Lexicon BD-30 is a Oppo BDP-83

[admin_exported]

Have been reading the HiFi news and the high end $3500 THX certified Lexicon BD-30 it turns out is a Oppo BDP-83 chassis sitting inside a Lexicon cover. That is a completely unmodified $500 Oppo BDP-30. They added their own splash screen in the software and a darkblue tinted filter over the display it also has the Lexicon front but pressing the Lexicon buttons on the case presses the Oppo buttons on the chasis.

So do a Lexicon cover and THX logo justify the extra $3000. Lexicon and THX are apparantly in a panic now they have been exposed and now claiming it was never THX certified since tests reveal it scores identically to the Oppo and like the Oppo it fails some THX specifications.

 

[Anonymous]

I just read an article on this, after seeing your post. I wouldn't pay $3000 more for a chasis and THX logo. If it's true, and the evidence put forward by the publication that reviewed the Lexicon seems convincing, then that's outrageous.

 

[Anonymous]

That's a serious con job!

 

[Anonymous]

This is what Lexicon originally said about their player.

"The Lexicon BD-30 is at the cutting edge of what a disc media player can be," Phil McPhee, Marketing Manager, Harman High Performance AV Group.

Lexicon website Product Description

Providing unparalleled video quality, the BD-30 incorporates Anchor Bay's award-winning Video Reference Series (VRS) technology, and delivers a picture that is cleaner, smoother, true-to-life and free of artifacts. With exceptional picture and sound quality along with fast loading and response times, the BD-30 delivers an incredible sound stage and an immersive surround experience.

Dealers info sheet.

The Lexicon BD30......Built in America...THX certified...Lexicon Quality and Support...Best Video...Fastest transport.......

"The BD-30 is the highest performance blu-ray player available today and when you see the unit, you'll realize that the product not only is the highest performance player, but is built to the highest standard."

Lexicon BD30 Highlights:

Best video quality available using Anchor Bay's technology.

Best player response times - Drawer responds < 2 seconds. The BD30 can respond from an OFF condition to playing the main menu in about 10 seconds.

The unit also remembers the last 5 discs you played and will pick up where you stopped in about 2 seconds.

Universal media formats - The BDP-30 plays the SACD format.

Combine with the 7.1 MC-12 firmware update - for a superior sounding Dolby TrueHD & DTS Master Audio solution.

Operates as a system with the Lexicon MC12HD Digital Controller

Unit includes Joe Kane's setup disc and supported with world class customer support.

Assembled by Lexicon in the USA.





The official Lexicon BD30 post:

Short Answer...Built in America...THX certified...Lexicon Quality and Support...Best Video...Fastest transport...Joe Kane likes it...first shipment expected in late October or early November.

What we bring to the table:

£ Best video quality available using Anchor Bay's technology

£ Best player response times - Drawer responds <2seconds. For most blu-ray discs (regardless of profile) we can go from OFF to playing the main menu in about 10 seconds.

£ Universal media formats - the only other model that has SACD is the $4,500 Denon model.

£ Combine with the 7.1 MC-12 firmware update - for a superior sounding Dolby TrueHD & DTS Master Audio solution.

FAQ:

£ "What are the differences to the OPPO?"

o When we specified the BD-30 we focused on premium video & audio performance, fast response times, and a mechanical construction that upholds the lexicon tradition of excellence - Some parts are similar to the OPPO due to the fact we purchase subassemblies from the same contract manufacturer. We then ship this subassembly to Indiana and complete the manufacturing in the States. We load in application specific firmware

£ "why does the Lexicon cost more?"

o The BD-30 is the highest performance blu-ray player available today and when you see the unit, you'll realize that the product not only is the highest performance player, but is build to the highest standards in the USA. It is then shipped with Joe Kane's setup disc and supported with world class customer support.

