Cheap systems....

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I've been looking for a Rotel RCD 975 for ages but they seem to be pretty rare. I have an RCD 970 and they are very similar but always fancied getting hold of a 975 as well.


For budget systems nowadays it's hard to beat a cheap Topping or SMSL DAC and a cheap class D amp from 3e Audio, Topping, SMSL, Fosi etc and then buy whatever speakers you can afford.
I'm lucky enough to own a Rotel RDD980 CD Transport and a RDP980 the companion DAC. I love them both and would thoroughly recommend keeping your eye out for this combination. Old but great.
 
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I have seen one or two of those on ebay. The 975 seems rarer!
I wouldn't mind one of those myself but I just haven't got the space! I saw a bit of a bargain at Smart Home Sounds, check link below 🙂





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Or



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If you're looking a cheap system based around a streamer DAC, like the WiiM Ultra, Smart Home Sounds have knocked off £60 from normal retail price, and they will price match if you found cheaper elsewhere.


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Also from the same vendor, if you're looking a cheap system based around analogue source and this is slightly above £500.


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Add the above WiiM Ultra streamer and you got pretty much the best of both worlds for an outlay of approx. £800.

Ok, I should be working. People are paying their Council Tax and I should be providing a service to the greater community, signing off for now! 🙂
 
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I think the cheapest way to a decent hifi sound, is a good set of Bluetooth headphones, streaming music off a mobile phone. I use Austrian-Audio Hi-X25 BT on holiday and get 90% of the sound quality I get from my home system.
 
Sorry Topping but I believe demos are essential. If you buy blind, based on reviews alone, it often goes pear shaped. The amount of people who mess up because they don't demo is staggering.

Ten, twenty years ago, yep, I could buy that.

These days? Not so much. You can pretty much buy blind and be almost guaranteed to get good sound with £1,000.

In fact, John Darko did exactly that a year or two back and bought £1,000-worth of three components off Amazon. Did very well from memory.

I haven't trialled instore for almost 15 years. That was when I bought a pair of Tannoy DC4 speakers. Since then online only.

Does it work well? For sure.

You usually get at least 14 days, other retailers or brands give you more. You get to trial against your own gear, in your own room. No brainer.
 
Ten, twenty years ago, yep, I could buy that.

These days? Not so much. You can pretty much buy blind and be almost guaranteed to get good sound with £1,000.

In fact, John Darko did exactly that a year or two back and bought £1,000-worth of three components off Amazon. Did very well from memory.

I haven't trialled instore for almost 15 years. That was when I bought a pair of Tannoy DC4 speakers. Since then online only.

Does it work well? For sure.

You usually get at least 14 days, other retailers or brands give you more. You get to trial against your own gear, in your own room. No brainer.
A good few years ago I demoed the then new Cyrus Lyric with Tannoy Precision standmounts, it was way too bright. By contrast, RS salesperson had a Roksan amp he connected to the Tannoys and that sounded nicely balanced.

Unless I'm familiar with a particular brand, which I could take a punt, demos are the best way to decide which combo works best for you and the rest of your system. It saves all the faffing, long-term, and saves the seller from unnecessary frustration.
 
A good few years ago I demoed the then new Cyrus Lyric with Tannoy Precision standmounts, it was way too bright. By contrast, RS salesperson had a Roksan amp he connected to the Tannoys and that sounded nicely balanced.

Unless I'm familiar with a particular brand, which I could take a punt, demos are the best way to decide which combo works best for you and the rest of your system. It saves all the faffing, long-term, and saves the seller from unnecessary frustration.

Personally, I hate wasting a dealer's time.

What frustration? They post it out, you listen, buy, or return. No different to listening instore then deciding at home later that, ah, not for you. But then, you've bought it instore and the dealer doesn't have to take it back. Who's frustrated then?

All you mentioned was something you heard in a shop and the dealer suggested something else. Alternatively, you do a bit of legwork beforehand, read up and do the homework. All my current system, all of it, was bought blind. Works a treat too.
 
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Personally, I hate wasting a dealer's time.

What frustration? They post it out, you listen, buy, or return. No different to listening instore then deciding at home later that, ah, not for you. But then, you've bought it instore and the dealer doesn't have to take it back. Who's frustrated then?

All you mentioned was something you heard in a shop and the dealer suggested something else. Alternatively, you do a bit of legwork beforehand, read up and do the homework. All my current system, all of it, was bought blind. Works a treat too.
That's fine. It works for you, I'm rather more cautious when it comes to spending my hard earned.

I do a lot of legwork before deciding.
 
Each to his own.

Buying online and using return policies and distance selling regulations sounds great on the surface, but unless it works out, it's a PITA for everyone. As a buyer you have the hassle of beginning the returns process, passing the item(s) to the courier and waiting what is sometimes several days for the refund (up to 10 working days in some cases, to give the retailer/warehouse time to check the condition of the returned items. Sometimes, you also incur the courier costs.

For the retailer, it means additional logistics, processing time (including the condition checks and refund), and stock they then have to sell at a discount. Their margin is squeezed by both the cost of the time, and the reduced selling price. Margins on a lot of electronics and speakers aren't that great in the first place, and these are businesses, not altruistic organisations. It isn't a great experience for either side.

