I have come across cd players that have been modified by companies such as Fidelity Audio, CPT Acoustics and JS Audio Repairs. Does anyone have any experience of this?
Modifying CD players
- Thread starter BigH
- Start date
matt49
Well-known member
BigH said:
Not CDPs, but I'm currently having a Sonos ZP90 modified by Fidelity Audio. The mods are similar in kind, I think: replacing clocks, capacitors etc. I don't know whether this will be worth the (not inconsiderable) expense, but I'm so attached to Sonos that it seemed worthwhile as an experiment. Once I get it back, I'll test it alongside an unmodded version and let you know what I think.
Matt
Fidelity Audio are currently upgrading my Arcam Alpha 9 CDP and 9 & 9P amps. Will post in a couple of weeks.
12Designs said:
Great let me know how it sounds. Is that a Level 1 upgrade on the cdp?
The price is not cheap but then DACs can be £500.
I've often wondered about this too. They do a 'stage 3' modification for my CD63 KI which easily surpasses the cost of a damn good new CDP. Can't help but wonder what it would sound like, just out of curiosity's sake. But there's not exactly a way to demo it!
My CD63 apparently has some decent mods, although I can't currently find the spec list from the previous owner. I'll email him as I'm curious now
Overdose
Well-known member
BigH said:
Consider the original cost of the equipment and then add the cost of the mod.
A lot of the mods that I have seen advertised, charge exorbitant prices for essentially basic and cheap components.
Would your money not be spent more wisely on better equipment to begin with and still maintain a better residual value and warranty?
Overdose said:
Maybe thats why I'm asking. However a lot of the new price is going in dealers and tax so I'm not sure say a £1,000 cdp is better than a say a £100 cdp modified one.
Overdose
Well-known member
BigH said:
In some cases it may be that the cheaper CD player is no better or worse, with or without mod. Most digital sources have so little in the way of differences in sound it's not worth considering as a factor. Time, energy and money would be better spent elsewhere in the system.
Opinions will always vary on a forum, so the only real way to know is to try, but then you've already spent your money.
matt49
Well-known member
12Designs said:BigH said:
Having a level 3 upgrade on the CDP
My Sonos ZP90 just arrived back from Fidelity. Level 2 mod including new outboard power supply. Sounds fine out of the box but it may need some running in time. Proper testing next week ...
matt49
Well-known member
12Designs said:
I've been running the modded ZP90 (Fidelity Audio level II) alongside an unmodded one, both going into the optical digital inputs in my MDAC, playing the same music from the same bitperfect source. Using the selector on the MDAC remote I can switch instananeously between the two ZP90s.
The most obvious difference is that the modded ZP90 has a smoother and more 'analogue' presentation. In comparison the unmodded ZP90 sounds grainy and edgy, especially in the high and upper middle frequencies. The modded version also has more space around the music and better separation. Base is a fraction tighter.
But the mod is expensive, and if I was starting with a blank canvas and wasn't already committed to the functionality of Sonos, I'm not sure I'd go down this route. Still, I'm satisfied with what the mod has done for my study system. Job done.
Sounds like it was worthwhile doing. Expensive yes, but in the long run the pleasure of better SQ with less chance of listening fatigue over longer peroids can only be a plus. Congrats!
:cheers:
:cheers:
BenLaw
Well-known member
matt49 said:
£750? For a new PSU and new clock? What effect is the power supply supposed to have on the digital out? Or do you just put this down to reduced jitter? I'd expect the MDAC to be able to cope with jitter.
matt49 said:
The ZP90 has poor jitter performance. If the mods have improved the jitter, then possibly that would explain the improvement you perceive.
If this is the case, it is disappointing to hear that the MDAC is so sensitive to input jitter. I recall reading that the MDAC employed an async / sample rate conversion approach, but maybe that is only for USB.
If the MDAC is very sensitive to jitter, try using coax rather than optical. Some optical interfaces have poor bandwidth and can introduce jitter themselves.
matt49
Well-known member
12Designs said:
Exactly.
Of course, a large part of the high cost of these mods is labour, i.e. relatively high UK wages, which I don't mind paying for personally.
