Hi all of you, may I have a question. I have a big Sony AV receiver and Jamo shelf speakers. The radio part of the receiver sounds ok if i turn the bass on to the full. But if I listen to my laptop mp3s the sound, although clear, lacks the bass! Should I add a subwoofer, would it solve the problem? I listened to some subwoofers at music stores, and found that they add only a very little (although significant). I also found that below 100-150 Hz I do not really hear anything. So what is your advice?
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When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
laptop sound
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Ok, let me rephrase a bit. I like to listen to my mp3s on laptop. But I am not satisfied with the pc music systems. I listened to logitech 2300 which is praised all over as one of the best and i did not like it: too much bass and to few mid. I have a sony AV amplifier and rather big Jamo shelf speakers which provide good sound. So what i do is connect my laptop to this system and what i get is much better than the pc music systems or "micro hifis". Still, they lack some bass but not in the very low range (which i do not even hear below 100 Hz 
but a little above. My speakers are capable of providing the mid-bass i need (when i listen to music sources other than my laptop) but not when using my laptop as a music source. So what i would really need is the reinforcement of the mid bass especialy at low volumes because I do not often listen to music loud, at least that is what i think ( I may be wrong). So I depend on your experience and advice whether i should get a subwoofer? Or another amp which may provide more bass? Or bigger shelf speakers?? It may be that the best thing would be to use another mp3 source which may provide more bass? What do you think?
but a little above. My speakers are capable of providing the mid-bass i need (when i listen to music sources other than my laptop) but not when using my laptop as a music source. So what i would really need is the reinforcement of the mid bass especialy at low volumes because I do not often listen to music loud, at least that is what i think ( I may be wrong). So I depend on your experience and advice whether i should get a subwoofer? Or another amp which may provide more bass? Or bigger shelf speakers?? It may be that the best thing would be to use another mp3 source which may provide more bass? What do you think?[quote user="fr0g"]Ok. You say you get the bass from another source...CD?
Thing is, MP3's at low btrates are usually lacking in that department. 128KBps MP3 sounds very 'thin'.
So make sure you rip your CD's properly - I have commented on this a number of times...(Essentiially try to use EAC or CDex, and LAME - Go look here.... for a very good guide. Use at least VBR 190, and preferably higher.
Try a sample rip at 320 Kbps (CBR) and try that. If it still sounds bad, then try ripping to WAV. If this doesn't fix the problem, then its the soundcard.
If the soundcard has an optical digital out (usually hidden in the headphone socket - look down it and see if it glows red), then you can try a cheap external DAC such as the Beresford. (About £100). If not perhaps try the Trends Audio USB DAC/Soundcard.
[/quote]
I think FrOg is absolutely right, but like to add that downloading Asio4all also improved the sound quality from my Win XP pc quite a bit.
Thing is, MP3's at low btrates are usually lacking in that department. 128KBps MP3 sounds very 'thin'.
So make sure you rip your CD's properly - I have commented on this a number of times...(Essentiially try to use EAC or CDex, and LAME - Go look here.... for a very good guide. Use at least VBR 190, and preferably higher.
Try a sample rip at 320 Kbps (CBR) and try that. If it still sounds bad, then try ripping to WAV. If this doesn't fix the problem, then its the soundcard.
If the soundcard has an optical digital out (usually hidden in the headphone socket - look down it and see if it glows red), then you can try a cheap external DAC such as the Beresford. (About £100). If not perhaps try the Trends Audio USB DAC/Soundcard.
[/quote]
I think FrOg is absolutely right, but like to add that downloading Asio4all also improved the sound quality from my Win XP pc quite a bit.
Even better!
[quote user="fr0g"]
You have to set up your audio software to use ASIO in order to notice any change. How this is done depends on your particular audio software and there usually is some sort of an audio configuration dialog
[/quote]In my system it just was: download, install and play- for other hard/software configurations it might take some more time. I guess that's what they're trying to say.