"what exactly does the BD30 have over the Oppo?"

o I can't really comment since I am obviously biased to the Lexicon but there is going to be a BD30 review on (have removed name of site/magazine so as to not run the risk of breaching what hifi house rules) that not only reviews the Lex but also does do a comparison between the Oppo and the Lex, as well as other brands that you will want to read.

Edited by Todd Packer

Todd Packer
Technical Product and Project Manager
Harman High Performance A/V
Lexicon - Mark Levinson - JBL Synthesis - Revel "

By unparalleled they mean without equal except for the Oppo.

By some parts are similiar to the Oppo they mean all the internal electonics and even the chasis they sit on are identical.

By manufactured and build to the highest standards in the USA they mean assembled, putting the oppo chasis in a lexicon case and flashing the software.

 

[John Duncan]

cf Skoda/Audi...

 

[Anonymous]

JohnDuncan:cf Skoda/Audi...

That's not a very good comparison. This Lexicon deal is a ripoff, VW on the other hand is not being secretive at all about building VW's, Skoda's, Seat's and Audi's and sharing parts between them. Even so, you will find rather large quality differences between these brands. Look at a Skoda or Seat interior and then at an Audi's, or the width of gaps between the exterior panels.

Besides, an Audi is hardly 5 times the price of the equivalent Skoda is it?

Edit: make that seven times...

 

[Frank Harvey]

This isn't uncommon. Many CD players, regardless of their price, are based on Sony or Philips, and use the same laser mechs. Manufacturers will usually implement their own DACs, software, chassis, casing, O/P amps etc. For a big company, building a player from the ground up won't this won't cost too much based on volume sales, but for smaller companies it's a massive investment, so they tend to base it on an existing player. According to many on this site, they've chosen a good player to base theirs on. Lexicon then have to write their own software, beef up the chassis, manufacture a case and facia (and lets face it, not many manufacturers can match Lexicon when it comes to build quality), send for THX approval, and pay a license to THX, as well as other licenses. Building in America, like the UK, is far more expensive than it is in whatever country the Oppo is built in. Lexicon's do provide an excellent back up service too.

If the player doesn't come up to certain THX specs, that's an issue with THX, not Lexicon.

It's the same with Bluray players. Yamaha base theirs on Panasonics - so how can it cost three times more if it's just a Panasonic under the lid? Easy - check the list above.

With Bluray players being a HD source, the differences between them are far smaller than they were with DVD players, so we're geting to a point now where source components are pretty much as good as they're going to get, and producing a BD player or let's say, £10k, isn't going to make it 10 times better than a £1k player.

 

[John Duncan]

KevinOK:
JohnDuncan:cf Skoda/Audi...

That's not a very good comparison. This Lexicon deal is a ripoff, VW on the other hand is not being secretive at all about building VW's, Skoda's, Seat's and Audi's and sharing parts between them. Even so, you will find rather large quality differences between these brands. Look at a Skoda or Seat interior and then at an Audi's, or the width of gaps between the exterior panels.

Besides, an Audi is hardly 5 times the price of the equivalent Skoda is it?

Edit: make that seven times...

Some of them are. And I prefer the interior of the latest Oktavia to the latest A4.

 

[Anonymous]

JohnDuncan:KevinOK:
JohnDuncan:cf Skoda/Audi...

That's not a very good comparison. This Lexicon deal is a ripoff, VW on the other hand is not being secretive at all about building VW's, Skoda's, Seat's and Audi's and sharing parts between them. Even so, you will find rather large quality differences between these brands. Look at a Skoda or Seat interior and then at an Audi's, or the width of gaps between the exterior panels.

Besides, an Audi is hardly 5 times the price of the equivalent Skoda is it?

Edit: make that seven times...

Some of them are. And I prefer the interior of the latest Oktavia to the latest A4.

Oh come on, name me an Audi that is seven times the price of the equivalent Skoda. (no point in comparing an S8 to a Fabia).

