New amplifier: my long journey...

[acalex]

Exaxctly.....unfotunatly this make me think......should I strech an extra 2000.... to make me happy. I was convinced by a cold AMS.

An this was not on my personal speakers of choice the idea's but on Dynaudio's C1's.... Incradable speakers for the size an not extreemly expensive (6000).

Altrough I have 2 month's to diside what I do with all this experiences an info.

The dealer said when he have the separate combo we will compare the amps (M6i, M6 500i, M6 pre&prx, AMS) I secretly hope the combo will be convincing, thhis will allow me to buy the TT at the same time. aotherwise I will have to wait for the TT change.

I hope your in Acalex should be really intresting

:? :? :?

When sombody in my 683 tread said this is a dangerous game & friendship, now I understand ;-) Well let me clarify I'm not complaning I still think this is a great experience an I still enjoy the search. I guess when it's done we will miss it

Roby, it is indeed a dangerous game but you can't come back once you heard the AMS...you will keep regretting how great it sounded...and start questioning yourself again in no time (devil is tempting :rofl.

That's why I was so glad when I found this amazing shop in Antwerp as he doesn't put any pressure on me...and above all I can pay month per month or whenever I have money to spend. We cut this deal and I was supersatisfied as I can control my expenses better but still enjoying the best gear. This is a great service that for me it is worth a lot as I wouldn't feel comfortable paying 6k eur at once...but like this I can afford more expensive stuff! :cheers:

 

[CnoEvil]

Exaxctly.....unfotunatly this make me think......should I strech an extra 2000.... to make me happy. I was convinced by a cold AMS.

When sombody in my 683 tread said this is a dangerous game & friendship, now I understand ;-) Well let me clarify I'm not complaning I still think this is a great experience an I still enjoy the search. I guess when it's done we will miss it

Once you fully understand how you like your music to sound (eg similar to the 35i), it is possible to get quite a long way towards it, without spending more money than you are comfortable with. The Sugden Masterclass IA-4 for example, while not being as good, could well give you the sound you are after, and remain in budget.

The more you listen to a wide variety of pertinent choices at different budgets, the more accurately you can determin your own individual performance vs cost (value for money) rung on the hifi ladder.

The problem comes where eveything you hear falls so far short, that it eats away at you until you finally give in. If you have taken a circuitous route to get there, it can be a lot more expensive than "biting the bullet" initially.

 

[acalex]

Yes, I also know where a Sudgeon dealer is in Belgium, not far from Brussels, I can give him a call and we can go listening to the Masterclass...would be very interesting also!

If you stick with the MF, I am convinced the choice for Roby will be either the M6i or the AMS35i! :cheer:

 

[paradiziac]

Once you fully understand how you like your music to sound (eg similar to the 35i), it is possible to get quite a long way towards it, without spending more money than you are comfortable with. The Sugden Masterclass IA-4 for example, while not being as good, could well give you the sound you are after, and remain in budget.

I was thinking the same when I read the comments earlier.

I would also add that the speaker/amp combo is significant. With a more sensitive speaker, the 35i might have comparitively less to offer over a cheaper Class A amp.

That said, if you're going to compare the 35i with Sugden, the Masterclass pre/power is the price equivalent model in the range >) ... or...with a sensitive speaker you might get a fair way towards the sound from a used A21a for just a few hundred notes

 

[CnoEvil]

I was thinking the same when I read the comments earlier.

I would also add that the speaker/amp combo is significant. With a more sensitive speaker, the 35i might have comparitively less to offer over a cheaper Class A amp.

That said, if you're going to compare the 35i with Sugden, the Masterclass pre/power is the price equivalent model in the range >) ... or...with a sensitive speaker you might get a fair way towards the sound from a used A21a for just a few hundred notes

All very valid points, but (and I have no way of proving it), the 35i would retain its advantage, even on sensitive speakers......the cheaper Class A amps would go louder, but still wouldn't compete with the clarity, resolution, bass definition and transient response of the MF.

 

[paradiziac]

I was thinking the same when I read the comments earlier.

I would also add that the speaker/amp combo is significant. With a more sensitive speaker, the 35i might have comparitively less to offer over a cheaper Class A amp.

That said, if you're going to compare the 35i with Sugden, the Masterclass pre/power is the price equivalent model in the range >) ... or...with a sensitive speaker you might get a fair way towards the sound from a used A21a for just a few hundred notes

All very valid points, but (and I have no way of proving it), the 35i would retain its advantage, even on sensitive speakers......the cheaper Class A amps would go louder, but still wouldn't compete with the clarity, resolution, bass definition and transient response of the MF.

Sure, my point was to suggest a way, via careful system matching, to get a "fair way towards the sound" if you haven't got a spare 5 or 6K for a 35i ... whether a "fair way" is far enough, only the individual can decide--depends on ears/wallet and the willingness (or not) to accept compromises.

 

[CnoEvil]

Sure, my point was to suggest a way, via careful system matching, to get a "fair way towards the sound" if you haven't got a spare 5 or 6K for a 35i ... whether a "fair way" is far enough, only the individual can decide--depends on ears/wallet and the willingness (or not) to accept compromises.