Research is a very good thing to do, I agree, but looking at a spec sheet (which can be more or less accurate depending on the manufacturer) only goes so far, and the rest is down to the personal opinions of others. Most of the YouTube reviewers are a bit crackers TBH, and there are only a couple I would hold much confidence in. There's a bit more chance of getting it right if you know the general signature sound of the brands, but that can be quite variable too, for example the Radia A5 is quite a different sounding amplifier to the SA10. Those who didn't get on with the latter because it was slow and dirge-like sounding (including me) might discount the newer model without hearing how much more drive and rhythmic prowess it has.

If you're re-purchasing things you had in the past, this can be done a little more confidently, but aural memory can be deceptive, and if buying secondhand, different examples of the same make and model may have aged differently due to amount of use, operating conditions, the quality of any repairs, differences in replaced capacitors etc.
 
Each to his own.

Buying online and using return policies and distance selling regulations sounds great on the surface, but unless it works out, it's a PITA for everyone. As a buyer you have the hassle of beginning the returns process, passing the item(s) to the courier and waiting what is sometimes several days for the refund (up to 10 working days in some cases, to give the retailer/warehouse time to check the condition of the returned items. Sometimes, you also incur the courier costs.

For the retailer, it means additional logistics, processing time (including the condition checks and refund), and stock they then have to sell at a discount. Their margin is squeezed by both the cost of the time, and the reduced selling price. Margins on a lot of electronics and speakers aren't that great in the first place, and these are businesses, not altruistic organisations. It isn't a great experience for either side.

Research is a very good thing to do, I agree, but looking at a spec sheet (which can be more or less accurate depending on the manufacturer) only goes so far, and the rest is down to the personal opinions of others. Most of the YouTube reviewers are a bit crackers TBH, and there are only a couple I would hold much confidence in. There's a bit more chance of getting it right if you know the general signature sound of the brands, but that can be quite variable too, for example the Radia A5 is quite a different sounding amplifier to the SA10. Those who didn't get on with the latter because it was slow and dirge-like sounding (including me) might discount the newer model without hearing how much more drive and rhythmic prowess it has.

If you're re-purchasing things you had in the past, this can be done a little more confidently, but aural memory can be deceptive, and if buying secondhand, different examples of the same make and model may have aged differently due to amount of use, operating conditions, the quality of any repairs, differences in replaced capacitors etc.

Buying online is no more or less a PITA for anyone than it is buying gear in a store and then you need to return it because there's a problem with the gear.

But let's say you do need to return something you bought online - you mention all the steps Matt, but the "hassle" is notifying the seller / dealer that the item's not for you or it's faulty and you return it. You might get a prepaid return, esp if faulty, after that, you just book the courier and they pick the item up. Return within 48 hours, tracked, job done. Refund issued within a week usually.

Why are we considering the retailer here? I'm purchasing in good faith with my hard earned tax dollars. The retailer is selling in good faith. They choose to sell online as well as maybe instore too, so they know what they sign up to when they opt to sell online. I've zero issues with a minor inconvenience for the retailer, but let's call this what it is - it's business.

And it's "not a great experience"? It's no worse than going into a dealer and asking if you can swap an item if you get it home and don't like it with your own setup and they tell you "well, we ... might ... be able to do something" (but mega non-committal) which is a massive red flag before the ultra-sucks experience that that would be.

Remember those days before buying online was an option? Sometimes, if you knew a dealer well, they'd let you take a bit of gear home and try it out for a weekend, or a day or two midweek. I'm not sure there's a whole lot of difference there than buying/trying via online really. Less if you consider you don't need to traipse into town (I'm 35 miles from the nearest dealer these days) with the kit you've borrowed, parked up somewhere, then lugged the thing back into the shop. So phoning a courier to do the lugwork sounds like a godsend to me.

I couldn't tell you one YouTuber that does reviews. I do occasionally catch John Darko's stuff, but he's been in the game for years at 6 Moons and a bunch of other titles long before he went into the online media sphere. See also Paul Rigby (The Audiophileman) formerly of the Hi Fi World parish. When I bought the Alva ST turntable from Cambridge, I picked up the What Hi Fi review - a 3 star one - and bought the deck. The review was a poor affair and other reviews elsewhere were more illuminating with more insight so it was easy to disregard the WHF one. The Cambridge 200M DAC was an easy pick, great sounding, fantastic connectivity and a winner, I use it mainly with the Wiim Pro Plus streamer, but occasionally with one of the spare CD players I have. The review sources include Stereophile, 6 Moons, Darko and Rigby, Hifi+, and a few other titles. These days, you can get accurate information on the product without relying on a half-page review that's barely worth the paper it's printed on.

Buying secondhand always comes with a caveat, but I've been pretty fortunate with my purchases there and kind of know what I'm looking for. The system is mostly set, the AVI actives aren't going anywhere soon, so I don't need to worry about amps or preamps, the hobby for me these days is mainly centred around older / vintage CD players from the likes of Kenwood, Pioneer and Sony. The box-swapping stopped years ago, the path to madness I found!

The main retailers I go with these days would be Tyson's who had a great sale a year or so back with Chord cables - the prices on my preferred Fisual Havana XLs went up and the Chord Shawlines were a very good price for a while, so I stocked up on several of those and a couple of pairs of the Clearways. Tyson's have been very good otherwise, much in the mould of Richer Sounds, although to be fair, I think the last thing I bought from RS was the Cambridge 752BD back in 2014 (and which is still in fine working order)!
 

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