 

[Clare Newsome]

The same company makes the Bugatti Veyron

But going back on topic - i'll reserve any comment until we've seen/heard the product in question. After all, most people think all hi-fi/AV is essentially the same as it's built on the same basic components; as we've seen with many products - from players to TVs - that ain't necessarily so!

 

[aliEnRIK]

Clare Newsome:

The same company makes the Bugatti Veyron

But going back on topic - i'll reserve any comment until we've seen/heard the product in question. After all, most people think all hi-fi/AV is essentially the same as it's built on the same basic components; as we've seen with many products - from players to TVs - that ain't necessarily so!

Get it reviewed Clare, they need shooting if its correct!

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi: According to many on this site, they've chosen a good player to base theirs on. Lexicon then have to write their own software, beef up the chassis, manufacture a case and facia (and lets face it, not many manufacturers can match Lexicon when it comes to build quality), send for THX approval, and pay a license to THX, as well as other licenses. Building in America, like the UK, is far more expensive than it is in whatever country the Oppo is built in. Lexicon's do provide an excellent back up service too.

It is not based on the Oppo it is the Oppo.

They have added their own splash screen and it will update from Lexicon`s website not Oppo`s, does that count as writing their own software. They have not beefed up the chasis they have droped it into their case, the chasis, component layout, components, are all identical. "Manufacture a case and facia", yes a aluminuminum case and facia complete with a bit of dark blue tinted plastic is going to cost thousands. "Lexicon`s do provide an excellent back up service" I believe they are offering a 3 year warranty as opposed to Oppos 1 year warranty, for software upgrades I would be amazed if they are not just going to use Oppos slightly altered for Lexicon splash screen, for warranty replacement and repair I would expect excellent service considering the profit margin.

"Building in America, like the UK, is far more expensive than it is in whatever country the Oppo is built in" They are both manufactured by Oppos parent company BBK in the Far East. Final assembly in the USA can be cheaper than importing finished products due to higher import duties. To display a made in America logo in America, a product has to consisting of 51% or more of domestically produced or manufactured parts, labor and or value-added content or any combination thereof. They certainly appear to have added more than 51% value to the product.

At least one hi-end manufacture that upgrades an Oppo, buys finished Oppo players in bulk and disassembles them, this is apparantly cheaper than getting the manufacture to run a small <1000 unit run, and avoids having to pay royalities to DVD and Blu-ray consortium members as they have already been paid by the original manufacture on completed goods. This hi-end manufacture unlike Lexicon is at least open as to exactly what they do and what modifications they do to the player and how they believe those modifications improve performance and add value.

THX has dropped all reference to the Lexicon on their website. The it fails to meet THX spec was based on its audio analogue outputs but apparantly THX do not test these on Blu-ray players. So it passes THX spec. Problem with THX is the rigorous tests to insure products meet their high specifications. THX will not disclose what tests are performed or what their high specifications are. So THX certification is primarily a marketing logo, that has no defined meaning or spec the consumer can look up, just like the Joe Kane of Digital Video Essentials likes it statement.

I agree it is not uncommon, but it is not usually so blatant they usually alter a bit of the internals, to attempt to justify their claims of vast improved performance and cost. But I have read of several other examples over the years of hi-end manufactures just replacing the case and branding and price tag. So it has happened before and no doubt will happen again. Lexicon primarily sell to custom installers who provide their customers with expert advice and complete home cinema solutions, so alot of the price tag is going to be dealer markup.

 

[Anonymous]

aliEnRIK:Clare Newsome:

The same company makes the Bugatti Veyron

But going back on topic - i'll reserve any comment until we've seen/heard the product in question. After all, most people think all hi-fi/AV is essentially the same as it's built on the same basic components; as we've seen with many products - from players to TVs - that ain't necessarily so!

Get it reviewed Clare, they need shooting if its correct!

