KEF LS50 disappointment :(

[davedotco]

Easy peasy.......... 8)

Buy a good quality integrated amplifier with a minimum of 100 wpc, more if possible.

Use a good pair of heavy speaker stands, carefully set up and spiked to the floor.

Position the speakers and stands correctly for the room.

Given that I want a definitive answer for myself and for the rest of humanity, I am willing to play ball!

I am going to order two integrated:

1. NAD D3020 - Many have communted that while it is 30W, it is able to push the LS50 rather well.

2. More traditional / powerful amp: NAD 375DAC (150W), Yamaha AS700

Would trying these remove the blame from the electronics (assuming no improvement)?

The only amp that could do the job is the big NAD, but I have never seen one in the UK so that is largely a guess.

The D3020 will get you nowhere in this situation and I don't much like Yamaha amplifiers (personal preference) hence the tepid endorsment of the NAD.

The NAD is not cheap, surely you must have better alternatives available to you?

 

[tk1111]

The only amp that could do the job is the big NAD, but I have never seen one in the UK so that is largely a guess.

The D3020 will get you nowhere in this situation and I don't much like Yamaha amplifiers (personal preference) hence the tepid endorsment of the NAD.

The NAD is not cheap, surely you must have better alternatives available to you?

I am sure that there are other options, but the ones that I mentioned are available for risk free home trial.

 

[steve_1979]

I'f like to be at a place where they sound clean, dynamic and engaging.

Easy peasy.......... 8)

Buy a good quality integrated amplifier with a minimum of 100 wpc, more if possible.

+1

I agree that your amplifier isn't up to the job of driving those KEF's properly even at low volume. Considering you have hard to drive speakers in a largish room I'd say you should be aiming for at least 100 watts per channel.

If you can't afford a proper stereo hifi amplifier with 100 watts per channel it may be worth considering an AV receiver with 100 watts per channel instead because they can sound surprising good and have lots of other useful functions built in too.

 

[pauln]

Maybe you just got taken in by the Kef hype which is, IMHO, quite prevalent in these parts. By chance I listened to some Kef R700's the other day, simply because they were set up in the dealers I was in. I was distinctly underwhelmed. Compared with the Harbeth p3esr's I listened to they were garbage and certainly not worth two grand. I really don't get why people want to buy speakers that require a high priced monster of an amp to give a half decent sound and then only when it's so loud you need to live in a detached house! :wall:

Hang on, yes I do get it - hype.

 

[davedotco]

The only amp that could do the job is the big NAD, but I have never seen one in the UK so that is largely a guess.

The D3020 will get you nowhere in this situation and I don't much like Yamaha amplifiers (personal preference) hence the tepid endorsment of the NAD.

The NAD is not cheap, surely you must have better alternatives available to you?

I am sure that there are other options, but the ones that I mentioned are available for risk free home trial.

I was thinking of better quality units from more specialist manufacturers but give the big NAD a go.

Do not neglect the stands issue though, just wasting time and money if you don't.

 

[tk1111]

Maybe you just got taken in by the Kef hype which is, IMHO, quite prevalent in these parts. By chance I listened to some Kef R700's the other day, simply because they were set up in the dealers I was in. I was distinctly underwhelmed. Compared with the Harbeth p3esr's I listened to they were garbage and certainly not worth two grand. I really don't get why people want to buy speakers that require a high priced monster of an amp to give a half decent sound and then only when it's so loud you need to live in a detached house! :wall:

Hang on, yes I do get it - hype.

Maybe you are right, and in the end it's the ears that matter.

I remember reading LS50 review from a guy that owns the Harbeth 40.1 - After reading it, I couldn't wait to listen to the LS50 myself.

I am going to try it out with a more powerful amp, and if doesn't make things better, than I'll probably sell the LS50, and go back to Harbeth.

I heard the Compact 7 powered by the Rega Brio, and the sound was superb.

 

[CnoEvil]

Maybe you are right, and in the end it's the ears that matter.

What I, or anyone else thinks is good or bad, is irrelevant. All we can do is give advice and make suggestions based on our experience and taste.....and then it is over to you to decide what is suitable.

Remember, we all have our opinions, and we all think we're right!

 

[davedotco]

Maybe you are right, and in the end it's the ears that matter.

What I, or anyone else thinks is good or bad, is irrelevant. All we can do is give advice and make suggestions based on our experience and taste.....and then it is over to you to decide what is suitable.