We're very much on the same page here, as it's all too easy to get carried away, and over-spend without seeing how close a cheaper option can get.....it was certainly not my intention to sound any way dismissive.

 

[paradiziac]

No worries, Cno. No offence taken or intended on either side.

It's just the limitations of the medium :type:

 

[acalex]

Thanks for your comments guys, really appreciate. Regarding me, I am almost settle with my speakers choice, need now to match the right amp to reach music Nirvana :cheer:

As far as I am concerned, I reached it when I plugged the Jadis with SFGuarneri Memento and used vinyl as a source. It was so full of emotions that it was impossible to forget.

I am now trying assess if the AMS35 is capable of the same type of performance when matched with those speakers (claimed as a 88db speakers with 35min amplifier). I have been trying the AMS vs a "normal" Jadis d50S (mine as KT90 instead of the 88) but with not very tube friendly speakers. That's why I am now waiting so much to compare the AMS35 vs "my Jadis" using those dream speakers. Hopefully it will happen soon, not vey easy to get a MF demo here in Belgium.

I am also interested to hear what a Sudgeon pre+pwr amp can do compared to the AMS...but funnily enough the dealer at the shop in Bx said he preferred the AMS35i over the twice more expensive combo Primo+AMS35p in terms of "magical sound". He claimed the combo to have more energy, even better bass than the integrated but lost a little bit of emotions...

 

[CnoEvil]

I am also interested to hear what a Sudgeon pre+pwr amp can do compared to the AMS...but funnily enough the dealer at the shop in Bx said he preferred the AMS35i over the twice more expensive combo Primo+AMS35p in terms of "magical sound". He claimed the combo to have more energy, even better bass than the integrated but lost a little bit of emotions...

Given you corrected my spelling of Jardis/Jadis, it seems only fair that I correct your spelling of Sugden.

Edit. If you haven't seen this, it might be worth a read: http://hometheaterreview.com/sugden-masterclass-preamp-and-mono-amps-reviewed/

 

[acalex]

I am also interested to hear what a Sudgeon pre+pwr amp can do compared to the AMS...but funnily enough the dealer at the shop in Bx said he preferred the AMS35i over the twice more expensive combo Primo+AMS35p in terms of "magical sound". He claimed the combo to have more energy, even better bass than the integrated but lost a little bit of emotions...

Given you corrected my spelling of Jardis/Jadis, it seems only fair that I correct your spelling of Sugden.

Edit. If you haven't seen this, it might be worth a read: http://hometheaterreview.com/sugden-masterclass-preamp-and-mono-amps-reviewed/

Indeed, thanks a lot!

Thanks for the article also, let's see if I can further complicate my choice eventually

 

[acalex]

Well well well...with my friend Roby we went hunting for something different this time...and we found another nice shop in Antwerp stocking the Sudgen Masterclass IA4. A quick phone call and Roby arranged a demo for this morning.

We went there with lots of cd and differen type of music as usual.

Shop is very nice with a cosy listening room sitting at around 3 meters from speakers. When we finally got there the Sudgen was already sitting and well warmed, very good. It actually gets as hot as the AMS35i in my opinion.

We started with the speakers Roby has now, the B&W 603 (Roby am I wrong)? CD Player was as well the same Roby is using now (always forget the brand but it's around 600 eur). So conditions were quite different from the AMS35i demo

Starting with the usual...but we soon realised he was impossible to give the amp justice and understand all its potential with the speakers and CDP (both very good in their price range but a bit out of contest with a 5k eur amp) we were using.

We then connected the Proac D18 (speaker cables were around 1000eur) and a Mitchell Gyro TT. All different story...

The Masterclass is truly a beautiful amp! Very musical, detailed, airy...great midrange. It was great with instruments and voices...really enjoyed the different LPs played. To be fair the speakers were a limit in this combo...but the guy didn't have in stock the D28 so we used those.

Cno will for sure ask me how I rate the Masterclass vs the AMS :read:

Well, I will start saying that competion was not fair as I never heard the AMS with speaker costing less than 8k eur...BUT

I think the Masterclass is slightly less detailed and musical than the AMS, less powerfull in the bass department (don't get me wrong, plenty of bass but the AMS is really out of competition at this regard) and a bit less dynamic. I think the AMS was slightly faster and punchy...but hey, was really not an huge difference. Roby also loved it and he put it on top of his list for now as it also has a phonostage included....

In the end I really loved it and I realised that if I am not taking a tube amp I really want a class A. The Msterclass is really a stunning amp...weighting much less than AMS35 (around half weight) but sucking from the main the same amount of juice more or less (the dealer mentioned something around 400W).

In the end, connecting a great class A amp like the Sudgen to "normal speakers" I realised today how great is the Jadis I have at home (connected for now to Monitor Audio RX6) as I recognised certain specific songs being better at home (especially vocal pieces with an acoustic guitar).

