marantz pm8005 upgrade to abrahamsen 2up

[Oie]

Hi,

Thanks Electro. Yes I appreciate my speakers are fairly efficient.

I somehow was thinking loud because I find myself listening more and more often at low volumes, under 35, nowadays and I was surprised he was turning up the volume so much.

No ulterior motive or anything like that.

Regards,

O

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Hi,

Thanks Electro. Yes I appreciate my speakers are fairly efficient.

I somehow was thinking loud because I find myself listening more and more often at low volumes, under 35, nowadays and I was surprised he was turning up the volume so much.

No ulterior motive or anything like that.

Regards,

O

so can i ask do you get volume from 0 -35 ?

 

[Vladimir]

Efficiency is king. (to skip the techno track, move time slider to 3 mins.)

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Efficiency is king. (to skip the techno track, move time slider to 3 mins.)

so vladimir have i got an issue with my amp as i do not get any sound from 0 -30 there is no sound i start to get sound from 30 -60 . the other chap is saying 35 is loud for him thats quite for me and i am sure there nothing wrong with my hearing here is there something wrong with my amp ?

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Efficiency is king. (to skip the techno track, move time slider to 3 mins.)

so vladimir have i got an issue with my amp as i do not get any sound from 0 -30 there is no sound i start to get sound from 30 -60 . the other chap is saying 35 is loud for him thats quite for me and i am sure there nothing wrong with my hearing here is there something wrong with my amp ?

No issues with the amp. His speakers are of higher efficiency by 3dB, which is exactly twice the power you need to catch up. For every 3dB more, the amplifier needs to double the power.

The Focals are larger speakers (120L / 30kg) than the Dalis (64L / 18.9kg).

so that's normal then not to get any sound until I reach 30 as it seems a bit of a wast not to get any sound nothing from 0 - 30 . And thanks for helping I was starting to worry that I had an issue with the amp

 

[Vladimir]

Efficiency is king. (to skip the techno track, move time slider to 3 mins.)

so vladimir have i got an issue with my amp as i do not get any sound from 0 -30 there is no sound i start to get sound from 30 -60 . the other chap is saying 35 is loud for him thats quite for me and i am sure there nothing wrong with my hearing here is there something wrong with my amp ?

No issues with the amp. His speakers are of higher efficiency by 3dB, which is exactly twice the power you need to catch up. For every 3dB more, the amplifier needs to double the power.

The Focals are larger speakers (120L / 30kg) than the Dalis (64L / 18.9kg).

 

[gasolin]

Hi,

Thanks Electro. Yes I appreciate my speakers are fairly efficient.

I somehow was thinking loud because I find myself listening more and more often at low volumes, under 35, nowadays and I was surprised he was turning up the volume so much.

No ulterior motive or anything like that.

Regards,

O

There should be no difference since the focals are 8 ohm and 92db and the dali's are 4 ohm and 89db that equals it out since the amp is 70 watt in 8 ohm and 140 watt in 4 ohm, if specs are 100% true theres no difference in max spl (mabye in the bass under 80-100hz, since some are loud and others are louder)

 

[Vladimir]

Efficiency is king. (to skip the techno track, move time slider to 3 mins.)

so vladimir have i got an issue with my amp as i do not get any sound from 0 -30 there is no sound i start to get sound from 30 -60 . the other chap is saying 35 is loud for him thats quite for me and i am sure there nothing wrong with my hearing here is there something wrong with my amp ?

No issues with the amp. His speakers are of higher efficiency by 3dB, which is exactly twice the power you need to catch up. For every 3dB more, the amplifier needs to double the power.

