marantz pm8005 upgrade to abrahamsen 2up

[his dudeness]

with regards some old rock ac dc and so on i find the better your system gets the worse some of it sounds,always thought fly on the wall,was a awful sounding album,even back in black,hence i play this stuff with the sub on,that sorts it out.*biggrin*

 

[iQ Speakers]

Yes you could, but I would use what you have, the 8005 on treble duty, the Abrahamsen on Bass duty thats where you will get the best cost effective result being as you own the 8005 already. (if you can afford to keep both)

 

[Vladimir]

By adding the PM8005 for biamping duty, you increased the total transient power in reserve by meager 13% and placed the 7.5 times weaker amp for bass duty, which is ineffective. I'm pretty sure you have issues with level matching as it was suggested few posts back. Also very likely it can be expectation bias since you are for some reason very impressed by bi-amping. *unknw*

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_664715932]

By adding the PM8005 for biamping duty, you increased the total transient power in reserve by meager 13% and placed the 7.5 times weaker amp for bass duty, which is ineffective. I'm pretty sure you have issues with level matching as it was suggested few posts back. Also very likely it can be expectation bias since you are for some reason very impressed by bi-amping. *unknw*

+1

 

[Blacksabbath25]

with regards some old rock ac dc and so on i find the better your system gets the worse some of it sounds,always thought fly on the wall,was a awful sounding album,even back in black,hence i play this stuff with the sub on,that sorts it out.*biggrin*

yes this was my thinking too I have all the AC/DC albums and yes if you play the latest album rock or bust it's lovely with the bass I also found it with lead Zeppelin too lacking on bass but funny how the marantz was OK in that department but the abrahamsen handles bass better then the marantz

 

[Blacksabbath25]

By adding the PM8005 for biamping duty, you increased the total transient power in reserve by meager 13% and placed the 7.5 times weaker amp for bass duty, which is ineffective. I'm pretty sure you have issues with level matching as it was suggested few posts back. Also very likely it can be expectation bias since you are for some reason very impressed by bi-amping. *unknw*

yes I understand I was just doing a quick experiment and did it that way on purpose to see if the marantz gave me a bit of bass weight to theses older albums which it has I will swap them around tomorrow but like I say it was just an experiment but think now it's not the amps fault its just bad recordings

 

[Vladimir]

By adding the PM8005 for biamping duty, you increased the total transient power in reserve by meager 13% and placed the 7.5 times weaker amp for bass duty, which is ineffective. I'm pretty sure you have issues with level matching as it was suggested few posts back. Also very likely it can be expectation bias since you are for some reason very impressed by bi-amping. *unknw*

yes I understand I was just doing a quick experiment and did it that way on purpose to see if the marantz gave me a bit of bass weight to theses older albums which it has I will swap them around tomorrow but like I say it was just an experiment but think now it's not the amps fault its just bad recordings

Oh, experiment away dude. I'm all for it.

We are just interpreting the results.

For level matching, you need a digital multimeter with true RMS. Play 1kHz test tone on each amp and measure their AC voltage output on the speaker terminals. Then adjust the volume on each amp so both have same voltage up to 2 or 3 decimal points. Then reattach the speakers in bi-amp setup, play music, but control the volume on your source (PC or CDP), don't touch th amps volume controls.

 

[Electro]

with regards some old rock ac dc and so on i find the better your system gets the worse some of it sounds,always thought fly on the wall,was a awful sounding album,even back in black,hence i play this stuff with the sub on,that sorts it out.*biggrin*

yes this was my thinking too I have all the AC/DC albums and yes if you play the latest album rock or bust it's lovely with the bass I also found it with lead Zeppelin too lacking on bass but funny how the marantz was OK in that department but the abrahamsen handles bass better then the marantz

I think it is jut a case of the Abrahamsen having much tighter control of the bass, so on modern recording that really do have deep powerful bass that is exactly what you get.

But with older recordings that don't have as much deep powerful bass because the were probably mixed for vinyl the Abrahamsen controls the bass with no overhang and you get the tight punch bass that is on the recording that can sound a little bass light .

The Marantz is probably adding bass distorting due to lack of driver control making the older recordings sound a little warmer, deeper and fuller, but the modern bassy recordings probably sound sloppy, loose and boomy compared to the Abrahamsen .

