Lexicon BD-30 is a Oppo BDP-83

[bigboss]

I cannot see a single sentence where David has defended Lexicon. It's really unfair to accuse him of conflict of interest...........by those standards, he will be accused for any positive comments he makes, because he stocks a lot of brands!!

In any case, he will have a better knowledge of the company than most of the forum members, simply by his experience of dealing with Lexicon & its products.

He is merely stating facts. If you don't want Lexicon, don't buy it. But actually slagging off its R&D Department without knowing the facts is childish.

 

[hammill]

bigboss:

I cannot see a single sentence where David has defended Lexicon. It's really unfair to accuse him of conflict of interest...........by those standards, he will be accused for any positive comments he makes, because he stocks a lot of brands!!

In any case, he will have a better knowledge of the company than most of the forum members, simply by his experience of dealing with Lexicon & its products.

He is merely stating facts. If you don't want Lexicon, don't buy it. But actually slagging off its R&D Department without knowing the facts is childish.
I assume you did not read this "According to many on this site, they've chosen a good player to base theirs on. Lexicon then have to write their own software, beef up the chassis, manufacture a case and facia (and lets face it, not many manufacturers can match Lexicon when it comes to build quality), send for THX approval, and pay a license to THX, as well as other licenses. Building in America, like the UK, is far more expensive than it is in whatever country the Oppo is built in. Lexicon's do provide an excellent back up service too.". Looks like more than a single sentence to me.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Hi John

If you read my posts again, you will notice that I'm not defending Lexicon, I was merely pointing out what manufacturers who base their players on an existing model have to pay out for, which is more than most people realise, and that it's not just a case of plopping a basic player into their own box (even if this has been the case here).

We don't stock the Lexicon Bluray player, and neither would we due to the reasons below. And if they release one in the future and we thought about keeping it in store, we'd probably wait for an independent review in case this happens again. In the past, we've kept the RV8, MC12 with LX7. Lexicon aren't exactly marketing themselves much at the moment, so it's not a brand that's in any large demand at the moment.

The most expensive Bluray players we've had in store have been the Pioneer LX91 and the Denon 3800. This is because we feel that from around the £1k mark, the law of diminishing returns sets in, and the more you pay, the harder it is to justify a high end Bluray player. We think many people would rather buy a top quality £1k/2k Bluray player and spend the other few thousand on building up a library with which to actually use the player with, rather than having 10 discs to start with!

Regards

David

 

[Frank Harvey]

bigboss: I cannot see a single sentence where David has defended Lexicon. It's really unfair to accuse him of conflict of interest...........by those standards, he will be accused for any positive comments he makes, because he stocks a lot of brands!!

In any case, he will have a better knowledge of the company than most of the forum members, simply by his experience of dealing with Lexicon & its products.

He is merely stating facts. If you don't want Lexicon, don't buy it. But actually slagging off its R&D Department without knowing the facts is childish.

Thank you bigboss.

 

[Frank Harvey]

hammill:I assume you did not read this "According to many on this site, they've chosen a good player to base theirs on. Lexicon then have to write their own software, beef up the chassis, manufacture a case and facia (and lets face it, not many manufacturers can match Lexicon when it comes to build quality), send for THX approval, and pay a license to THX, as well as other licenses. Building in America, like the UK, is far more expensive than it is in whatever country the Oppo is built in. Lexicon's do provide an excellent back up service too.". Looks like more than a single sentence to me.

That would be the normal routine that should have been followed.

 

[bigboss]

hammill:

I assume you did not read this "According to many on this site, they've chosen a good player to base theirs on. Lexicon then have to write their own software, beef up the chassis, manufacture a case and facia (and lets face it, not many manufacturers can match Lexicon when it comes to build quality), send for THX approval, and pay a license to THX, as well as other licenses. Building in America, like the UK, is far more expensive than it is in whatever country the Oppo is built in. Lexicon's do provide an excellent back up service too.". Looks like more than a single sentence to me.

David has already answered it........all he has stated is facts. He hasn't defended the pricing of Lexicon. Isn't Oppo a good player? Isn't it more expensive to build in UK & America (even if it's a case & fascia), as compared to the Oppo which is made in China? Isn't Lexicon renowned for its build quality? Did it not send the player to THX for approval & pay a fee for the THX stamp (even though THX certification doesn't necessarily guarantee a good player)? And, like other high end manufacturers (B&O, Loewe etc.), isn't Lexicon's customer service top notch??

Come on guys, get over it. David is not new to this forum! He's more than 2000 posts old & has been very helpful with his advice!! Just because he doesn't necessarily agree with your points doesn't make him a traitor! It's always good to hear others' points of view.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree you do not want to tar the entire high-end industry with the same brush. But as has been mentioned this does happen rather more than you would like to think here are six other examples. Sorry if these links breach house rules, they do not appear to have a forum or be selling anything. These are products on a similiar theme. High-end prestige products on the outside but oh no inside its a.

The last, bottom link is the most similiar to Lexiconns situation.

http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/...00/WT3200.html

http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/...us%20DAD1.html

http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/...ridian207.html

http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/...HZS_CD66F.html

http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/...1/VRDS-T1.html

http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/...sal/theta.html

 

[Anonymous]

knightout:I agree you do not want to tar the entire high-end industry with the same brush. But as has been mentioned this does happen rather more than you would like to think here are six other examples.

oh lord , that was fun , that guy really is sarcastic , lol , but he seems to know his stuff ..

http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/REFERENCES/THETA Universal/theta.html

i think ill take a screwdriver to my panny plasma , if i find a beko inside , grrr.

please read the last link above folks

 

[hammill]

knightout:

I agree you do not want to tar the entire high-end industry with the same brush. But as has been mentioned this does happen rather more than you would like to think here are six other examples.