Remember, we all have our opinions, and we all think we're right!

Sorry cno, but on this occasion this is just not helpful.

Getting the best out of a pair of LS50s requires them to be properly supported on stands, carefully set up in the room and driven by an amplifier with the capability to do them justice.

This is not negotiable or a matter of opininion, it is the minimum requirement in this particular case. Once the minimun standard is satisfied, then you can try some different options to tailor the performance to your requirements.

 

[CnoEvil]

Sorry cno, but on this occasion this is just not helpful.

Getting the best out of a pair of LS50s requires them to be properly supported on stands, carefully set up in the room and driven by an amplifier with the capability to do them justice.

This is not negotiable or a matter of opininion, it is the minimum requirement in this particular case. Once the minimun standard is satisfied, then you can try some different options to tailor the performance to your requirements.

I was really referring to the fact that personal taste effects what brands we think sound good (eg. Harbeth vs Kef), rather than how to get the best out them, once you've got them......I have made my position very clear on multiple occasions throughout this thread.....which is very much in sync with what you've been saying.

 

[JamesMellor]

I was in the states on holiday and listening to a d3020 450 bucks in NH , thats 300 quid , you'd chance it for the money right ?

when I mentioned I wanted to use it with 4 ohm / 86 dB speakers they said not a cat in hells chance even as a desktop set up , I'm thinking the 3020 wont drive your Kefs

James

 

[CnoEvil]

I was in the states on holiday and listening to a d3020 450 bucks in NH , thats 300 quid , you'd chance it for the money right ?

when I mentioned I wanted to use it with 4 ohm / 86 dB speakers they said not a cat in hells chance even as a desktop set up , I'm thinking the 3020 wont drive your Kefs

James

Since I haven't heard it for myself, I don't know for definite, but here is a quote from Stereophile's review of the D3020:

"but toward the end of the listening period I hooked it up to a pair of glorious KEF LS50s ($1499/pair) and turned the volume up high. I was bowled over by the sound, which easily matched the best I'd ever heard at home, and reminded me in many ways of what I'd recently experienced with the tubed Croft Phono Integrated ($1895)."

 

[Tzutzu]

I haven't read the previous posts (too many - that means the subject is very interesting) but have you considered listening to a pair of Focal Aria 906?

 

[JamesMellor]

They had it on a pair of Kef r500's , silly I know the soundstage was medium , vocals and gituars great but a "flump" in the bass , but that may have been the room , they had it treated with 7 panels but I still think it was too small for the speakers or maybe the Nad was losing it down low .

All I'm saying is I could have got the amp 25 % cheaper and they had nothing to lose selling me it , but they said no chance and they knew they'd never see me again if it didn't work .

I walked away thinkng two things , shame that amp wont work for me , and what would the r500's sound like in my room on the end of a big amp

Not calling the amp , I wanted it

James

 

[CnoEvil]

They had it on a pair of Kef r500's , silly I know the soundstage was medium , vocals and gituars great but a "flump" in the bass , but that may have been the room , they had it treated with 7 panels but I still think it was too small for the speakers or maybe the Nad was losing it down low .

All I'm saying is I could have got the amp 25 % cheaper and they had nothing to lose selling me it , but they said no chance and they knew they'd never see me again if it didn't work .

I walked away thinkng two things , shame that amp wont work for me , and what would the r500's sound like in my room on the end of a big amp

Not calling the amp , I wanted it

James

Any time I've heard the R Series floorstanders driven by an amp without enough power, the quality of the bass (definition) was what suffered.

 

[JamesMellor]

that sounds like the 3020 losing it , i did say it was silly to stick those speakers on it , but good voices and gituars , I think , I think more of the speakers than the amp

 

[CnoEvil]

that sounds like the 3020 losing it , i did say it was silly to stick those speakers on it , but good voices and gituars , I think , I think more of the speakers than the amp

....though the bass on the LS50s would take less controlling. BTW I'm not saying you're wrong, only that Stereophile was very complimentary.

EDIT. There have been other good comments on PFM about the pairing.

Ketan Bharadia, the Technical Director of WHF said the following: "While the D 3020 partnered with KEF LS50s sounded good, we didn't quite feel the amplifier managed to get the very best out of them." At least this means they didn't sound horrible.

 

[tk1111]

When looking on Amazon reviews of the D3020, there's a person saying that he's been using it to drive the KEF LS50 and that he was very happy with the results.