You are just getting more of the truth of the recording *smile* .

 

[Blacksabbath25]

By adding the PM8005 for biamping duty, you increased the total transient power in reserve by meager 13% and placed the 7.5 times weaker amp for bass duty, which is ineffective. I'm pretty sure you have issues with level matching as it was suggested few posts back. Also very likely it can be expectation bias since you are for some reason very impressed by bi-amping. *unknw*

yes I understand I was just doing a quick experiment and did it that way on purpose to see if the marantz gave me a bit of bass weight to theses older albums which it has I will swap them around tomorrow but like I say it was just an experiment but think now it's not the amps fault its just bad recordings

Oh, experiment away dude. I'm all for it. We are just interpreting the results.

For level matching, you need a digital multimeter with true RMS. Play 1kHz test tone on each amp and measure their AC voltage output on the speaker terminals. Then adjust the volume on each amp so both have same voltage up to 2 or 3 decimal points. Then reattach the speakers in bi-amp setup, play music, but control the volume on your source (PC or CDP), don't touch th amps volume controls.

ok got the message I will take the marantz out of the chain tomorrow and just run the abrahamsen I had to try to find out way I was not getting same bass like I had from the marantz with the same album and would of thought the abrahamsen would do it better but it's light in bass on early albums but not with modern stuff . So this comes down to recordings

 

[Blacksabbath25]

with regards some old rock ac dc and so on i find the better your system gets the worse some of it sounds,always thought fly on the wall,was a awful sounding album,even back in black,hence i play this stuff with the sub on,that sorts it out.*biggrin*

yes this was my thinking too I have all the AC/DC albums and yes if you play the latest album rock or bust it's lovely with the bass I also found it with lead Zeppelin too lacking on bass but funny how the marantz was OK in that department but the abrahamsen handles bass better then the marantz

I think it is jut a case of the Abrahamsen having much tighter control of the bass, so on modern recording that really do have deep powerful bass that is exactly what you get.

But with older recordings that don't have as much deep powerful bass because the were probably mixed for vinyl the Abrahamsen controls the bass with no overhang and you get the tight punch bass that is on the recording that can sound a little bass light .

The Marantz is probably adding bass distorting due to lack of driver control making the older recordings sound a little warmer, deeper and fuller, but the modern bassy recordings probably sound sloppy, loose and boomy compared to the Abrahamsen .

You are just getting more of the truth of the recording *smile* .

agree got in one ! the abrahamsen is bloody good amp and you are right in understanding the abrahamsen amp that's what I am not used too is well controlled bass I thought I had it with the marantz because it went nise and deep but with the abrahamsen you do not get any boom in the bass you hear the bass on a drum kit it's clear and it's a funny feeling to hear it like that

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Thank you everyone for the help I understand now ..... I am still learning *biggrin*

 

[radiorog]

Haven't been following this thread properly. And here I thought you'd dropped the Idea of getting the Ab.

Congratulations, sounds like a lustworthy piece of kit. As good as the Marantz is, it's still relatively entry level. Certainly lacks the pride of ownership of your new amp. Nothing like an amp with a decent bit of weight to it.

the marantz is still a very good amp for the money your paying but the abrahamsen is in a different league to the marantz in sound quality if you want that extra bit of detail as long as your running good set of speakers which I think helps with that detail your on to a winner . The roskin k3 in bulld is not built as good as the abrahamsen amp no way nothing on the abrahamsen is plastic it's built like a tiger tank it's truly value for money . I thought the roskin sounded clinical no warmth to the sound maybe when I had my demo they did not put the right kind of speakers to suit the k3 but then this was richer sounds we are talking about here

Nothing on the roksan is plastic either. It is also very well made, and it looks ten times better. But looks are not what we are interested in here.

I first heard the k3 at richer as well, with some tannoy speakers, and it sounded pretty bad to me, but I could tell with my speakers it would sound better, and it does.

I'm still very interested to hear an Abe tho.

 

[Andrewjvt]

with regards some old rock ac dc and so on i find the better your system gets the worse some of it sounds,always thought fly on the wall,was a awful sounding album,even back in black,hence i play this stuff with the sub on,that sorts it out.*biggrin*

yes this was my thinking too I have all the AC/DC albums and yes if you play the latest album rock or bust it's lovely with the bass I also found it with lead Zeppelin too lacking on bass  but funny how the marantz was OK in that department but the abrahamsen handles bass better then the marantz?

