Macspur said:
Let me know how this goes.....and FWIW I think you are wise going for the GR first.
Let me know how this goes.....and FWIW I think you are wise going for the GR first.
acalex said:
- How are you getting on with the P/C on your DS?
- Is BR on the cards for this weekend?
- Any movement on the Atlas cable front?
I was at my dealer yesterday, and mentioned the Vertere cable conundrum. He said that Touraj spent 3.5 to 4 hours setting up the systems for the musical evening....using a variety of setup discs and tones (this dealer is very experienced, but said that Touraj had skills in this area that he could not match - so it's worth picking his brain).
He also sells Atlas and TQ, and says, when Vertere is placed in a system that's correctly set up, the result is as good as anything he has heard.....very detailed and very musical (which is what I heard). He also said that it is crucial that a properly trained person should help you set the thing up, given the cost of the cables you are looking at.
Edit. Your dealer (Francis) has a Cardas GR Power cord and i/c listed on his website......it might be worth trying (he should also have access to the Clear Light): http://www.technologyfactory.eu/index.php?item=cardas&action=page&group_id=41&lang=EN
CnoEvil said:
Certainly will.
Dealer has agreed to loan me the GR and also suggested I try another couple of SC's
Audience AU 24 and Analysis plus big silver oval.
Before sending them though, he has asked me to Email a photo of my room and describe what I am looking for and any issues I may have, as he is keen not to sell me products unnecessarily.
Mac
Not much time these days to listen and post :help:
In the meantime my booming problem completely disappeared after having added another Siltech power cable and the Siltech power block (the Octopus Signature). Needs now carefully to assess if the same result can be achived spending less.
No news from Vertere, Atlas, BR so far...
In the meantime my booming problem completely disappeared after having added another Siltech power cable and the Siltech power block (the Octopus Signature). Needs now carefully to assess if the same result can be achived spending less.
No news from Vertere, Atlas, BR so far...
- Jan 17, 2012
- 75
- 10
- 18,545
Sorry Guys
Efther an excessive climbing session yesterday, I had not much Energy left for my impressions on the UB.
First of all UB & Graphite are bothe part of the good stuuff I tested untill now.
Personaly in my system I think the UB are better as they give me the feeling being more agile than the graphite certenly in the low end.
The detail is exceptional. But this all makes it a bit to agressive to my taste an on some albums this is really enyoyable but overol on most of my music it get the tendency being to much almost metalic an tiering.
The grafit where more laid back an musical but sounded haevier so a mix between those 2 cables would be a dream
mean a mix between the 2 would be perfect the More warm an musical sound of the graphit with the agility an punc of the UB...
So bothem line is that to me the 330L are still an overal winner, not being better in certain depatments certenly where the 2 others excels but being a better overal compromise. Detail, musicality, bass, punch etc it's all there. an never overwelming
Now I'm going to leave the UB on untill next weekend an than I will try the Kimber select 3033 that I took home from Francis.
But to be honest it look like 330l will do the job more an more....
I mean certenly if you look VFM I mean Graphite could be my choice but it's almost double the price an UB are a little more expensive so....even if I realy liked the TQ cables even with ther respectively pro an cons...
The 330l being a slightly better match in my system untill now an bieng slightly cheaper for me.....
But you never know what kimber will ad to this research.....
Efther an excessive climbing session yesterday, I had not much Energy left for my impressions on the UB.
First of all UB & Graphite are bothe part of the good stuuff I tested untill now.
Personaly in my system I think the UB are better as they give me the feeling being more agile than the graphite certenly in the low end.
The detail is exceptional. But this all makes it a bit to agressive to my taste an on some albums this is really enyoyable but overol on most of my music it get the tendency being to much almost metalic an tiering.
The grafit where more laid back an musical but sounded haevier so a mix between those 2 cables would be a dream
mean a mix between the 2 would be perfect the More warm an musical sound of the graphit with the agility an punc of the UB...
So bothem line is that to me the 330L are still an overal winner, not being better in certain depatments certenly where the 2 others excels but being a better overal compromise. Detail, musicality, bass, punch etc it's all there. an never overwelming
Now I'm going to leave the UB on untill next weekend an than I will try the Kimber select 3033 that I took home from Francis.
But to be honest it look like 330l will do the job more an more....
I mean certenly if you look VFM I mean Graphite could be my choice but it's almost double the price an UB are a little more expensive so....even if I realy liked the TQ cables even with ther respectively pro an cons...
The 330l being a slightly better match in my system untill now an bieng slightly cheaper for me.....
But you never know what kimber will ad to this research.....
acalex said:
I am assessing the Atlas 4 way mains block at the minute: http://www.napthineporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Atlas-Eos-Power-Products-Press-ReleaseEmail.pdf
It is beautifully made and might be a contender if you can get away with four sockets. It's not cheap, but I think is much cheaper than the Siltech.
