My first Hi-Fi system doesnt sound quite right

[the record spot]

They're right, a 4" bass driver can't reproduce low bass, but it will the harmonics, and from that our brains deduce the actual note, or close to...

Indeedy. Just listening to Tales From Topographic Oceans and Chris Squire's bass is doing some rather impressive stuff!

 

[the record spot]

This bass argument is actually quite interesting We need to define 'deep bass' - I have to say in my experience I have heard small drivers produce deep bass from smallish boxes, in fact my speakers have pretty small drivers ( the boxes measure 80x17x30 the bass cone being 6inches) and they produce bass you can feel rolling through the floor when ready. Its everything to do with the power being fed to them and the quality of the bass being produced, loud distorted bass from large drivers give the the impression of 'deep bass' ( its that what the eyes see we assume thing). Although its usually just the volume and the air these drivers can shift, Where as well controlled textured, tunefull bass from small speakers may not be percieved as deep bass, but close your eye's (remove the visuals and you may be suprised at the frequencies passing through your cloths and through your chest which when aided by a well dampened room will suprise most in a blind test. I think this is a great 'Readers challenge' for the mag..

Good post and neat idea!

I agree about the idea around benchmarking "deep bass". Give me a clean and articulate bass that doesn't sound bloated or thump all the way through the CD. Tom toms are another success story, very realistic.

 

[the record spot]

So long as you're clear on that, it is.

Tut tut. Have to get in the last word, eh? I was letting it go even though you've insulted me several times needlessly and refuse to accept reality.

Please make a buffoon of yourself without me from here on in, you're doing a good enough job up to now. Deep bass :doh:

My word, so many assumptions, and none of them right. Good effort!

Nothing to do with the last word, I thought you'd finally seen my POV but plainly not. That's not my problem, so I shall leave you with it.

I've insulted you? Yes, I think you are a troll. No apologies this time. I think you're deliberately going about this but that's your choice. I have no idea why anyone would over an adjective, but I'll assume you may have an OCD and I hope you can deal with it.

If you knew me at all, you'd realise how pointless your comment about "refuse to accept reality" is. You have 9 posts on here, though I imagine quite a few elsewhere. I can disregard this allegation happily as it's a castle built on sand.

As for making a buffoon of myself, remove the beam from yer ain een afore ye cast doots aboot the wee speck oan mine eh? There's good chap.

 

[Anonymous]

So long as you're clear on that, it is.

Tut tut. Have to get in the last word, eh? I was letting it go even though you've insulted me several times needlessly and refuse to accept reality.

Please make a buffoon of yourself without me from here on in, you're doing a good enough job up to now. Deep bass :doh:

My word, so many assumptions, and none of them right. Good effort!

Nothing to do with the last word, I thought you'd finally seen my POV but plainly not. That's not my problem, so I shall leave you with it.

I've insulted you? Yes, I think you are a troll. No apologies this time. I think you're deliberately going about this but that's your choice. I have no idea why anyone would over an adjective, but I'll assume you may have an OCD and I hope you can deal with it.

If you knew me at all, you'd realise how pointless your comment about "refuse to accept reality" is. You have 9 posts on here, though I imagine quite a few elsewhere. I can disregard this allegation happily as it's a castle built on sand.

As for making a buffoon of myself, remove the beam from yer ain een afore ye cast doots aboot the wee speck oan mine eh? There's good chap.

I'm confused now. Are you still saying that your speakers do reproduce deep bass? Or just that they reproduce deep enough bass for you?

Given your saying you don't like lean bass, I presume it's the former? So after everything that I and others have said, you are still insisting that your very very small speakers actually do reproduce deep bass?

You have no clue what deep bass is. That is the only thing to conclude. Well, that, and you lack manners!!

