....and ease of use can be one of them. I even considered using the M6 Pre with the AMS 35P, so as to give me the HT-By-pass.....but the preamp in the 35i is much more capable. For me, sound quality is paramount, hence the no-compromise approach. IMO The 35i is so much more musical than the M6 series.....and now Acalex and Roby agree, having done a fair amount of comparison.

Re Focal - I have heard 3 of the Utopia range (Diablo, Scala and Maestro) on a variety of good electronics ranging from Moon, DCS, VTL, Electrocompaniet, Chord and MF AMS. Not surprisingly, with each step up in cost, brings an incremental improvement in sound.

What I like - They probably have the quickest, tightest and most controlled bass that I have heard, on any speaker of the equivalent size. The sound produced is very clean, detailed, exciting and dynamic, and it shines a spotlight on what is upstream of them.

What I dislike - Even though I respect their talent, I find them too forward for my taste. I hesitate to use the word "bright", but if not carefully matched, I find them fatiguing after a while.....this is why I like them best with Class A. I would worry that the combination with the 500i could become tiring, especially with less than perfect recordings. I would strongly recommend that you have a home demo with the 35i when you get them (if this is still possible).

The problem is, that at each price range, good as they are, I would rather spend the money elsewhere......what other brands have you listened to around that price point?

 

[Neuphonix]

Other speakers I have listened to are B&W nautilus 801 (second hand), focal 1038be, & paradigm signature.

Certainly the floor standers all had more presence but as I said to Robbi, my space doen't require this now. The Diablos did sound forward, but certainly didn't lack warmth or bass.

Point taken about the source though. Both music & HT will come via the oppo nuforce. Should be OK, sounded sensational when listening at the dealer. At this stage I couldn't justify spending an exorbidant amaount on a new CD player.

I think the money would be better directed to some sore of DAC / streamimg solution. I have not focused too much on this area yet, just wanted to let the new amp/speaker combination settle down. I have read a bit about the M1-DAC & Clic, which both seem to review quite well. They guy I first heard the MF/Diablo combination with has the clic & seems to like it.

Hope I've done the right thing. I certainly haven't exercised quite the same level of research or patience that Alex and Robbi have! Never been my strong suite.

Oh well, maybe this won't be the last upgrade I go through! hehehe! >)

 

[CnoEvil]

Other speakers I have listened to are B&W nautilus 801 (second hand), focal 1038be, & paradigm signature.

Certainly the floor standers all had more presence but as I said to Robbi, my space doen't require this now. The Diablos did sound forward, but certainly didn't lack warmth or bass.

Point taken about the source though. Both music & HT will come via the oppo nuforce. Should be OK, sounded sensational when listening at the dealer. At this stage I couldn't justify spending an exorbidant amaount on a new CD player.

I think the money would be better directed to some sore of DAC / streamimg solution. I have not focused too much on this area yet, just wanted to let the new amp/speaker combination settle down. I have read a bit about the M1-DAC & Clic, which both seem to review quite well. They guy I first heard the MF/Diablo combination with has the clic & seems to like it.

Hope I've done the right thing. I certainly haven't exercised quite the same level of research or patience that Alex and Robbi have! Never been my strong suite.

Oh well, maybe this won't be the last upgrade I go through! hehehe! >)

Out of the speakers you've listed, I too would have preferred the Focal.....so imo you just need to be careful with system matching, and not insert components that are too forward sounding or use silver coated cable.....btw what cable do you use?

When it comes to source, I think CDPs are on the wane, and streaming is the future. The best I've heard are the Linn DS range, starting with the Sneaky (around £900),which sounds like a fairly highend CDP.

 

[Neuphonix]

Audioquest Rockefeller speaker cables & Colorado RCA interconnects, fairly laid back.

I'm pretty happy with what I paid for the Diablos. I really would have preferred to support a local distributor but the price difference was up above 30%.

Given the amount I'm spending with them on the amp I don't feel too guilty about asking for their support.

 

[CnoEvil]

Audioquest Rockefeller speaker cables & Colorado RCA interconnects, fairly laid back.

I'm pretty happy with what I paid for the Diablos. I really would have preferred to support a local distributor but the price difference was up above 30%.

Given the amount I'm spending with them on the amp I don't feel too guilty about asking for their support.

I'm a fan of Audioquest cables....if you haven't done so, their mains cables are also worth checking out (once your new system has settled in).