 I think it is jut a case of the Abrahamsen having much tighter control of the bass, so on modern recording that really do have deep powerful bass  that is exactly what you get.

But with older recordings that don't have as much deep powerful bass because the were probably mixed for vinyl the Abrahamsen controls the bass with no overhang and you get the tight punch bass that is on the recording that can sound a little bass light .

The Marantz is probably adding bass distorting due to lack of driver control making the older recordings sound a little warmer, deeper and fuller, but the modern bassy recordings  probably sound sloppy, loose and boomy compared to the Abrahamsen .

You are just getting more of the truth of the recording *smile* .

Thats what i was thinking reading this. Dont mistake well controlled tight grippy bass with an amp thats actually losing control. Amps that dont have this amount of control will appear more basey at first but its actually dostortion and a lack if control that your hearing. If you like that sort of sound just go back to the 6005 and wack it up

But if it has good bass on certain tracks and not others then thats the recording full stop.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Haven't been following this thread properly. And here I thought you'd dropped the Idea of getting the Ab.

Congratulations, sounds like a lustworthy piece of kit. As good as the Marantz is, it's still relatively entry level. Certainly lacks the pride of ownership of your new amp. Nothing like an amp with a decent bit of weight to it.

the marantz is still a very good amp for the money your paying but the abrahamsen is in a different league to the marantz in sound quality if you want that extra bit of detail as long as your running good set of speakers which I think helps with that detail your on to a winner . The roskin k3 in bulld is not built as good as the abrahamsen amp no way nothing on the abrahamsen is plastic it's built like a tiger tank it's truly value for money . I thought the roskin sounded clinical no warmth to the sound maybe when I had my demo they did not put the right kind of speakers to suit the k3 but then this was richer sounds we are talking about here

Nothing on the roksan is plastic either. It is also very well made, and it looks ten times better. But looks are not what we are interested in here.

I first heard the k3 at richer as well, with some tannoy speakers, and it sounded pretty bad to me, but I could tell with my speakers it would sound better, and it does.

I'm still very interested to hear an Abe tho.

hi sorry the k3 just did not do it for me I did feel that it sounded basic for the money that your paying for one but understand with the right speakers it would sound very nice I also tried the arcam a19 and the next arcam up from the 19 I felt the arcam a29 sounded better then the a19 but also found that Dali speakers sound flat with the roskin amps and, arcam amps and to be honest I was after an arcam but when I heard it I was disappointed how it sounded as I have had arcam amps in the past and felt the amps from the 1990s sounded a lot better then the current arcam amps do but again at the time I was only looking at book shelf speakers which I ended up buying floor standing speakers because with rock and metal you need that bass at the low end but also at the same time detail coming from the treble end too so it's been a bit of a rocky road to get the sound how I wanted it and the abrahamsen kind of does this but on the same note the marantz did too but in a different way .

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Ok made a mistake on the phono's connecting up the abrahamsen the positive is at the bottom not the top like it was with the marantz amp so now I have a lot better bass even with older albums drum beat is how it should be I must of got to excited when I got it and went on auto and put the red positive phono lead at the top instead of the bottom like it should be so now sorted .

 

[stevee1966]

 Ok made a mistake on the phono's connecting up the abrahamsen the positive is at the bottom not the top like it was with the marantz amp so now I have a lot better bass even with older albums drum beat is how it should be I must of got to excited when I got it and went on auto and put the red positive phono lead at the top instead of the bottom like it should be so now sorted .

Didn't you originally mix up your Marantz +ive and -ive connections to the speakers ?

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Ok made a mistake on the phono's connecting up the abrahamsen the positive is at the bottom not the top like it was with the marantz amp so now I have a lot better bass even with older albums drum beat is how it should be I must of got to excited when I got it and went on auto and put the red positive phono lead at the top instead of the bottom like it should be so now sorted .

Didn't you originally mix up your Marantz +ive and -ive connections to the speakers ?

yes that was dali doing not mine this time round was me but rocking now

 

[emperor's new clothes]

But swapping the phonos makes no difference to the SQ and bass, only the soundstage mirror image.