 

[Tariqv]

Having read your kind advices I have checked some speaker positioning advices on the net and in Tannoy's manual as it seemed like there was nothing in particular wrong with my system. So after verifying that all cables were set up correctly I proceeded to see if the speakers were aligned correctly, at which point I noticed, due to the floor's crooked surface, that the speakers were not facing in the exact same direction, i.e one was facing down and to the right while the other was facing slightly upwards and to the left; moreover they were not the same distance from the wall behind, one was about 53cm and the other 58cm. After adjusting the spikes and the distance I now have a fuller more engaging listen. All said I still have to raise the volume to hear all the music better especially for bass but also for the rest of the sound spectrum. Nonetheless the system is a soft and open sounding one which is more on the treble side than bass, which I do prefer, though does deliver bass quite generously when asked.

I will listen to some more rock recordings soon and report here after a longer auditioning.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Brib7 ...pls define 'deep bass' in your view.

 

[the record spot]

I'm confused now. Are you still saying that your speakers do reproduce deep bass? Or just that they reproduce deep enough bass for you?

Please tell me, with not only this thread, but the means to use a search function as is provided on this forum you haven't worked this out yet? No, really, please tell me this isn't the case?

Yet another hint: :read:

 

[Anonymous]

Brib7 ...pls define 'deep bass' in your view.

I don't think I could define it to be honest, but I'm pretty sure you won't get it from tiny speakers with 4 inch drivers. Do you agree?

 

[the record spot]

Brib7 ...pls define 'deep bass' in your view.

I don't think I could define it to be honest, but I'm pretty sure you won't get it from tiny speakers with 4 inch drivers. Do you agree?

Hahahahaha, seriously mate, I hope you like omelette. You've got enough egg on your face after today to feed a regiment.

Tell you what, are you near Edinburgh? Drop by if you are. Open offer, I'll crack open the beers. F*** me I need one now. :rofl:

 

[Anonymous]

I'm confused now. Are you still saying that your speakers do reproduce deep bass? Or just that they reproduce deep enough bass for you?

Please tell me, with not only this thread, but the means to use a search function as is provided on this forum you haven't worked this out yet? No, really, please tell me this isn't the case?

Yet another hint: :read:

What on earth are you on about? :roll:

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Brib7 ...pls define 'deep bass' in your view.

I don't think I could define it to be honest, but I'm pretty sure you won't get it from tiny speakers with 4 inch drivers. Do you agree?

No, I've come across some small speakers probably 4 to 6 inches with huge magnets hanging off the back of them that can do very deep bass. To be fair you should check out the specs on those DC4s , 87db sensitivity 200watt into 8ohm with a qualty amp those speakers will produce frequencies.

But its a pointless argument unless you define your perception of deep bass, then we would have some point of reference - i genuinly think this is an interesting argument at its core,,,,seriously.

 

[the record spot]

I'm confused now. Are you still saying that your speakers do reproduce deep bass? Or just that they reproduce deep enough bass for you?

Please tell me, with not only this thread, but the means to use a search function as is provided on this forum you haven't worked this out yet? No, really, please tell me this isn't the case?

Yet another hint: :read:

What on earth are you on about? :roll:

After all of this thread, where I've tried to put across in words that might explain where I am coming from, you still haven't grasped my point?

Sir, I don't believe that the issue here is mine...now, where's that rolleyes thingmybub....?

 

[the record spot]

But its a pointless argument unless you define your perception of deep bass, then we would have some point of reference - i genuinly think this is an interesting argument at its core,,,,seriously.

Yes, agreed, but without a definition from our friend what he think deep bass is - and I suspect he means the abilities of a speaker to reach those low notes you get from piano, double bass, etc, and give you something like a believeable return - then this discussion is a non-starter.

 

[Anonymous]

Brib7 ...pls define 'deep bass' in your view.

I don't think I could define it to be honest, but I'm pretty sure you won't get it from tiny speakers with 4 inch drivers. Do you agree?

No, I've come across some small speakers probably 4 to 6 inches with huge magnets hanging off the back of them that can do very deep bass. To be fair you should check out the specs on those DC4s , 87db sensitivity 200watt into 8ohm with a qualty amp those speakers will produce frequencies.

But its a pointless argument unless you define your perception of deep bass, then we would have some point of reference - i genuinly think this is an interesting argument at its core,,,,seriously.