It has already been reviewed by one American magazine/website. They like What Hifi rely on subjective reviewing, not technical measurements. They thought it was much better than the Oppo BDP-83SE. Which may have been news to Oppo since the BDP-83SE, Special Edition is the upgraded version of the Oppo BDP-83 contained in the Lexicon cover. They have had to delete their reviews comment section and block anyone from leaving any comments.

Another website that actually takes measurements compared it directly to the Oppo BDP-83 and found unsuprisiingly that it performed identically.

 

[Frank Harvey]

It comes across like you know what you're talking about, but in reality I think you're just passing on what you've read.

In the case of the Lexicon, I can't comment as I haven't even seen a picture of it, let alone read any reviews or details. To comment on this specifically, like Clare, I'll wait until I've seen it for myself, or seen something written by someone in the trade I know and can trust. That aside, it's not a case of manufacturers just 'dropping in' a cheapo player into their box. Read my post again.

Knowledge may be power, but knowledge to the uniniciated is dangerous.

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:
It comes across like you know what you're talking about, but in reality I think you're just passing on what you've read.

In the case of the Lexicon, I can't comment as I haven't even seen a picture of it, let alone read any reviews or details. To comment on this specifically, like Clare, I'll wait until I've seen it for myself, or seen something written by someone in the trade I know and can trust. That aside, it's not a case of manufacturers just 'dropping in' a cheapo player into their box. Read my post again.

Knowledge may be power, but knowledge to the uniniciated is dangerous.

I think everyone that posted is happy that the same components are used in equipment at various price points, The issue here is that they have altered nothing but the case and charging a healthy premium for it.

You say you havent seen even a picture of it or read anything about it but say its not a case of the manafacturer just dropping in a cheapo player. How do you know this? I agree that this isnt the case alot of the time but it sounds like it could be true here.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I wasn't saying this wasn't the case here, what I'm trying to get across is that when a manufacturer produces a player based on another one, they have to do something different with it, otherwise it just won't sell against competition at the same price point. To do this, there's a lot more to it than just dropping a player into their box. These costs are higher to smaller manufacturers, and most high end manufacturers are not big companies.

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:

It comes across like you know what you're talking about, but in reality I think you're just passing on what you've read.

In the case of the Lexicon, I can't comment as I haven't even seen a picture of it, let alone read any reviews or details. To comment on this specifically, like Clare, I'll wait until I've seen it for myself, or seen something written by someone in the trade I know and can trust. That aside, it's not a case of manufacturers just 'dropping in' a cheapo player into their box. Read my post again.

Knowledge may be power, but knowledge to the uniniciated is dangerous.

Yes I am relying on what I have read elsewhere on the web. It has been reported on several sites. The original site that broke the story has pictures, test results etc... No one appears to be denying the facts, Lexicon and THX have both been contacted by the site and asked for comments, THX gave a written reply, and Lexicon has talked to the site and maybe going to give them a written statement.

I have not gone out and bought the Lexicon and Oppo and done a side by side physical comparison or bought test equiment and measured results from both or done double blind testing. But I guess that is what hi-end manufactures rely on. It was Lexicons misfortune that the reviewers liked the oppo and had one lying around, so they recognised the familiarity, and on closer inspection discovered the suprising amount of similiarity. How many purchasers of hi-end equipment take the lid off and are familiar enough with the other products on the market to recognize it is identical to a cheaper product. How many use test equipment to measure the claims of performance made by the hi-end manufacture and how many rely on their subjective opinion coloured by the price tag and quality looks.

The improvements to a stock cheaper design made by a hi-end manufactures may indeed improve the performance or may just be done to justify the claims of improved performance and the higher price tag. At the very least changing the layout or a few components prevents people from going hey this is identical to the must cheaper... They could at the very least of put a heavy piece of metal, sorry anti-vibration plate inside the box as done by some other manufacture in the past.

FrankHarveyHiFi:

Knowledge may be power, but knowledge to the uniniciated is dangerous.