[quote user="fr0g"]
You have to set up your audio software to use ASIO in order to notice any change. How this is done depends on your particular audio software and there usually is some sort of an audio configuration dialog
[/quote]In my system it just was: download, install and play- for other hard/software configurations it might take some more time. I guess that's what they're trying to say.
Alec
Well-known member
I have a win XP pc, ripped cds with EAC and am mainly using plextools professional (came free with the cd-burner). De difference Asio4all makes is -for me at least- definitely noticeable. The sound is clearer up to a much higher volume and less fatiguing. I'm listening through sennheiser HD-650 headphones with musical fidelity X-can. Not much more to say really; I used to think Apple computers have a clearer headphone output than windows machines, but now the difference is negligible -very happy with this "tweak".I am certainly not suffering from the placebo effect; I'm enjoying every minute of it!;-) Seriously now, there's definitely a difference in the clarity of sound from my pc- like the difference in quality when ripping with EAC or just WMP. I'm quite surprised to what level of performance my pc setup is capable of- I never thought it could match the quality of sound coming from buget or mid-priced hifi- but to my ears it does-especially using a decent dac. It completely transformed my concepts about hifi. My next upgrade will probably be a high quality usb dac -like the benchmark or aqvox mentioned on the web. Read this article: http://www.stereo.de/index.php?id=197-very interesting and much akin to my own experience. It's in German- sure hope this isn't a problem for you- anyway, I think you can at least make sense out of the most essential bits.Wish you all the best,
Solomon
Solomon
russ74
Well-known member
Hello everyone, this is my first post on the Forum.
I spent a couple of day's earlier this week looking at ways of improving the music sound quality from my pc through the hifi and discovered asio4all and after a bit of trial and error got it up and running.
Fr0g is right the asio4all driver and software only works when it is set up through a plugin within the music player software. From my research only Winamp and foobar2000 have asio plugins. Any increase in sound quality through wmp 11, itunes, etc is not through just installing asio4all. Heres an excellent site for setting up asio4all for audio playback:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/asio4all-explanation-221237/
The asio4all box on your pc should be setup the same as the 2nd asioforall desktop box in the guide. This is important as your music will hiss, crackle and pop and you'll think something has broken - I did.
I use winamp with the japanese developed plugin - the one direct from the winamp site didn't work for me (but you should try both). A direct download link is available on the following site, it's roughly halfway down (under the green box with japanese writing!). Save the dll and move it to your winamp plugins folder, should be similar to Crograms/winamp/plugins.
http://www.aqvox.de/Asio-USB-Audio-installation-e.htm
To fully set up in winamp you go to preferences - plugins - output, double click on asio output, select asio4all. Then in the resampling box set the sample rate to 44100hz, once done press close and restart winamp, play a track and the sound should hopefully, fingers crossed be much improved. it is through my hifi. It is correctly set up when the volume control within winamp has no effect when adjusted.
To set up foobar2000 follow the instruction on the head-fi.org page. Ive tried both winamp and foobar2000 and the sound is equal to my ears, I just prefer the gui of winamp.
The primary function of the asio driver (either asio4all or dedicated asio drivers) is to help reduce latency when recording musical instruments, ie. reduce the delay from when you strum your guitar to the sound coming out of your pc speakers. WDM drivers as supplied by microsoft are not good enough for professional recordings hence the development of the asio driver. The bonus is that it improves the playback sound for us hifi buffs.
Dedicated asio drivers are usually supplied with audio interfaces (professional quality soundcards - m-audio, e-mu, behringer, edirol etc) either on the cd or downloaded from the manufacturers website. If you have one of these you shouldnt need asio4all but would need winamp or foobar2000 plus plugin. I am tempted to get one of the budget usb audio interfaces but most of the reviews only mention recording quality and not playback so unsure if they would drastically improve the sound through the hifi. Does anyone on the forum have any experience of using these as soundcards?
Anyhow heres the wikipedia link explaining what asio is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_stream_input_output
The asio4all website has good advice too.