Sure, there are some smallish speakers that can reproduce punchy bass, PMC DB1i's and Dynaudio DM 2/6 spring to mind, but if memory serves me, they have 5 inch drivers, and it's debatable whether their bass output would be considered deep.

These minituare Tannoy's have 4 inch drivers and only go down to 67 Hz apparently, they cannot reproduce deep bass, they just won't move enough air.

I suspect the other poster would have been better off just admitting this from the start, it doesn't make them bad speakers, they may be lovely sounding little things, but his insistence that they reproduce deep bass is plain daft, moreso considering his admitting hearing Tannoy westministers, now they can reproduce deep bass.

 

[the record spot]

These minituare Tannoy's have 4 inch drivers and only go down to 67 Hz apparently, they cannot reproduce deep bass, they just won't move enough air.

I suspect the other poster would have been better off just admitting this from the start, it doesn't make them bad speakers, they may be lovely sounding little things, but his insistence that they reproduce deep bass is plain daft, moreso considering his admitting hearing Tannoy westministers, now they can reproduce deep bass.

Here's something else that'll make you choke on your cornflakes tomorrow morning, in the right room, these speakers will deliver a bigger sound than many folk would give them credit for. You included presumably. Lovely big wide soundstage.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Brib7 ...pls define 'deep bass' in your view.

I don't think I could define it to be honest, but I'm pretty sure you won't get it from tiny speakers with 4 inch drivers. Do you agree?

No, I've come across some small speakers probably 4 to 6 inches with huge magnets hanging off the back of them that can do very deep bass. To be fair you should check out the specs on those DC4s , 87db sensitivity 200watt into 8ohm with a qualty amp those speakers will produce frequencies.

But its a pointless argument unless you define your perception of deep bass, then we would have some point of reference - i genuinly think this is an interesting argument at its core,,,,seriously.

Sure, there are some smallish speakers that can reproduce punchy bass, PMC DB1i's and Dynaudio DM 2/6 spring to mind, but if memory serves me, they have 5 inch drivers, and it's debatable whether their bass output would be considered deep.

These minituare Tannoy's have 4 inch drivers and only go down to 67 Hz apparently, they cannot reproduce deep bass, they just won't move enough air.

thats the thing, your talking about 'shifting air' thats volume, its not frequency range - 4, 5, 6 inches - there are speakers that produce good quality bass with small drivers, with the right amp - maybe not the volume/loudness but Bass.

but to the pair of you I say agree to disagree - lets shake and call it a day......

 

[Overdose]

Here's something else that'll make you choke on your cornflakes tomorrow morning, in the right room, these speakers will deliver a bigger sound than many folk would give them credit for. You included presumably. Lovely big wide soundstage.

You forgot to add 'so there' and maybe a sticky out tongue smilie.

 

[the record spot]

I suspect the other poster would have been better off just admitting this from the start, it doesn't make them bad speakers, they may be lovely sounding little things, but his insistence that they reproduce deep bass is plain daft, moreso considering his admitting hearing Tannoy westministers, now they can reproduce deep bass.

Haha, you're just showing up your ignorance. For the love of the Hoff, this is beyond priceless. They're great speakers, they produce a great bass for their size in the right room. The problem is your understanding, or lack of it. Not mine mate. :read:

Wouldn't it just be easier if you admitted you can't see beyond the end of your nose, or that you missed the salient point in your interpretation (or lack of it really) in my posts? You're so far off the beaten path, I doubt the Ordnance Survey has a map for you...

 

[the record spot]

Here's something else that'll make you choke on your cornflakes tomorrow morning, in the right room, these speakers will deliver a bigger sound than many folk would give them credit for. You included presumably. Lovely big wide soundstage.

You forgot to add 'so there' and maybe a sticky out tongue smilie.

A good point well made:-

So there! The eye of newt will follow tomorrow.

 

[the record spot]

but to the pair of you I say agree to disagree - lets shake and call it a day......

LOL, yes, but it's such fun...! Anyway, here's another review of the DC4 that I think covers off it's strongpoints and it's not so strongpoints pretty well.

http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/tannoy_dc4_e.html

 

[Overdose]

First off, apologies to the OP, but this has already gone way off into the rough.