In case you haven't seen it, here is Atlas's technical paper on their mains products: http://www.atlascables.com/assets/files/pdfs-technical/Atlas_Cables_Vol2__vs4.pdf
I will also be trying a 6-way from a company called Titan Audio.........atm it is only a proto-type that has been sent to my dealer to check out; but the only problem with it (for me), is that it has no surge protection for the hifi (unlike the Atlas which has a very sophisticated one so it doesn't effect the sound). If this isn't a must for you, it could be a very neat solution (made of perspex) and probably more affordable than the Atlas.
Roby said:
IMO. That is likely to be Cardas Golden Ref or Clear / Clear Light or indeed Atlas Mavros.......Francis seems to be a Cardas dealer and has a GR i/c and p/c on his website that I linked to (page 45 / post 15).
Any cable that is a little tiring to listen to at this stage, is likely to become more annoying over time.
CnoEvil said:
Very interested to see how you get along with the Atlas and the Titan Audio also. Siltech is way too expensive...
acalex said:
I know.....the Atlas is really a little too expensive, but more manageable, especially if it brings an improvement and protects the kit. Russ Andrews and Clearer Audio also do them (and have a trial period).
Will report in when I have come to some sort of conclusion.
Had a response from the dealer following the receipt of photos of my room and system.
I may be wrong, but got the feeling he didn't really want to send the gear for home trial.
Here's his response;
Good Morning Eamonn
Thank you for the pictures, it has given a much clearer idea now.
You sit far too close to your speakers (which I realise the situation), your speakers are virtually against the wall and you listen with a hard wall against you head.
I also noticed you have a slab of granite under the equipment is correct?
From what I can see the issue for you is physical space to correctly set up the speakers. General rule of thumb, however far the speakers are apart you need to have the listening position at least the same distance preferably greater, which I realise would be an issue.
Suggestions, isolation plinths/platforms under the speakers, remove the granite, better speaker cable, and try some reposition of the speakers Eamonn.
Speaker isolation ideally you will need to fully decouple the stands/speakers completely from the floor, try some Sepele plinths on the fllor and the speakers on top of those and isolation under the plinths.
Mac
I may be wrong, but got the feeling he didn't really want to send the gear for home trial.
Here's his response;
Good Morning Eamonn
Thank you for the pictures, it has given a much clearer idea now.
You sit far too close to your speakers (which I realise the situation), your speakers are virtually against the wall and you listen with a hard wall against you head.
I also noticed you have a slab of granite under the equipment is correct?
From what I can see the issue for you is physical space to correctly set up the speakers. General rule of thumb, however far the speakers are apart you need to have the listening position at least the same distance preferably greater, which I realise would be an issue.
Suggestions, isolation plinths/platforms under the speakers, remove the granite, better speaker cable, and try some reposition of the speakers Eamonn.
Speaker isolation ideally you will need to fully decouple the stands/speakers completely from the floor, try some Sepele plinths on the fllor and the speakers on top of those and isolation under the plinths.
Mac
Macspur said:
What he is saying very much tallies with what I believe.
- You should ideally form an equilateral triangle with your speakers, which really need a bit of space behind them (unless from Audio Note).
- Wood, especially Plywood (or something like Ayre Maple Blocks) can work better from an isolation POV. I use Granite, but it is isolated from the rack, and the equipment is isolated from the Granite.
- De-coupling the speakers from a suspended wooden floor is something that I am always banging on about. The rice in your Speaker Stands should go a fair way to help this (he won't have seen this).
This is all well and good, but tell him you will do what you can.......but to send on the cables for you to try as well.
Before spending money on any power conditioning products I really feel that you need to make sure the wall outlet is dedicated. Many homes have old wiring or mixed circuits (lights & power on the same circuit).
At the very least identify which circuit your system is on & see if it is practical to unplug any/all other devices on that circuit.
I suppose that you could argue if a new circuit is not an option then a power conditioner will make sure that what you're feeding into your system is clean? But for the same money (probably less) you could get a licensed sparky to come & do an install for you. While he is at it get him to wire in surge protection at the board, that way your whole house is protected.
I realise that Alex has made it clear structural work is not an option for him, but it just seems like a lot of money to spend with-out addressing the fundamental part of the chain that comes before the system.
Sorry, I know I've bought this up a few times, not meaning to harp on
At the very least identify which circuit your system is on & see if it is practical to unplug any/all other devices on that circuit.
I suppose that you could argue if a new circuit is not an option then a power conditioner will make sure that what you're feeding into your system is clean? But for the same money (probably less) you could get a licensed sparky to come & do an install for you. While he is at it get him to wire in surge protection at the board, that way your whole house is protected.
I realise that Alex has made it clear structural work is not an option for him, but it just seems like a lot of money to spend with-out addressing the fundamental part of the chain that comes before the system.
Sorry, I know I've bought this up a few times, not meaning to harp on
Neuphonix said:Sorry, I know I've bought this up a few times, not meaning to harp on
When you are right, you're right!
