my DREAM system. oh, maybe one day...

Page 7 - Seeking answers? Join the What HiFi community: the world's leading independent guide to buying and owning hi-fi and home entertainment products.
A

Anonymous

Guest
Thanks for the response - I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying your system. It really would be difficult to top those speakers.

Actually, it was precisely because I wanted to avoid 'upgraditis' that I took your advice and went for the best I can afford rather than making lots of sideways moves to my current humble system. Once I put it all together I can't really envisage making any substantial changes for the next 5 years or so - and those that are made, as you suggest, will probably be at the source as the technology gets better.

the news about the ADM40s was posted on HDD audio

Thanks again for your time

Dave
 

AlmaataKZ

New member
Jan 7, 2009
295
1
0
Visit site
So the new remote is on the way but as you do not need the remote itself to program it (you do it on a PC using Pronto Edit Pro v2) I already started to set it up. Theoretically, the whole set-up can be done without the remote so you just need to load the set-up on the remote and off you go, but in reality it will definatley need some testing and fine tuning.

I think I am about half-way in programmming it. the most difficult part will be setting it up for wifi and getting it work with iTunes in two-way mode i.e. show playlists, track info, album artwork etc. as I am not familiar with this part of set-up.

The editing program, PEP v2 is very good. Much better than the one with the old Marantz - more intuitive and flexible interface so despite the fact that it is more advanced than the Marantz it is actually easier to use. Some early screenshots...
 

AlmaataKZ

New member
Jan 7, 2009
295
1
0
Visit site
An observation...

I sent the Benchmark away for firmware update so connected the source computer to the digital input on the Marantz (and then pre-outs to speakers) so I can listen to music while the Benchmark is away. The sound was completely different this way - there is more bass and it is 'boomy'. I did not expect that much of a difference! so the DAC (edit: or more likely the DSP) in the Marantz must be producing a bit of different output compared to Benchmark's dac - in a bassy way...

Now I see why - in my normal setup when Benchmark is fed from marantz (in HT bypass mode: bluray-marantz-benchmark-speakers) - when I watch movies the bass output of the system is significantly higher than with music system (music: mac-benchmark-speakers), so I have to dial the sub down by 2-3 clicks when I watch movies.
 

jaxwired

Well-known member
Feb 7, 2009
284
6
18,895
Visit site
AlmaataKZ, love the cord hider. That really tidy's up that mess of cables. Looks wonderful. I need to try that for my computer desk. That's even worse than hifi gear!

You've definately taken your system to the ultimate level. Well done. When can I come over and watch a movie with you? My wife and I are planning a UK visit once our boys are a bit older...that would be a blast.
emotion-4.gif
 

AlmaataKZ

New member
Jan 7, 2009
295
1
0
Visit site
Oh, just let me know when you are travelling and you will be welcome! But I need some notice - I will need some time to put a demo playlist together, you know...

So we can have a real drink together. Not that virtual nonsense!
emotion-1.gif
emotion-22.gif
 

AlmaataKZ

New member
Jan 7, 2009
295
1
0
Visit site
2011 plans:

- put together a shortlist of in-ear headphones with ipod controls and multiple balanced drivers. the list of models with ipod contorls is short but growing. the challenge will be getting to listen to those before buying...

- wait what apple releases this year as updates for ipod touch and iphone (my current one is more than 3 y old now and the battery is not so good any more). I want a big one - so I can put more lossless music on it. 128 Gig would be good but I think chances of apple releasing a 128 gig touch are only abt 50% adn iphone at abt 30%.
 

steve_1979

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2010
231
10
18,795
Visit site
WOW what a system! I've just read this whole thread from beggining to end for the first time and what an interesting read it was. Thanks AlmanntaKZ for all the photos and updates you've added over the months.

To What Hifi - It would be nice to see an edited version of this thread printed in the magazine, I think alot of people would enjoy reading it as much as I did.
 

john1000000boy

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2007
240
5
18,795
Visit site
Agreed!! A very good insightful thread and explained and illustrated excellently!! I think this is the sort of thing that readers like to read about rather than those countless pages and pages of tvs!!!
 

AlmaataKZ

New member
Jan 7, 2009
295
1
0
Visit site
thanks, john1000000boy!