What are the initiation rites like to become a high-end dealer, do they involve vows to secrecy and loyalty before the secret special knowledge of hi-end AV is revealed? Obviously the unitiated would be foolish to try and gather knowledge of their own and should rely on the expert advise of hi-end dealers, motivated by the desire to give their customers the best. Knowledge in the hands of customers is obviously dangerous as ignorance is bliss.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't understand how a "high end manufacturer" can release something, in this case a blu ray player, which has been lifted from another brand and pretty much unmodified (if the claims are correct), and still call themselves a manufacturer - the "high end" part I suppose is justified by the $3,500 price tag. I expect that their other products must be very good, though I've never heard of them. (Then again, I don't have anything that is custom installed, and wouldn't look at blu ray players in that price range, so it is perhaps not surprising that I don't know of them).

This probably reveals my ignorance as to the way manufacturers do business, but it seems ridiculous to me. They had to carve out holes in the bottom of the casing to allow for the location of the air vents in the chasis and the colour didn't even match. You look at the underneath, and there are two white patches where the chasis colour can be seen, in stark contrast to the Lexicon body.

I'm not sure all the things David listed as possible reasons for the price can be accepted in a scenario where the machine being "manufactured" (used very loosely) has simply been dropped into a different casing (if this indeed the case), largely unchanged from another manufacturer (not used loosely).

 

[PJPro]

Yep. I've read the article. Quite funny (unless you've bought one).

 

[Messiah]

It would have been interesting to see what reviews it received before 'the cat was let out of the bag'!

Could have been interesting to see if it was highly rated as a lot of Lexicon gear is and then found out to just be an Oppo......

 

[Anonymous]

this doesnt surprise me too much , theres always people willing to pay for what they perceive to be the best quality , even if it isnt , manufacturers know this , id say there are plenty of hyper expensive clones out there that very few know about...

a friend of mine payed £5k for a tag mclaren dvd player a few years back , unless it was gold plated or something how could it possibly be £4.5 better than a £500 denon , pioneer player ??

some lightweight porsches cost £20k more than their mechanically identical heavier stablemates , shouldnt they be £20k less ??

a fool and his money....

 

[Anonymous]

Just read on another site that in America, AV brand Lexicon have been selling their high end blu-ray player BD30 for $3500. Ok fair enough until it was discovered that its actually an Oppo BDP83 in a Lexicon case.

Never heard of Lexicon products being sold over here but just in case, beware. Unless you really want that Oppo after all!

 

[Anonymous]

There is an existing thread on this very topic.
http://community.whathifi.com/forums/t/370111.aspx

 

[hammill]

I am not surprised that the trade wants to rubbish this story. If it is true (as appears likely) then a lot of people will look like crooks and a number of others will look like idiots.

I wonder how many £100+ HDMI cables are really £10 cables under the skin....

Still the Lexicon makes my Oppo look like a bargain - not that I thought otherwise.

 

[Frank Harvey]

knightout:Yes I am relying on what I have read elsewhere on the web. It has been reported on several sites. The original site that broke the story has pictures, test results etc... No one appears to be denying the facts, Lexicon and THX have both been contacted by the site and asked for comments, THX gave a written reply, and Lexicon has talked to the site and maybe going to give them a written statement.

What I'm trying to get at it that you don't know the full process for a manufacturer to produce a Bluray player, whether it's built by them from the ground up, or more commonly, based on an existing player. There's far more to it than most people think.

What are the initiation rites like to become a high-end dealer, do they involve vows to secrecy and loyalty before the secret special knowledge of hi-end AV is revealed? Obviously the unitiated would be foolish to try and gather knowledge of their own and should rely on the expert advise of hi-end dealers, motivated by the desire to give their customers the best. Knowledge in the hands of customers is obviously dangerous as ignorance is bliss.

Far from it, we're here to be unbiased by recommending products that suit the customer's needs. There are no secrets. If this was easy, and everyone knew it all, there'd be no forums and no need for retailers.