 

[paulkebab]

the title track of FOT Wall sounds like the bass drum was recorded in a cardboard box, it really is 'thin' but this is how Brian Johnson's vocals sound too. A bit of bass boost improved things but to me it was obviously in the mix. Onto track 2 and a normal sounding bass drum, back off with the bass boost and sounded very good, not one of my regular albums as I usually go for Back In Black. The bass on this album is tremendous, I think this was a turning point in their career for a few reasons but IIRC they got Mutt Lange to engineer it. The thing you will find Sabbath with your new gear is poorly engineered or mastered albums will be exposed, and it's not a good feeling. I thought the Zeppelin albums had enough bass too, apart from Physical Graffiti which sounds pretty poor in places - maybe studio relevant possibly. Glad you got your wires sorted

 

[Blacksabbath25]

But swapping the phonos makes no difference to the SQ and bass, only the soundstage mirror image.

the red positive i put wrong in the input bank it should of been in the bottom input on the abrahamsen amp not at the top but on the marantz it's at the top so at the time I must of done this thinking it was the same as the marantz and not looking . It has made a lot of diffrance to the sound now a lot more bolder and much stronger bass , better soundstage . main thing is i am happy and black sabbath sounds great now

 

[Electro]

But swapping the phonos makes no difference to the SQ and bass, only the soundstage mirror image.

the red positive i put wrong in the input bank it should of been in the bottom input on the abrahamsen amp not at the top but on the marantz it's at the top so at the time I must of done this thinking it was the same as the marantz and not looking . It has made a lot of diffrance to the sound now a lot more bolder and much stronger bass , better soundstage . main thing is i am happy and black sabbath sounds great now

That's fantastic ! Enjoy the music *biggrin*

 

[iQ Speakers]

And the nice thing is he rang me to tell me. We all make honest mistakes. I recieved this email form a customer this evening.
Hi Colin, the amp has not yet reached its 96 hours break in but here are a few words. In all fairness, I didn't expect too much of it. No Hifi mag has ever written about it, nobody seems to know about it either, and at a lower price than is normal for such items, there surely must be a catch somewhere ? But no such thing. For the price, this amp is a steal. It's extremely well built, has a serious power supply and weighs a ton. It's number one virtue is imaging. All instruments are clearly placed in a wide soundspace, almost 3D. It's dynamic and sounds very natural, crisp with well defined and tight bass. My system consists of ribbon speakers (Transmission audio) and a valve preamp (Transcendent grounded grid - modified). The Abrahamsen is a perfect match. Voices are so natural and when that deep bass of the TA's kicks in, never enjoyed music so much. I am very pleased and happy I bought it. Some other things I noticed are that it needs quite some time to fully come on song from cold, so better to leave it on and allthough rated at 70W/8 ohm, it seems to have less power than my previous Arcam power amp. Have to turn the volume to 12 0'clock to get at normal listening level. But soundwise the Arcam comes second after the V40 . Now the question is, what would buying a second one and using the amps in bridged mode, do? More power for sure but soundwise ?

 

[Vladimir]

One of the reasons why it sounds so good is the volume attenuation solution without shi**y pots, something you see in high end exotica only. And i can't believe my eyes when I read people complain about the clicks. *scratch_one-s_head*

 

[iceman16]

This thread has gone far.. but what the OP really needs(enjoy) and wants(other forumers suggest) will never end! In less than a month or two B.S claimed he really enjoy the Marantz..I mean.. why not save and save and get the right amp for you! Been there..After Abrahemsen whats next? mono block(s) cause your not happy with the mid or highs? Well carry on mate till your bank acct is empty

 

[Blacksabbath25]

This thread has gone far.. but what the OP really needs(enjoy) and wants(other forumers suggest) will never end! In less than a month or two B.S claimed he really enjoy the Marantz..I mean.. why not save and save and get the right amp for you! Been there..After Abrahemsen whats next? mono block(s) cause your not happy with the mid or highs? Well carry on mate till your bank acct is empty

my mids and my highs are good thanks the abrahamsen is a lot different to the marantz and I am very happy with this amp I had a good reason to change the marantz it was sloppy with the bass , not very detailed mid's & high's not saying the marantz was rubbish but the abrahamsen is a lot clearer then the marantz