I do not mind when all the TV stuff is in addition to the HiFi stuff. I, too, would mind if it was instead of it, though...

... but even then, if it is a reflection of the sales split, is there anything the publishes or the readers can do? I am afraid not.
 

AlmaataKZ

New member
Jan 7, 2009
295
1
0
Visit site
I am now tweaking the remote - full of pics at the moment as I was practicing with graphics.

Now need to try to integrate itunes control via wifi... with this thing called prontotunes.
 

AlmaataKZ

New member
Jan 7, 2009
295
1
0
Visit site
This weekend I plan to do a comparison: the current main system as is (mac-dacpre-active speakers) vs

- Squeezebox Touch playing directly to active speakers (analog out and using SB's volume control),

- SB touch digital out to dacpre and then to the speakers.

Should be an interesting one.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
john1000000boy:
snip... I think this is the sort of thing that readers like to read about rather than those countless pages and pages of tvs!!!

Completely agree with this. Watching a system evolve really brings things to life. Great system btw
emotion-21.gif
 

AlmaataKZ

New member
Jan 7, 2009
295
1
0
Visit site
Really struggling with options for in-ear headphones - putting a shortlist together is easy. Choosing what to buy (by listening) - impossible.

The recent Apple announcement did not bring an update fot ipod/iphone so more waiting is required. Also, the fact that the ipad 2 did not get a storage capacity bump makes such a bump less likely for the next iphone/ipod. Hmmmm....
 

AlmaataKZ

New member
Jan 7, 2009
295
1
0
Visit site
After a heads-up from another forum member and this HFN article

http://whathifi.com/News/Unique-Melody-earphones-can-be-tailored-for-your-ears-and-eyes/

I looked at the UM web-site and surprise surprise! - they have a free demo available. So I expect a pair to turn up for a demo tomorrow. Finally, an option to try a multiple-driver in-ear monitor for yourself!

No sure ways to comapare to other makes yet but hope is not lost - there may be a couple of options here, too. I will mention these if and when they materialsie.
 

BenLaw

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2010
475
7
18,895
Visit site
Glad you now have at least one demo option AlmaataKZ
emotion-1.gif
They certainly look the business and, while pricey, as you've said elsewhere they actually cost less than the direct competition. You never know, they may sound so good you won't even feel the need to demo anything else
emotion-1.gif
 

AlmaataKZ

New member
Jan 7, 2009
295
1
0
Visit site
OK, fellow WhatHiFi-ers, here is a set of my impressions from a demo set of UM Miracle.

This is a 3-way 6-driver (2 low, 2 mid, 2 high) balanced-armature in-ear custom headphone with detachable cable. They are made in China and the dealer tells me that they use ‘the same drivers as any other custom maker”. A bit of a wide statement, but who knows, I do not have any details about the drivers so he may be right.

This is of cause a demo copy so the shape of the shell is a generic one and instead of a proper custom fit (made from one's own ears) this has universal silicone tips as any other in-ear headphone. Because of this it is not possible to "demo" the fit, only the sound and even when testing the sound it is not possible to test it completely as the fit of an actual custom mould would be different and the fit is of cause quite important for in-ears.

My previous experience with in-ears is limited. I use Apple in-ears (which are 2-driver balanced-armature). They were a massive improvement in terms of sound, fit and convenience of control over the kit buds (the kit buds do not sound any good as you may know). As it is almost impossible to get any demos with this kind of gear, that is the only comparison I can do.

So, at a price of about 800GBP, although cheaper than most if not all other custom-makers, there have got to be special. Expectation is high and I think justifiably so.

So, here is the packaging.

5520917620_97407e9186_o_d.jpg


5520917746_db2866aa5a_o_d.jpg


The box is large and decidedly average quality. Two sets of silicone universal tips.

5520327011_f458c5196b_o_d.jpg


5520326657_15e9953072_o_d.jpg


5520327179_13d1eb34f2_o_d.jpg


5520327327_067da00c6c_o_d.jpg


The cable is OK but I would say nothing special in terms of quality. There are mouldable wires in the top part as with most custom earphones. Cable is detachable. The connectors are basic ‘fork plug’ but fit firmly.