Back to helping zenezene with his poor sound, your best bet is to buy an external usb soundcard and set up asio4all. Laptops are notorious for having poor quality sound so any external card should improve the sound not just the above mentioned audio interfaces. I'd try this method first as all the software is free and if you shop around a budget external soundcard can be has for around £15-20. If this doesn't work then look at your speakers etc.
Also regardless of software, plugins etc keep the volume of your pc at around 50% and use your amp to adjust volume. It's known as the
"unity gain" effect, guess what heres another link!
http://www.linnrecords.com/linn-help-downloads-how-to-play-downloads-on-your-computer.aspx#volume
Apologies if this reply seems a little long winded but I hope it helps sort out some of the confusion but it probably just add's to it!.
I spent a couple of day's earlier this week looking at ways of improving the music sound quality from my pc through the hifi and discovered asio4all and after a bit of trial and error got it up and running.
Fr0g is right the asio4all driver and software only works when it is set up through a plugin within the music player software. From my research only Winamp and foobar2000 have asio plugins. Any increase in sound quality through wmp 11, itunes, etc is not through just installing asio4all. Heres an excellent site for setting up asio4all for audio playback:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/asio4all-explanation-221237/
The asio4all box on your pc should be setup the same as the 2nd asioforall desktop box in the guide. This is important as your music will hiss, crackle and pop and you'll think something has broken - I did.
I use winamp with the japanese developed plugin - the one direct from the winamp site didn't work for me (but you should try both). A direct download link is available on the following site, it's roughly halfway down (under the green box with japanese writing!). Save the dll and move it to your winamp plugins folder, should be similar to C
rograms/winamp/plugins.http://www.aqvox.de/Asio-USB-Audio-installation-e.htm
To fully set up in winamp you go to preferences - plugins - output, double click on asio output, select asio4all. Then in the resampling box set the sample rate to 44100hz, once done press close and restart winamp, play a track and the sound should hopefully, fingers crossed be much improved. it is through my hifi. It is correctly set up when the volume control within winamp has no effect when adjusted.
To set up foobar2000 follow the instruction on the head-fi.org page. Ive tried both winamp and foobar2000 and the sound is equal to my ears, I just prefer the gui of winamp.
The primary function of the asio driver (either asio4all or dedicated asio drivers) is to help reduce latency when recording musical instruments, ie. reduce the delay from when you strum your guitar to the sound coming out of your pc speakers. WDM drivers as supplied by microsoft are not good enough for professional recordings hence the development of the asio driver. The bonus is that it improves the playback sound for us hifi buffs.
Dedicated asio drivers are usually supplied with audio interfaces (professional quality soundcards - m-audio, e-mu, behringer, edirol etc) either on the cd or downloaded from the manufacturers website. If you have one of these you shouldnt need asio4all but would need winamp or foobar2000 plus plugin. I am tempted to get one of the budget usb audio interfaces but most of the reviews only mention recording quality and not playback so unsure if they would drastically improve the sound through the hifi. Does anyone on the forum have any experience of using these as soundcards?
Anyhow heres the wikipedia link explaining what asio is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_stream_input_output
The asio4all website has good advice too.
Back to helping zenezene with his poor sound, your best bet is to buy an external usb soundcard and set up asio4all. Laptops are notorious for having poor quality sound so any external card should improve the sound not just the above mentioned audio interfaces. I'd try this method first as all the software is free and if you shop around a budget external soundcard can be has for around £15-20. If this doesn't work then look at your speakers etc.
Also regardless of software, plugins etc keep the volume of your pc at around 50% and use your amp to adjust volume. It's known as the
"unity gain" effect, guess what heres another link!
http://www.linnrecords.com/linn-help-downloads-how-to-play-downloads-on-your-computer.aspx#volume
Apologies if this reply seems a little long winded but I hope it helps sort out some of the confusion but it probably just add's to it!.
russ74
Well-known member
Apologies to everyone. I mucked up the links in my previous post so they just open the what hifi forum page. Sorry you'll have to cut and paste them all.