Most of the reviews seem to say that the DC4s, lovely as they are, are a bit bass light. They may well be absolutely fine in some situations and for some people (for you they are and for you that's all that really matters), but this argument is one of prespective and all things being equal, a bigger driver will always give a more authorative and greater frequency range of bass.

From the various published online graphs of the DC4s the drop from 67Hz is pretty steep and even at just before the 67Hz, the signal seems to be 6dB down on the mean frequency range dB level.

So IMO, I'd say that the DC4s wouldn't do 'deep bass' especially well, unless deep bass was considered to be over 67Hz.

 

[Anonymous]

First off, apologies to the OP, but this has already gone way off into the rough.

Most of the reviews seem to say that the DC4s, lovely as they are, are a bit bass light. They may well be absolutely fine in some situations and for some people (for you they are and for you that's all that really matters), but this argument is one of prespective and all things being equal, a bigger driver will always give a more authorative and greater frequency range of bass.

From the various published online graphs of the DC4s the drop from 67Hz is pretty steep and even at just before the 67Hz, the signal seems to be 6dB down on the mean frequency range dB level.

So IMO, I'd say that the DC4s wouldn't do 'deep bass' especially well, unless deep bass was considered to be over 67Hz.

Spot on!

 

[the record spot]

Yes, but we're talking about two differnet kinds of "deep" here Bribby old son...you don't seem to have understood that at all and you apparently still don't. Still, do carry on by all means.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, but we're talking about two differnet kinds of "deep" here Bribby old son...you don't seem to have understood that at all and you apparently still don't. Still, do carry on by all means.

Nonsense, you responded to the first person to question your silly claims in a narky manner, rather than just saying the bass is satisfactory for you, and you've been twisting words, casting aspersions and generally behaving like a big condescending baby ever since!

The What Hi-Fi review tallys with most of the rest of the reviews, and with logic, in that your speakers - however good they may be - simply do not, and cannot, reproduce "deep bass".

End of story!

 

[the record spot]

]Nonsense, you responded to the first person to question your silly claims in a narky manner, rather than just saying the bass is satisfactory for you, and you've been twisting words, casting aspersions and generally behaving like a big condescending baby ever since!

The What Hi-Fi review tallys with most of the rest of the reviews, and with logic, in that your speakers - however good they may be - simply do not, and cannot, reproduce "deep bass".

End of story!

No, you took my comments out of context, didn;'t check and despite my clarifications, you still can't get it into your little head that your fixated on "deep bass" as meaning one thing and one thing only. Your problem matey boy lies with you. Yes, you. End of story eh? Methinks not...

Here is the first comment I made where I mentioned "deep":-

"In my room, they give good bass. Deep, tuneful and controlled. Now, how you want to interpret what the book says, that's your issue, but for me, the reality is I don't feel shortchanged. Moreso with the HK amp which really goes deep"

Yes? Right off I have made it clear in my room - as the room interaction is important - and I have described that bass, in my room remember, as I have done in the first sentence. I then clarify that for me the bass doesn't leave me feel shortchanged. The HK amp is a neutral amp but digs deep as well. The two work well together.

You reply:-

"What Hi-Fi say they do"

Which to my mind is a non-answer. So what? That's in WHF's room, it's not representative of every room. It's not representative of mine. I'm sitting 6feet or so from the speakers. I get a good level of bass as is alaso reflected in the TNT-Audio review link I posted. Your problem is what, that I used the adjective "deep" to describe some of the bass I get back, but that that term doesn't mean in your eyes what it should? Behave. You've been fixated on that word ever since, so it's not my problem that you;re not willing to accept multiple clarifications and leave it be. It merely shows you up in a poor light. I stand by my views and comments about this speaker and will happily defend them in context. Please note - in context!

There's no issue for me here, you have your view and I have mine, except your issue is around a word and that was cleared up ages ago. You're stuck on a theory, you've not heard the speaker at all, and you've not heard it in my room. I read spec sheets too, but I value experience and hearing an item. Shame you haven;t got the good grace to accept that.