5520327631_9f71c20df3_o_d.jpg


5520918946_d8e14d0112_o_d.jpg


The headphones themselves feel I say 7 out of 10. Again, nothing special. The shell is hard (I expected it to be soft or at least softer). What I did not like is that the holes for the cable connectors do not have metal surroundings but have a layer of plastic all around them. That means that after several month of handling the edges around where the connector plugs in will almost certainly start to chip off. Not something I would want to see on any expensive gear.

The fit of the demo version was uncomfartable (and actually on one side painful after a while). I do not consider that a drawback as it is understandable that a good fit is just not possible here as it is a custom thing. So I only have to praise Unique Melody and the dealer very highly for providing demos as nobody else seem to be able to do it.

5520919216_acd0b79641_o_d.jpg


5520328381_486fe2eb37_o_d.jpg


So, I made a side-by-side comparison with the apple ones, playing from 2gen ipod touch (lossless files) and from Squeezebox Touch (16/44 and 24/96 files). I have misplaced the 3/6mm headphone jack adapter so could not test with the Benchmark.

The miracles must be more sensitive as they play louder at he same volume setting. In terms of sound quality the Miracles had a slight improvement in highs and lows. The highs are a tiny bit lighter (or are they just a bit louder?). the lows are a tiny tiny bit cleaner (or are they just quieter?). The mids seem to be about the same.

I listened and listened looking for differences but there aren’t many. I was really surprised there is no mind-blowing or at least significant difference . The price certainly suggests a much bigger improvement to what I could discern. Nope, there was no anything like that.

5520919426_09dc2ef808_o_d.jpg


The conclusion I make for myself is to stick with the apples until they fall apart (and that will be about a months I think as they already started). If I do not find another make/model that improves on them I will get another apple pair.

Also, I think the less than special quality of the box is simply unacceptable at the price. I would also expect the cable fittings to be impeccably made at the price (or at least be well above average) as well as the connector to be reassuringly highly durable.

So, a bit of a disappointment? Yes. Bad product? No. Good product? I am not sure - becaue of the price and lack of comparison at similar price level. Worth 800 quid? Not for me.

Definatley more comparisons needed. I wonder what the likes of Ultimate Ears, Westone, ACS etc are like.

I am probably a bit too harsh with these impressions but I was not impresssed as far as I was expecting. Maybe the apples are already good enough, the law of diminishing returns etc. Or maybe I am not discerning/experienced enough in headphones. Myabe the real custom fit can improve things further but for me the verdict was very clear. I am not prepared to spend that much money for that little improvement.
 

Superaintit

New member
Feb 8, 2009
100
0
0
Visit site
If those 800 quid earbuds don't sound noticibly better then your apple ones, send them back!

Buy some Klipsch X10 instead. I have a pair. It's great for use with an ipod.

They are miles better then the sennheiser 300 something in ears that I also own. Subtle, dynamic, natural ,musical.
 

AlmaataKZ

New member
Jan 7, 2009
295
1
0
Visit site
Thanks, Superaintit. This is a free demo pair, so they are going back.

Th ething is this is the only demo I could find. I would love to have a demo of x10 or any other good in-ear, but the demos are very hard to find.
 

AlmaataKZ

New member
Jan 7, 2009
295
1
0
Visit site
waiting for the next update of ipod touch and iphone.

my phone is abt 7 yo - ancient! - and the itouch more than 3 yo. So I want to finally combine two gadgets into one but for this I need minimum 64 gig (128 even better) so I can have most of my music on it in lossless (currently cannot on 32 gig).

I wonder what apple is going to release this year ?...
 

AlmaataKZ

New member
Jan 7, 2009
295
1
0
Visit site
A bit of evolution in using the main system - the bass side of things:

If you have been through the thread, you may have noticed that with the old system I originally had sub settings that gave too much mid-bass and none low-bass.

I then re set it up to go lower and not have that much of a bump in mid-bass. It sounded much better.

I then replaced the old system with the new one - Monitor Audio M3 to active ATC 50s and Rel Q100 to ATC C4. The new setup had deeper and faster bass by design/spec and originally I settled on sub volume at 1 click below max setting (I thought it seemed too high a setting but thought it was compensating for the difference of levels of Phono rca output (sub) and speakers (balanced xlr).