Think I need to get the html manual out!
Apologies
Think I need to get the html manual out!
Apologies
Hi russ74, thanks for your post. I will definitely try the asio but first in the meanwhile i bought an external soundcard as many adviced. After some consideration i decided to buy the creative Xmos usb soundcard although it is a bit expensive and has some effects which i do not really need (3D and things like that - i am not into that stuff but looks good and is extremely easy to set up. And i supose that the inside should be the same as other SB soundcards which are praised all over. (Anyone thinking i am wrong - go ahead, i want to learn and not stick to my foolish decisions).
Well the card really improved the sound! Well its not "hifi" but i did not expect to get hifi from 128 kbps mp3s. I only wanted to improve the bass i lacked - and it did it! I think i wont have to buy a subwoofer ( i really like the sound of my speakers). Its been just set up and have to listen to it more.
I would really welcome any (even if its kinda rude) comment about listening to music through a laptop (which i would like to stick to even to the detgriment of sound quality), external sound card and the subwoofer issue.
but looks good and is extremely easy to set up. And i supose that the inside should be the same as other SB soundcards which are praised all over. (Anyone thinking i am wrong - go ahead, i want to learn and not stick to my foolish decisions).Well the card really improved the sound! Well its not "hifi" but i did not expect to get hifi from 128 kbps mp3s. I only wanted to improve the bass i lacked - and it did it! I think i wont have to buy a subwoofer ( i really like the sound of my speakers). Its been just set up and have to listen to it more.
I would really welcome any (even if its kinda rude) comment about listening to music through a laptop (which i would like to stick to even to the detgriment of sound quality), external sound card and the subwoofer issue.
Hi frog, yes its the Xmod. Do you know it? If yes i would be eager to have your opinion. And its not only the crytallizer, but that the laptop soundcard is replaced by the usb external soundcard. It has a 3.5 mm jack out. I dont really know what is a digital out. And why would it be beneficial to add a DAC to it? I am sorry i do not know these things and if you are fed up with my too simple questions just ignore this post.
I downloaded the asio4all 2.8, installed it but it does not appear in my winamp. Whats on is DirectSound output 2.2.8 dll (and two others: Nullsoft and Waveout something, but neither works). So my question is: what improvement do i expect from asio4all (=is it worth trying to fix it)?
russ74
Well-known member
Sorry been away for the weekend.
It's not really worth the hassle of fixing asio4all if it's not working, as it says on their website - if you cant get it to work uninstall and forget about it. I had problems with one of the winamp plugins and the other has caused problems on other peoples computers, if it starts playing up on my pc then it will be uninstalled. Anyhow the improvement in sound quality is not a great leap forward, you wouldn't sit there and be blown away. To my ears it slightly improves the bass and treble but it is subtle and most of it may be down to just changing media player software.
If your happy with the sound you've got now from your new soundcard then stick with that. The creative will do a much better job than asio4all could ever achieve plus it makes dvd's and games sound much better too.
I have other issues with windows xp which may lead to a switch to linux but thats for another thread on another forum!
At the end of the day just simply enjoying the music is the most important thing.
It's not really worth the hassle of fixing asio4all if it's not working, as it says on their website - if you cant get it to work uninstall and forget about it. I had problems with one of the winamp plugins and the other has caused problems on other peoples computers, if it starts playing up on my pc then it will be uninstalled. Anyhow the improvement in sound quality is not a great leap forward, you wouldn't sit there and be blown away. To my ears it slightly improves the bass and treble but it is subtle and most of it may be down to just changing media player software.
If your happy with the sound you've got now from your new soundcard then stick with that. The creative will do a much better job than asio4all could ever achieve plus it makes dvd's and games sound much better too.
I have other issues with windows xp which may lead to a switch to linux but thats for another thread on another forum!
At the end of the day just simply enjoying the music is the most important thing.
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