When I mod my CD 63 I bought the following:
1X 16.xx MHZ clock (Korean made) £100
1X 8.xxMhz clock (Fidelity Audio) £250
3 toroidal transformers £80
smoothing caps and other critical caps £100
8 X very low noise regulators (£30 each) £240
2X Burson opamps £120
Other componebts and sound deadening sheets etc £150
Marantz CD63 MKII SI £120 (from eBay)
Approximate labour time : 3 - 4 full days
1X 16.xx MHZ clock (Korean made) £100
1X 8.xxMhz clock (Fidelity Audio) £250
3 toroidal transformers £80
smoothing caps and other critical caps £100
8 X very low noise regulators (£30 each) £240
2X Burson opamps £120
Other componebts and sound deadening sheets etc £150
Marantz CD63 MKII SI £120 (from eBay)
Approximate labour time : 3 - 4 full days
eggontoast
Well-known member
The Sonos may have higher jitter levels than some devices but it is my understanding that they are still way below the audible range.
I find it very hard to believe that with both ZP90's sending bitperfect files to an outboard DAC that there is any audible difference.......although if I had just wasted, oops sorry, wisely spent over £350 for someone to butcher my precious audio equipment in his shed I'd hear a difference too :roll:
What is also frustrating is that manufacturers spend vast amounts of money and development time in their products so they meet safety & EMC standards and test their products to the tenth degree. Yet some cowboy, in his shed, thinks he can improve on their design just by slapping in a couple of boutique capacitors, a vastly over sized transformer etc, yeee haa. Still there is no shortage of people willing to chuck their hard earned cash at him, perhaps not so stupid after all.
I find it very hard to believe that with both ZP90's sending bitperfect files to an outboard DAC that there is any audible difference.......although if I had just wasted, oops sorry, wisely spent over £350 for someone to butcher my precious audio equipment in his shed I'd hear a difference too :roll:
What is also frustrating is that manufacturers spend vast amounts of money and development time in their products so they meet safety & EMC standards and test their products to the tenth degree. Yet some cowboy, in his shed, thinks he can improve on their design just by slapping in a couple of boutique capacitors, a vastly over sized transformer etc, yeee haa. Still there is no shortage of people willing to chuck their hard earned cash at him, perhaps not so stupid after all.
matt49
Well-known member
eggontoast said:
Yes, nice rhetoric, but it obscures a couple of important facts.
1. no doubt there are some cowboys in sheds, but there are also respected manufacturers doing these mods. For instance wyred4sound in the US and Fidelity Audio in the UK. Both manufacture their own well designed and well regarded equipment, as well as modding Sonos kit.
2. the argument about R&D expenditure is a non sequitur. Just because something's had a lot of money thrown at it, doesn't mean it can't be improved. This is demonstrated by the fact that some excellent designers offer after-market modifications of their own kit. I'm sure you're aware that John Westlake, who designed your MDAC, is offering after-market upgrades to the MDAC. After-market modifications are an established part of the hi-fi business and have been for some time.
Producing Hi Fi from a commercial point of view involves building the best quality/sounding product you can but at the same time keeping costs down to make the product available to the widest possible number of customers in a particular demographic. This means a certain amount of compromise. After market modifications address these compromises.
One more example is OPP 83 universal player. OPPO officially allows NuForce to upgrade OPPO 83 to OPPO 83 NuForce Edition by changing some of the components with better quality.
For Marantz CD63, there are three grades of the same model: CD63, CD63 SE (or CD63 MKII) and CD63 MK II KI.
The circuitry of the 3 CD63s are exactly the same, the differences are on the grade of components used.
Actually the DIY modding is to further improve the performance of the CDP by using even better components. I cannot see anything wrong with it.
For Marantz CD63, there are three grades of the same model: CD63, CD63 SE (or CD63 MKII) and CD63 MK II KI.
The circuitry of the 3 CD63s are exactly the same, the differences are on the grade of components used.
Actually the DIY modding is to further improve the performance of the CDP by using even better components. I cannot see anything wrong with it.
eggontoast
Well-known member
matt49 said:
What well regarded equipment.....a couple of headphone amplifiers o/
matt49 said:
Companies don't throw money at products, that's just what they cost to develop. Everything has to justify it's cost if it doesn't make any difference then the cheapest components are used, transformers are not over specified because it's unnecessary cost which adds nothing to the product. You use the word improved....there are no quantifiable results to justify this statement yet. John Westlake does indeed offer so called 'upgrades' to the M-DAC, he knows there is a market for these upgrades from the gullible, I'm sure it's very lucrative for him too.
You have failed to highlight my missing facts.
Inter_Voice said:
The Oppo 85 is an upgraded 83, same as Oppo 93 and 95 and 103 and 105. Same as the CA651 and 751.
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