Several month into the new system and having listened with/without sub I felt I had to turn the sub volume down a click and then another 2. It just felt better. overdoing it felt wrong after some time with the new system.

Another couple of months later - today - I felt I needed to turn the knob on the sub another click down. That is total 4 clicks down from the original setting or nearly 1/3 of the overall adjustment range down!

I think what is happeningm is that I am trying to get the speakers+sub to sound as 'non-boomy' as the speakers alone.

I have been overdoing it so much!

If one year ago somebody said that I am overdoignit I would have thought they did not know what they are talking about. Now I know myself I was overdoing it.
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
14
0
Visit site
The same thing happened me when I bought my first sub......the temptation to think "I've got a sub, so let's hear what this baby can do", was overwheming.

Then, as you say, a few months later you realize...less is more.

Cno
 

AlmaataKZ

New member
Jan 7, 2009
295
1
0
Visit site
Thanks!

OK, let's try Squeezebox Touch + active ATCs. Here is the David and Goliath duo:

5398115727_b2350fc96f_d.jpg


The back of the Touch has power in, optical and coax digital out, analog out, USB port, ethernet port, headphone out, reset button. Not a bad set of connections for such a small box.

5398717516_df202c2c58_d.jpg


Connected to the MacMIni via ethernet/router and coax digital and analog outs to the Benchmark.

5398717736_d6a3e1da72_d.jpg


I play some tracks from my favourites on various bitrates up to 24/96, digital and analog.

I find no fifference in sound. OK, there may be subtle differences, but nothing justifying peeping into. After a very short listening session I find the sound excellent either via analog (i.e. using the Touch's dac) or digital (i.e. using Benchmark's dac).

I then try connecting the SB to ATC directly using RCA-to-XLR adapters. (Safety note: read this if you want to do something like that http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Connecting_directly_to_a_power_amplifier )
It works no problem, sounds OK (except some crackling between tracks for some reason). Normal listening level is reached at about 40-50 vol on SB. I tried putting it up to 80 at which point it is just under as loud as I ever listen. I did not try going over 80.

So, the SB Touch and the combo is excellent. I find it absolutely wonderful that to play all your music (and in hi-rez if you want) all you need today is not so many diminutive boxes. Gear like the SB Touch and Sonos are really amasing and more and more gear like those come out every month.

Look at it! the pic below is ALLyou need (ok, apart from a pair of cables) to play all your music collection without leaving your chair - in hi rez, with large display, remote control, with multiroom, loads of functions etc etc. SB Touch would power a USB hard disk and play directly from it no computer necessary.

5398116473_91b65b251b_d.jpg


Wonderful time for hifi, I say! If only itunes store had everythign in 24/96! ...
 

AlmaataKZ

New member
Jan 7, 2009
295
1
0
Visit site
... some changes are coming...

Have to move to a smaller flat soon and this will impact both the main and the second systems:

Main: the tv and bluray player will be left behind in the old flat so will have to get new ones. For tv I am thinking adding an inch of size and slimming on screen thicknessreducing weight. not bothered abt 3D. something like this maybe http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004TB4XWW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

for bluray, either the latest cheapest model from Sony http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-S380-Blu-ray-Player-Internet/dp/B004L2KO7M/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1308998959&sr=1-1 or, since I like my hifi in small boxes, one of these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-BD-D7000-Blu-ray-Design-Player/dp/B004S5ZQSE/ref=sr_1_20?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1308999007&sr=1-20. There is a slight problem with the Samsung as it does not seem to have discrete remote codes. I need those. So most likely the Sony.

second system: a bit less simple. the objective is to reduce footprint and box count while increasing sound quality. I took some advice here http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/small-speakers-required-must-be-special and, subject to demos, i probably sell the sub, speakers and denon and buy AVI9.1 (+maybe a smaller sub) and feed avi's from squeezebox's digital out.

Any further advice on what to get - for both systems?

also, just ordered silicone custom sleeves from ACS. Will fit them to a new pair of apple 2-driver in-ears which I quite like for their excellent sq per pound and convenient remote control.

sleeves1.png
headphones20080909.jpg
 

TRENDING THREADS