I would't bet on the NAD for its specs, but given that few have already said that it's a good combo, I fitured that it's worth the try.

The other integrated that might work for me are: Arcam A19, Bel Canto C5i, Cyrus DAC, I'm also hearing good things about the Roksan, and the Creek 50A. The last one I did found few people online that said that it was underpowered for the KEF.

Finding a powerful integrated with digital inputs and headphone jack is not easy. Given that I prefer one with switchable power supply, the options are further limited.

 

[wilro15]

@Cno what amp are you using with the LS50s?

 

[CnoEvil]

When looking on Amazon reviews of the D3020, there's a person saying that he's been using it to drive the KEF LS50 and that he was very happy with the results.

I would't bet on the NAD for its specs, but given that few have already said that it's a good combo, I fitured that it's worth the try.

The other integrated that might work for me are: Arcam A19, Bel Canto C5i, Cyrus DAC, I'm also hearing good things about the Roksan, and the Creek 50A. The last one I did found few people online that said that it was underpowered for the KEF.

Finding a powerful integrated with digital inputs and headphone jack is not easy. Given that I prefer one with switchable power supply, the options are further limited.

Bel Canto C5i could well give you what you're after, so certainly worth an audition.

 

[wilro15]

@tk1111 please do keep posting here with your findings as I am also on the hunt for a more powerful amp with digital inputs

The NAD 390DD looks perfect to me but is very expensive

 

[tk1111]

@tk1111 please do keep posting here with your findings as I am also on the hunt for a more powerful amp with digital inputs

The NAD 390DD looks perfect to me but is very expensive

Indeed the 390DD is interesting. Esp since you can add an analog inputs.

As you said it's very expensive, and it doesn't have headphone input,

I'll keep you posted with my findings.

 

[JamesMellor]

well that could be good snergy , you've got the remember two things CNO , I've been listening to my set up a long time and like it , and they say new stuff is more up front , and I listen to mainly folk music and 70's rock , so maybe thats why I liked the vocals and gituar , still belive the nad was struggling down low , but it wsn't the right speakers

this is why we listen before we buy right ?

 

[npoguy]

I was in the states on holiday and listening to a d3020 450 bucks in NH , thats 300 quid , you'd chance it for the money right ?

when I mentioned I wanted to use it with 4 ohm / 86 dB speakers they said not a cat in hells chance even as a desktop set up , I'm thinking the 3020 wont drive your Kefs

James

Since I haven't heard it for myself, I don't know for definite, but here is a quote from Stereophile's review of the D3020:

"but toward the end of the listening period I hooked it up to a pair of glorious KEF LS50s ($1499/pair) and turned the volume up high. I was bowled over by the sound, which easily matched the best I'd ever heard at home, and reminded me in many ways of what I'd recently experienced with the tubed Croft Phono Integrated ($1895)."

I've got it driving my LS50's right now and I love it. I mentioned this before, but I sold a Parasound A23/P3 and just bought the NAD as a short term replacement while I tested equipment. I've had it for a few months and I don't know if I'll trade it. My room is 14'x17' but I'm listening across the width of the room. Sure, it's not going to give me everything a big rig would, but the connectivty, sound...and price...make it a great option.

 

[CnoEvil]

well that could be good snergy , you've got the remember two things CNO , I've been listening to my set up a long time and like it , and they say new stuff is more up front , and I listen to mainly folk music and 70's rock , so maybe thats why I liked the vocals and gituar , still belive the nad was struggling down low , but it wsn't the right speakers

this is why we listen before we buy right ?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, especially as I haven't heard it.......and I'm certainly not going to tell you what you heard.....I'm just playing devil's advocate, in what I hope is an amicable debate.

 

[tk1111]

I've got it driving my LS50's right now and I love it. I mentioned this before, but I sold a Parasound A23/P3 and just bought the NAD as a short term replacement while I tested equipment. I've had it for a few months and I don't know if I'll trade it. My room is 14'x17' but I'm listening across the width of the room. Sure, it's not going to give me everything a big rig would, but the connectivty, sound...and price...make it a great option.

I'd love to hear more about your experience. At one point I was considering the Parasound P5/A23, but I am much more into form factor that can fit a desktop setting. Can you explain what you mean about "it's not going to give me everything a big rig woud"?

Do you feel that the speakers are underpowered compared to the Parasound system? What exactly is the downside of using it in your experience?