The Focals are larger speakers (120L / 30kg) than the Dalis (64L / 18.9kg).

so that's normal then not to get any sound until I reach 30 as it seems a bit of a wast not to get any sound nothing from 0 - 30 . And thanks for helping I was starting to worry that I had an issue with the amp

Some years ago I sold a pair of small Tannoy standmounts to a guy. Brought them to his appartment, unhooked his store brand tower speakers and hooked up the Tannoys to a fairly powerfull Harman Kardon amp (120W). He had to turn up the volume by a huge margin more to get similar loudness as he was getting with the more efficient towers. It was interesting to observe his confusion, reaction and eventually doubt in buying the Tannoys. One word that I use to describe the psychological effect of turning up the amp more than half way to get medium loudness is "emasculating". People think 120Wpc is huge. It's not huge or tiny, it depends on the speakers.

More compact speakers sacrifice efficiency for smaller cabinet size and drivers. Not everyone wants behemots in their room. Ever heard of Anthony Hoffman's Iron Law of speaker design?

 

[The Mad One]

Blacksabbath25

Ok ive tried my amp and i can only just hear the music when set at volume 30

[font="ProximaNova-Semibold, arial, verdana, sans-serif"]My usual volume is between 44-47 and 48- 51 when i want to have a blast.[/font]

[font="ProximaNova-Semibold, arial, verdana, sans-serif"]Hope this helps. [/font]*good*

 

[Vladimir]

Hi,

Thanks Electro. Yes I appreciate my speakers are fairly efficient.

I somehow was thinking loud because I find myself listening more and more often at low volumes, under 35, nowadays and I was surprised he was turning up the volume so much.

No ulterior motive or anything like that.

Regards,

O

There should be no difference since the focals are 8 ohm and 92db and the dali's are 4 ohm and 89db that equals it out since the amp is 70 watt in 8 ohm and 140 watt in 4 ohm, if specs are 100% true theres no difference in max spl (mabye in the bass under 80-100hz, since some are loud and others are louder)

If they were fixed impedance, but they are not. The Chorus 836W dips down as low as 3Ω @ 110Hz.

 

[gasolin]

Efficiency is king. (to skip the techno track, move time slider to 3 mins.)

so vladimir have i got an issue with my amp as i do not get any sound from 0 -30 there is no sound i start to get sound from 30 -60 . the other chap is saying 35 is loud for him thats quite for me and i am sure there nothing wrong with my hearing here is there something wrong with my amp ?

No issues with the amp. His speakers are of higher efficiency by 3dB, which is exactly twice the power you need to catch up. For every 3dB more, the amplifier needs to double the power.

The Focals are larger speakers (120L / 30kg) than the Dalis (64L / 18.9kg).

Doesn't make a difference as i already have wrote focal 8ohm 93 db dali 4 ohm 89 db same amp Right? 2x70 watt 8 ohm 2x140 watt in 4 ohm do tthe math no difference if the amps are the same, mabye theres a difference in input level

 

[Vladimir]

My usual volume is between 44-47 and 48- 51 when i want to have a blast.

Your ProAcs are similar efficiency (88.5dB) as his Dalis (89dB).

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Blacksabbath25

Ok ive tried my amp and i can only just hear the music when set at volume 30

My usual volume is between 44-47 and 48- 51 when i want to have a blast.

Hope this helps. *good*

yes it does mate that sounds right for me too

 

[JamesMellor]

Oies equipment list says jriver as a source , what's the output volume from his PC to Dac set at ? Just a thought .

James

 

[gasolin]

Hi,

Thanks Electro. Yes I appreciate my speakers are fairly efficient.

I somehow was thinking loud because I find myself listening more and more often at low volumes, under 35, nowadays and I was surprised he was turning up the volume so much.

No ulterior motive or anything like that.

Regards,

O

There should be no difference since the focals are 8 ohm and 92db and the dali's are 4 ohm and 89db that equals it out since the amp is 70 watt in 8 ohm and 140 watt in 4 ohm, if specs are 100% true theres no difference in max spl (mabye in the bass under 80-100hz, since some are loud and others are louder)

If they were fixed impedance, but they are not. The Chorus 836W dips down as low as 3Ω @ 110Hz.