Paying attention to the quality of mains, pays big dividends.....including fuses and wall sockets! :shifty:
Did you read this: http://www.atlascables.com/assets/files/pdfs-technical/Atlas_Cables_Vol2__vs4.pdf
I hadn't seen that, thanks
You know by now that I'm not shy of spending a quid or two on my equipment. It just seems to me that it's better to focus on the structural components before spending money on system tweaks.
I seem to remember you saying that you lived iin an old victorian house? Most likely the electrical cables are cloth sheathed with a bare earth run in metal conduit, a recipie for interference. Add to that what was accepted electrical design back in the day & the difficullty of adding new circuits, you may well have lighting & power on common circuits.
I still have some reservations about conditioners & SQ, but not having made any real assessment myself I'm absolutley keeping an open mind. As for the protection aspect I'm all for it. But if you wanted to really go for it with this, a UPS with soft shutdown as well as filtering would probably be better.
You know by now that I'm not shy of spending a quid or two on my equipment. It just seems to me that it's better to focus on the structural components before spending money on system tweaks.
I seem to remember you saying that you lived iin an old victorian house? Most likely the electrical cables are cloth sheathed with a bare earth run in metal conduit, a recipie for interference. Add to that what was accepted electrical design back in the day & the difficullty of adding new circuits, you may well have lighting & power on common circuits.
I still have some reservations about conditioners & SQ, but not having made any real assessment myself I'm absolutley keeping an open mind. As for the protection aspect I'm all for it. But if you wanted to really go for it with this, a UPS with soft shutdown as well as filtering would probably be better.
CnoEvil said:
Well, I was wrong. He is going to send power chord, speaker cables, plus i.c's and jumpers.
Unfortunately, I literally have no room to manoeuvre in my room, so will have to work with what I've got, but will try some decoupling, once I can burrow my way through the snow!
Mac
Neuphonix said:I hadn't seen that, thanks
You know by now that I'm not shy of spending a quid or two on my equipment. It just seems to me that it's better to focus on the structural components before spending money on system tweaks.
I seem to remember you saying that you lived iin an old victorian house? Most likely the electrical cables are cloth sheathed with a bare earth run in metal conduit, a recipie for interference. Add to that what was accepted electrical design back in the day & the difficullty of adding new circuits, you may well have lighting & power on common circuits.
I still have some reservations about conditioners & SQ, but not having made any real assessment myself I'm absolutley keeping an open mind. As for the protection aspect I'm all for it. But if you wanted to really go for it with this, a UPS with soft shutdown as well as filtering would probably be better.
My house was re-wired in about 1988.
I would rather have a Balanced Mains Transformer than Mains Re-Gen; and lastly Conditioning. The Atlas Balanced Transformer is the best I've heard.
I am hearing good things about Furutech GTX-D wall sockets.....though they are expensive, even compared to their FT-15A.
Neuphonix said:Before spending money on any power conditioning products I really feel that you need to make sure the wall outlet is dedicated. Many homes have old wiring or mixed circuits (lights & power on the same circuit).
At the very least identify which circuit your system is on & see if it is practical to unplug any/all other devices on that circuit.
I suppose that you could argue if a new circuit is not an option then a power conditioner will make sure that what you're feeding into your system is clean? But for the same money (probably less) you could get a licensed sparky to come & do an install for you. While he is at it get him to wire in surge protection at the board, that way your whole house is protected.
I realise that Alex has made it clear structural work is not an option for him, but it just seems like a lot of money to spend with-out addressing the fundamental part of the chain that comes before the system.
Sorry, I know I've bought this up a few times, not meaning to harp on
I agree about everything... but as you rightly said there is no way I can make any structural change to the apartment. Especially because I have already not enough plugs in the living room. That's why I was thinking about a simple power strip instead of a power conditioner or transformer.
I am curios to try this ps audio. I will also check with atlas if I can have a power strip...
acalex said:
That should have read "made of Acrylic" (sorry, BrainF@rt)......actually, I think they're the same thing. :wall:
acalex said:
PS Audio are a respectable company.
What I look for in a Mains Block is:
- No circuitry to interfere with performance
- Star wiring / Star earthing....ie. not daisy-chained
- Complete isolation between sockets
- Effective surge protection that doesn't interfere with performance
- Effectively shielded against EMI and RFI
- Have a well designed RF filter that does more good than harm.
- High purity heavy gauge copper
- Decent quality plugs
The product you liked does seem to cover most of those bases.....it does have different zones for different current devices, rather than having all plugs with the same current, so not sure if this is important or not.
Clearer Audio have well made products (Copper-Line / Silver-Line) here as well (up to 6 way): http://www.cleareraudio.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=18
Russ Andrews do 8 way PowerBlock (need to budget for a P/C): http://www.russandrews.com/
Ultimately, it will come down to your ears and VFM.
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