On a specific song which I know very well (Keb mo) played on vinyl I heard something which I didn't like too much and I never experienced at home with Jadis and monitor audio. The sound of the drum's plate was too metallic...it actually sounded almost artificial. Same effect on the same CD and on the flac played through a 8k eur DAC. Actually the flac version was the best one...but still this sound was present, not sure if it was the amp or the speakers though.

More will come next week when I will be taking home the Lavardin IT. Btw, the Mitchell Gyro TT sounds VERY good for the price!

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno will for sure ask me how I rate the Masterclass vs the AMS :read:

Well, I will start saying that competion was not fair as I never heard the AMS with speaker costing less than 8k eur...BUT

I think the Masterclass is slightly less detailed and musical than the AMS, less powerfull in the bass department (don't get me wrong, plenty of bass but the AMS is really out of competition at this regard) and a bit less dynamic. I think the AMS was slightly faster and punchy...but hey, was really not an huge difference. Roby also loved it and he put it on top of his list for now as it also has a phonostage included....

In the end I really loved it and I realised that if I am not taking a tube amp I really want a class A. The Msterclass is really a stunning amp...weighting much less than AMS35 (around half weight) but sucking from the main the same amount of juice more or less (the dealer mentioned something around 400W).

In the end, connecting a great class A amp like the Sudgen to "normal speakers" I realised today how great is the Jadis I have at home (connected for now to Monitor Audio RX6) as I recognised certain specific songs being better at home (especially vocal pieces with an acoustic guitar).

On a specific song which I know very well (Keb mo) played on vinyl I heard something which I didn't like too much and I never experienced at home with Jadis and monitor audio. The sound of the drum's plate was too metallic...it actually sounded almost artificial. Same effect on the same CD and on the flac played through a 8k eur DAC. Actually the flac version was the best one...but still this sound was present, not sure if it was the amp or the speakers though.

You have pretty much summed up the difference that I believe exists between the 35i and IA-4.....The MF just does everything that little bit better, but there is no doubt that the law of diminishing returns comes in to play....though I suspect that difference would get bigger, as the speakers get more expensive.

With speakers that have impedance that drops down low, the MF has the better chance.....but I suspect this is where Roby should go, provided he can live with the power consumption.

Once again, great insight and a very interesting read.

 

[acalex]

On the way out from the shop I saw a Pathos product...the Classic one hybrid 2x70W.

He said he used to stock the Logos also but was sold and the guy who was importing Pathos is not doing that anymore...so no chance to hear any Pathos unless we drive over 200Km in another country.

The dealer anyway reassured me when he hears I have the Jadis D50 as he thinks I am better of with this than the Inpol2...who knows :rofl:

 

[Macspur]

Alex,

As good as Pathos is, you're nearly at your journeys end... don't get sidetracked by other brands... you're nearly at your journeys end!

Cheers

Mac

 

[acalex]

Alex,

As good as Pathos is, you're nearly at your journeys end... don't get sidetracked by other brands... you're nearly at your journeys end!

Cheers

Mac

Eheh, you are right...still want to assess the Lavardin IT (with and without Lavardin cables). The choice will be probably between AMS35, Jadis D50 and Lavardin IT. Really loved the Sudgen but I do think AMS is a bit better and it still remains in my budget.

 

[acalex]

For now the ranking is this one

- Jadis DA50RC Signature

- AMS35i

- Sudgen IA4

- Lavardin IS Reference with lavardin cables

Jadis is still at first as I have heard through SFG Memento...and it was unforgettable. I am afraid to try the AMS with SFs

Cno...what would you expect by matching the AMS with the Guarneri? :shhh:

I am curios to see where the Lavardin IT will go..and the Perreaux 250 which will be on demo next week...

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno...what would you expect by matching the AMS with the Guarneri? :shhh:

:rant: :rockout: :dance: :bounce: >) :help: :wall: :read: :wave:

:cheers:

Cno

 

[WishTree]

Cno...what would you expect by matching the AMS with the Guarneri? :shhh:

:rant: :rockout: :dance: :bounce: >) :help: :wall: :read: :wave: :cheers: Cno

:rofl:

 

[acalex]

Cno...what would you expect by matching the AMS with the Guarneri? :shhh:

:rant: :rockout: :dance: :bounce: >) :help: :wall: :read: :wave: :cheers: Cno

I knew! :wall: :cheer: :help:

 

[acalex]

Well...just back from my favorite shop. Picked up a bit of stuff...it will be fun tonight

 

[acalex]

Now it's unpacking time

 

[WishTree]

Now it's unpacking time

Looks like you will be having a great evening !! Have fun

Can you please give me the pricing (retail or discounted) for Jadis DA50RC Signature vs MF AMS35i vs Lavardin IT?

 

[acalex]

Now it's unpacking time

Looks like you will be having a great evening !! Have fun

Can you please give me the pricing (retail or discounted) for Jadis DA50RC Signature vs MF AMS35i vs Lavardin IT?

Jadis = 6k

Musical Fidelity = 7.5k

Lavardin IT = 6.4k

Retail prices in euro...

 

[El Hefe]

Aaahhh you are using Muddy Waters as your demo tracks. Or did you purchased both lavardin and ams?