But it's more 8 ohm then 4 ohm?

 

[Vladimir]

Hi,

Thanks Electro. Yes I appreciate my speakers are fairly efficient.

I somehow was thinking loud because I find myself listening more and more often at low volumes, under 35, nowadays and I was surprised he was turning up the volume so much.

No ulterior motive or anything like that.

Regards,

O

There should be no difference since the focals are 8 ohm and 92db and the dali's are 4 ohm and 89db that equals it out since the amp is 70 watt in 8 ohm and 140 watt in 4 ohm, if specs are 100% true theres no difference in max spl (mabye in the bass under 80-100hz, since some are loud and others are louder)

If they were fixed impedance, but they are not. The Chorus 836W dips down as low as 3Ω @ 110Hz.

But it's more 8 ohm then 4 ohm?

Probably is but the 3 ohm drop happens at 110Hz where the power demands are not negligable. Different frequency has different power demands.

 

[Oie]

Hi,

I don't hear anything under 20. Too low until 27. Ok for background music at 30. 35 it's fine most of the time. At 40 I start to feel guilty for my neighbors and at 45 for my hearing

On jriver I use internal volume set at 100% so 64bit and "all volume" dictated by the amp.

Regards,

O

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Hi,

I don't hear anything under 20. Too low until 27. Ok for background music at 30. 35 it's fine most of the time. At 40 I start to feel guilty for my neighbors and at 45 for my hearing

On jriver I use internal volume set at 100% so 64bit and "all volume" dictated by the amp.

Regards,

O

hi its sorted out now ... why mine is not the same as yours its down to my speakers as they are 4 ohms and yours are 8ohms so mine need a little bit more power to get going and someone said the same about there amp too running on 4ohms that they needed the same volume as me

 

[gasolin]

Hi,

I don't hear anything under 20. Too low until 27. Ok for background music at 30. 35 it's fine most of the time. At 40 I start to feel guilty for my neighbors and at 45 for my hearing

On jriver I use internal volume set at 100% so 64bit and "all volume" dictated by the amp.

Regards,

O

hi its sorted out now ... why mine is not the same as yours its down to my speakers as they are 4 ohms and yours are 8ohms so mine need a little bit more power to get going and someone said the same about there amp too running on 4ohms that they needed the same volume as me

No at 30 or 40 both speakers should be equally loud, at max volume theres 140 watt for the dali but only 70 for the focal but since the focals are 3 db more sensitive max spl is the same

Dali need a 3 db more power to be equally loud as the foacls but in the end the amp play 3 db loud since the dalis are 4 ohm speakers and again both play the same spl at the same setting of the volume

 

[nopiano]

Hi,

I don't hear anything under 20. Too low until 27. Ok for background music at 30. 35 it's fine most of the time. At 40 I start to feel guilty for my neighbors and at 45 for my hearing

On jriver I use internal volume set at 100% so 64bit and "all volume" dictated by the amp.

Regards,

O

hi its sorted out now ... why mine is not the same as yours its down to my speakers as they are 4 ohms and yours are 8ohms so mine need a little bit more power to get going and someone said the same about there amp too running on 4ohms that they needed the same volume as me

No at 30 or 40 both speakers should be equally loud, at max volume theres 140 watt for the dali but only 70 for the focal but since the focals are 3 db more sensitive max spl is the same

Dali need a 3 db more power to be equally loud as the foacls but in the end the amp play 3 db loud since the dalis are 4 ohm speakers and again both play the same spl at the same setting of the volume

gasolin, I think you may be double-counting. The 3dB sensitivity is the difference, i.e. noticeably louder. The Dali's are simply less sensitive, as sensitivity is measured ref a 1 watt/ 8 ohm level.