Good work that man

very funny. I await the defence of this lot with interest

 

[Anonymous]

oh dont expect too many fireworks , these threads usually get locked .....

 

[Andrew Everard]

maxflinn:these threads usually get locked .....

Only if they descend into futile mudslinging and abuse.

 

[matengawhat]

duck - incoming!

 

[Anonymous]

Since my first links seem to be ok not breaching house rules. I will try another this is to a YouTube abreviated video of the AES Audio Engineering Society, Audio Myths Workshop in October 2009 New York City and helps explain why so many people swear by high-end hifi products, particularly the esoteric ones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ&feature=player_embedded

 

[Andrew Everard]

Hey, knock yourself out - if it keeps you happy.

Just careful where you wave that flaming torch and pitchfork on the way up to the castle...

 

[Tonya]

Hey knightout, thanks for the heads up on those links (previous page).
Typical dry Polish humour but he seems to know what he's doing and the photos from that Leica camera were brilliant.

It's instantly become my second favourite HiFi review site . . . .

 

[Anonymous]

come on guys , when is this going to kick off ?? ive got popcorn and everything ....

 

[Frank Harvey]

He seem to take great pleasure in revealing the Theta as a Philips (nothing new there, many machines have been based on Philips), and then takes even greater pleasure telling us there's NO upgraded parts or extras in the far more expensive Theta. I bet he was disappointed when he found out the Theta sounded better.....

 

[Anonymous]

I didn't read him as scoring cheap laughs, I read him as being both shocked and amused.

 

[Anonymous]

At least your not a Theta dealer, and you say you have no intention of stocking the Lexicon Blu-ray player if the story is true. If you are not bothered by the large markup for no internal upgrade, why do you not intend to stock it? Would you feel morally obliged to pre-warn any customer about the story just in case they would not be happy about it. Will you state that you think large price markups and no improved performance, but hinting, impling improved performance is immoral.

I do not see how you can standby the idea that customers should rely on the impartial advise of custom installers and that "Knowledge may be power, but knowledge to the uniniciated is dangerous". When companys use what many would consider sharp business practices and are complicit by action or inaction, in their customers being mislead about performance. These companys seem to believe in caveat-emptor, buyer beware. The dealers are their direct customers and unless they go round pre-warning their dealers about their business practices which I seriously doubt, the dealer is likely to be mislead and in turn mislead his customers.

 

[Andrew Everard]

knightout:If you are not bothered by the large markup for no internal upgrade, why do you not intend to stock it?

David has already given his reasons above. He said:

FrankHarveyHiFi:We don't stock the Lexicon Bluray player, and neither would we due to the reasons below.

<SNIP>

The most expensive Bluray players we've had in store have been
the Pioneer LX91 and the Denon 3800. This is because we feel that from
around the £1k mark, the law of diminishing returns sets in, and the
more you pay, the harder it is to justify a high end Bluray player. We
think many people would rather buy a top quality £1k/2k Bluray player
and spend the other few thousand on building up a library with which to
actually use the player with, rather than having 10 discs to start with!

 

[Anonymous]

Hmmm, yet they are carrying a £4,500 Denon DVDA1UD Blu-Ray player and a £5,000 Marantz one, so the explanation you quote above Andrew doesn't fully satisfy the point of knightout's question. Personally, I think that Frank Harvey wouldn't touch the Lexicon with a bargepole because of the issues around it, for reasonable fear of seriously denting their own reputation.

 

[Anonymous]

I would hope by top performing he actually means audio/video performance, that is like most posters he assumes that the extra cost should give an improved performance. Not just improved looks. The price £1-2K or £4+K is irrelevent, unless it is ok at £1-2K for the only difference to be styling and the manufacture to imply improved performance without giving any. All I am looking for is a statement that implying improved performance without actually providing it is a bad thing to do and is not acceptable buissness practice. I believe that manufactures should be more forth coming in exactly what improvements they have made to justify the price, because it seems they can not be trusted. Rellying on the dealer to identify the genuine improved performance and the just improved styling, unless the dealer is testing his stock with measuring equipment or an electrical engineer dismantling his stock is not a realistic option unless his golden ears and eyes are unlike hifi reviewers immune to placebo effect.

 

[Andrew Everard]

kaotician:Hmmm, yet they are carrying a £4,500 Denon DVDA1UD Blu-Ray player and a £5,000 Marantz one, so the explanation you quote above Andrew doesn't fully satisfy the point of knightout's question. Personally, I think that Frank Harvey wouldn't touch the Lexicon with a bargepole because of the issues around it, for reasonable fear of seriously denting their own reputation.

So you're calling David a liar, then? Just to be perfectly clear on this...

 

[Andrew Everard]

knightout: unless his golden ears and eyes are unlike hifi reviewers immune to placebo effect.

Thanks for that. At least we know where you're coming from now...

 

[Frank Harvey]

knightout:If you are not bothered by the large markup for no internal upgrade, why do you not intend to stock it? Would you feel morally obliged to pre-warn any customer about the story just in case they would not be happy about it. Will you state that you think large price markups and no improved performance, but hinting, impling improved performance is immoral.

As Andrew states in his previous post.

And as already stated, we wouldn't be keeping it anyway, so no need to answer.