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Neuphonix. re: your problem with lack of HT bypass in AMS. AFAIK HT bypass is simply an input in integrated amp that bypasses preamp section. so you could easily make your own HT bypass with what you have right now. choose variable out on your receiver, than use any line level input on AMS and crank up the volume to the full, i.e. no attenuation - full gain. and presto! your own HT bypass. you might consult Musical Fidelity for reassurance but I'm pretty sure they would confirm what I just said.

however, there's still an issue of voltage gains difference between different amps. I presume you'd be using AMS for fronts and centre and rears will be served by something else. it's always best to have the same amps powering a set of speakers in order not to have gains differences.

 

[Roby]

A classic case of impatience :wall: I spent so much time going around in circles in my head about which way to go.

:? Sounds familiar, but why :? Oh year me :wall:

 

[Neuphonix]

Audioquest Rockefeller speaker cables & Colorado RCA interconnects, fairly laid back.

I'm pretty happy with what I paid for the Diablos. I really would have preferred to support a local distributor but the price difference was up above 30%.

Given the amount I'm spending with them on the amp I don't feel too guilty about asking for their support.

I'm a fan of Audioquest cables....if you haven't done so, their mains cables are also worth checking out (once your new system has settled in).

They were the ones that the dealer was using, so again maybe a little more reasearch would have been justified. But given their recommendation & some of the things I found online it seemed like a safe bet. I would have preferred to go one model up for the speaker cables & bougth the Gibralters but the budget didn't quite allow for it.

Interesting what you said about the silver cables. Both the dealer & my friend used the Comet, which is a silver cable, with the Diablos & they sounded fantastic.

I do eventuallu plan to get a better power cable & maybe some sort of conditioning. I think first though I will run a dedicated power circuit for the AMS.

 

[Roby]

Have you been speaking to Kronos, as I have a lot of faith in both David and Gary?

Not exactly, I was surfing on the website an had chat with some Stacey. I had just a question about the warenty an ended up talking for more than 1h....

Anyway I think I will give theme a call this week it might help me decide if it's worth it...An then I will ask afther David or Gary.

Other question doe's the AMS come with 2 power chord's or do I need to buy one for Belgium?

 

[Neuphonix]

Neuphonix. re: your problem with lack of HT bypass in AMS. AFAIK HT bypass is simply an input in integrated amp that bypasses preamp section. so you could easily make your own HT bypass with what you have right now. choose variable out on your receiver, than use any line level input on AMS and crank up the volume to the full, i.e. no attenuation - full gain. and presto! your own HT bypass. you might consult Musical Fidelity for reassurance but I'm pretty sure they would confirm what I just said.

however, there's still an issue of voltage gains difference between different amps. I presume you'd be using AMS for fronts and centre and rears will be served by something else. it's always best to have the same amps powering a set of speakers in order not to have gains differences.

Hi Thanks for your response.

Forgive my ignorance but what is AFAIK? I'm not sure if my reciever has a variable output or not. I currently run the M6 via the front pre-outs, would this be variable?

Bit worried about leaving the AMS up at full volume though if this is what you are suggesting. I can just see the missus pressing the wrong button & my cones ending up splatted on the back wall!

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Neuphonix. re: your problem with lack of HT bypass in AMS. AFAIK HT bypass is simply an input in integrated amp that bypasses preamp section. so you could easily make your own HT bypass with what you have right now. choose variable out on your receiver, than use any line level input on AMS and crank up the volume to the full, i.e. no attenuation - full gain. and presto! your own HT bypass. you might consult Musical Fidelity for reassurance but I'm pretty sure they would confirm what I just said.

however, there's still an issue of voltage gains difference between different amps. I presume you'd be using AMS for fronts and centre and rears will be served by something else. it's always best to have the same amps powering a set of speakers in order not to have gains differences.

Hi Thanks for your response.

Forgive my ignorance but what is AFAIK? I'm not sure if my reciever has a variable output or not. I currently run the M6 via the front pre-outs, would this be variable?

Bit worried about leaving the AMS up at full volume though if this is what you are suggesting. I can just see the missus pressing the wrong button & my cones ending up splatted on the back wall!

sorry. sometimes you just get carried away thinking that everybody knows everything.

AFAIK = as far as I know

pre-outs are variable outputs. variable means the signal gets filtered by the preamp section before it's sent away. that way information about changed volume levels is sent with it. fixed level or line level outputs (like tape out) on the other hand send the full signal without attenuation.

that's a good point about AMS being left fully tilted and your missus. well the trick to it is to turn down the volume when you've finished using HT set up. otherwise it may end up as you describe.