That would account for the diffeence. (I posted more detail a few posts above, no 350)

 

[Blacksabbath25]

DALI OPTICON 6 SPECS Product series OPTICON Frequency Range (+/-3 dB) [Hz] 49 - 32,000 Sensitivity (2,83 V/1 m) [dB] 89.0 Nominal Impedance [ohms] 4 Maximum SPL [dB] 110 Recommended Amplifier Power [W] 25 - 200 Crossover Frequency [Hz] 800 / 2,200 / 14,000 Crossover Principle 2½ + ½-way Hybrid tweeter module, Super high freq. driver, Quantity 1 x 17 x 45 mm Hybrid tweeter module, Super high freq. driver, Diaphragm type Ribbon Hybrid tweeter module, High frequency driver, Quantity 1 x 28 mm Hybrid tweeter module, High frequency driver Diaphragm type Soft Textile Dome Midrange driver, Quantity 2 x 6 1/2" Midrange driver, Diaphragm type Wood Fibre Cone Enclosure type Bass Reflex Bass Reflex Tuning Frequency [Hz] 42.0 Connection Input Bi-Wiring Magnetic Shielding No Recommended Placement Floor Recommended Distance From Wall [cm] 20 - 100 Dimensions With Base (HxWxD) [mm] 1000 x 195 x 330 Weight [kg] 18.9

 

[Oie]

Hi,

This has been mentioned before on this thread and most of us have read about it before but it's always interesting to remember:

http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/loudspeaker-sensitivity

Regards,

O

 

[gasolin]

Hi,

I don't hear anything under 20. Too low until 27. Ok for background music at 30. 35 it's fine most of the time. At 40 I start to feel guilty for my neighbors and at 45 for my hearing

On jriver I use internal volume set at 100% so 64bit and "all volume" dictated by the amp.

Regards,

O

hi its sorted out now ... why mine is not the same as yours its down to my speakers as they are 4 ohms and yours are 8ohms so mine need a little bit more power to get going and someone said the same about there amp too running on 4ohms that they needed the same volume as me

No at 30 or 40 both speakers should be equally loud, at max volume theres 140 watt for the dali but only 70 for the focal but since the focals are 3 db more sensitive max spl is the same

Dali need a 3 db more power to be equally loud as the foacls but in the end the amp play 3 db loud since the dalis are 4 ohm speakers and again both play the same spl at the same setting of the volume

gasolin, I think you may be double-counting. The 3dB sensitivity is the difference, i.e. noticeably louder. The Dali's are simply less sensitive, as sensitivity is measured ref a 1 watt/ 8 ohm level.

That would account for the diffeence. (I posted more detail a few posts above, no 350)

Thers also a diffeerence in watt, dali makes the amp deliver 140 watt in 4 ohm focal's 70watt in 8ohm,you do need a bit more power to play loud with the dalis but with the same setting the amp delivers 3db more watt to the dalis and equals out the diffrence in sensitivity

In the how much power do i need thread you most have around 6 db more watt to notice a difference so 3 db sensitive speaker (92db) might not make a huge difference

 

[Blacksabbath25]

If the amplifier is set to 2.83V, the 4 ohm speaker will draw 2 watts of power from the amplifier while an 8 ohm speaker draws 1 watt. (Power = Voltage2/resistance. So, 2.832 = 8. 8/8ohms = 1 watt.) This potentially gives the 4 ohm speaker a +3dB SPL advantage over the 8 ohm speaker for a given input level .

 

[gasolin]

If the amplifier is set to 2.83V, the 4 ohm speaker will draw 2 watts of power from the amplifier while an 8 ohm speaker draws 1 watt. (Power = Voltage2/resistance. So, 2.832 = 8. 8/8ohms = 1 watt.) This potentially gives the 4 ohm speaker a +3dB SPL advantage over the 8 ohm speaker for a given input level .

Only if both speakers have the same sensitivity and ohm, since the 4 ohm speakers are 89db and the 8 ohm speakers are 92db, the amp is the same theres, no difference in max spl

10 watt will make the focal louder then 10 watt for the dalis by 3 db