Mains filters - improvement or snake oil?

[6and8]

Is it OK to ask about mains filters in this forum?

If so, in an attempt to tidy up all the wiring I've tucked behind my system I started to read up about cable tidies. That lead to articles about mains filter blocks. This forum's sponsor has reviewed a fair few, from those costing 40 quid to some from Russ Andrews weighing in at about 400 quid. Some are apparently rubbish, some will rob the music of its attack, some will boost bass, with some music lacks cohesion, with others the music sounds smaller scale - it all started to sound like snake oil. Do any of you use a mains filter, are they worth it, do they make a difference to the sound, are some to be recommended, some to be avoided?

 

[Gray]

Batten down the hatches. (And it was all so peaceful on this Sunday afternoon).

 

[DistortedVision]

How much is interconnects, speaker cables and mains cables snake oil?

I think alot of things are snake oil in hi-fi.

I also think diminishing returns mean spending ludicrous amounts of money on hi-fi stupid and pointless.

The whole point of hi-fi for me is to enjoy what you already own to enjoy the music you love. For many people its about feeling constantly dissatisifed and the need to be constantly upgrading.

 

[Vladimir]

Did you measure your mains how steady the AC is, how much DC noise in it? Simple multimeter measurement. If everything is great no need to waste money where your system has no benefits.

 

[6and8]

Thanks for the feedback.

Gray, good advice, it seems that discussing snake oil means opening another can of worms.

DistortedVision, I agree with you about diminishing returns, and enjoying what you have. But every so often I get an irrisitible urge to fiddle, I can't help it.

Vladimir, it didn't occur to me to measure anything, I'm naive about electricity. If I flick a switch or press a button and the thing works it's a good result for me. The reviews implied that mains noise is something we all live with and get used to and that these products can help, so I was curious to hear about other people's experiences.

 

[nopiano]

I think it is a good idea to take care with your cable layout and positioning of kit. Obvious trouble spots like putting turntables too close to big transformers - typically in your amp - need avoiding. And cables should be neatly fed to the mains or between pieces of equipment, keeping AC away from signals cables.

There is supposed to be some benefit in grounding everything to one place, not that I have A/B tested it myself. I used to put amplifiers direct into the nearest mains socket, and run everything else from a multiway block. For some years I've used a - wait for it - Russ Andrews 8-way extension. It is tough and well made, with sturdy connections. And I couldn't find anything better. In the context of my system spend, the £170 odd asking price, with two metres of Kimber mains, seemed fair enough to me.

Some folks say the Tacima models aren't ideal because they 'suck the life' from music. I use one for telly and video gear we have in a cottage, which is near the phone and router. But again, I've not auditioned it specifically.

Whatever one thinks of these things, many suppliers will take returns, and RA makes a big thing of it. Very little to lose in trying for yourself.

PS. I do use a mains sniffer, which identifies noise sources. One of the best filters is built into an old Sony tv. Plug that in and everything goes quiet!

 

[abacus]

Unless poorly designed (Or cheap) the power supply in the equipment will filter out any noise, however, power supply failure is one of the most common faults that occurs in equipment, so anything to make its job easier is always good.

A simple surge suppressor extension block (Can be picked up cheaply from Maplin, Argos, B & Q etc.) is all that is needed, plus, many offer protected equipment warrantee, which means if a failure is caused by something getting through the suppressor you will be compensated. (Don’t know if anyone has ever had to claim, but it’s there anyway)

The only way to truly isolate your equipment from the mains is to use a mains re-generator (Expensive) but in most cases it is not needed, except perhaps for peace of mind.

If you can try something first (So you will not lose money) then go ahead, just remember that the placebo effect is very powerful, so you may hear a difference even when there isn’t any there. (Even professionals that are trained can have problems)

Hope this helps

Bill

 

[thescarletpronster]

it seems that discussing snake oil means opening another can of worms.

Are canned worms packed in snake oil these days? ;-)

 

[Al ears]

Bearing in mind the price of some of these things it's probably cheaper, if your mains supply is good, to get an electrician to run a seperate spur to your mains socket used for hifi kit.

 

[Oldphrt]

Bearing in mind the price of some of these things it's probably cheaper, if your mains supply is good, to get an electrician to run a seperate spur to your mains socket used for hifi kit.

Which will do precisely nothing, because it's all connected together anyway.

 

[Al ears]

Bearing in mind the price of some of these things it's probably cheaper, if your mains supply is good, to get an electrician to run a seperate spur to your mains socket used for hifi kit.

Which will do precisely nothing, because it's all connected together anyway.

 

[Gray]

Bearing in mind the price of some of these things it's probably cheaper, if your mains supply is good, to get an electrician to run a seperate spur to your mains socket used for hifi kit.

Which will do precisely nothing, because it's all connected together anyway.

The theory some put forward for separate ring mains / spurs etc. is the physical distance between the clean and potential noise sources within the same house. They say that there's more opportunity for spikes / RF noise to dissipate in the longer wiring before causing harm.

Extreme example: Years ago, when plugged into the same double wall socket as a TV, the back EMF spike from a starting Hoover, took out a diode in the TVs power supply. With a few feet of wiring for the spike to dissipate - no problem. OK that was an extreme case but there's no doubting the potential proximity effect on the same ring.

For the same reason a venue I used to work at took it a stage further. One phase of the incoming 3 phases was used for sound equipment only. Nitpickers would say that the sound equipment was still on the same grid (but that wasn't the point, it was for local isolation).

 

[Vladimir]

Bearing in mind the price of some of these things it's probably cheaper, if your mains supply is good, to get an electrician to run a seperate spur to your mains socket used for hifi kit.

Which will do precisely nothing, because it's all connected together anyway.

Tell that to ground loops.

 

[Al ears]

Bearing in mind the price of some of these things it's probably cheaper, if your mains supply is good, to get an electrician to run a seperate spur to your mains socket used for hifi kit.

Which will do precisely nothing, because it's all connected together anyway.

Tell that to ground loops.

My point precisely, and to some extent Grays.

The original post is in the right place as anyone with a complex turntable set-up will tell you. Most other hifi set-ups are not so susceptible it seems.