KEF LS50 disappointment :(

[CnoEvil]

eh, another case of an excellent product which works good only with a certain types of music, in certain conditions, under certain weather, and needs to change everything in the system to sounds good, including rewiring a house, moving all the furniture, changing carpets, trashing down some walls, or better rebuilt the house completely or better yet built a new house just for hifi

...anything else is just not trying! :shifty:

 

[Overdose]

eh, another case of an excellent product which works good only with a certain types of music, in certain conditions, under certain weather, and needs to change everything in the system to sounds good, including rewiring a house, moving all the furniture, changing carpets, trashing down some walls, or better rebuilt the house completely or better yet built a new house just for hifi

...anything else is just not trying! :shifty:

Well, this thread is.....

 

[CnoEvil]

Thanks for all responses and also apology from David. Sitting here listening to a few fave albums it does feel like there's a bit of an echo in here. Am moving to a new flat next week that in additional to being carpeted and having curtains, has been sound proofed by the landlord too. Would be interested to see what effect this will have if any on my music enjoyment Oh, someone asked for me to check if they are in phase, and they are although I did discover that the speakers were wired wrong in the sense that the amp thinks that the left speaker is the right one and visa versa. I've changed them to be the correct way around now.

I wouldn't have thought that would make a difference, the Left and Right, that is.

Especially if you sit with your back to the system. :twisted:

 

[audipheonix]

Thanks for all responses and also apology from David. Sitting here listening to a few fave albums it does feel like there's a bit of an echo in here. Am moving to a new flat next week that in additional to being carpeted and having curtains, has been sound proofed by the landlord too. Would be interested to see what effect this will have if any on my music enjoyment Oh, someone asked for me to check if they are in phase, and they are although I did discover that the speakers were wired wrong in the sense that the amp thinks that the left speaker is the right one and visa versa. I've changed them to be the correct way around now.

Has the sound improved after the correction ? Give it some time before you meke up your mind to change it. Have you tried borrowing any of your friends amp to see if it change things. hopefully for good.

 

[KWONAD]

I have no experiance with KEF speakers whatsoever, but i know a bit about room accoustics and wrong advice from others.

My way from Sinatra is a good way to choose your stuf.

in very smal rooms i would choose for a 5.1 av surround amp or a multimedia all in one with a keen surround set of speakers plus subwoofer.

But a stereo system is a puzzle in smal rooms and the hifi searcher must have a bit of goodluck if his new gear sounds wel in the room.

i heard a NAD - B&W combination in a smal study room on you tube and it sounds the way the owner admires.

I hope i can help you solving the terible sound problem and others here on the forum.

When i started with my hifi gear i make also bad desisions and i bought bad hifi. Through the years i learn what wil be good and bad.

mistake one was to buy Mission speakers, two a Pioneer amp and third - tape decks pioneer and sony.

other mistakes, BNS speakers, a Marantz amp. The good stuf were a cd player from Philips, a pioneer equalizer and a philips tuner.

you'l see you not the only one.

 

[Frank Harvey]

My reply had nothing to do with the KEFs or the OP (as I suspect you know) rather your statement regarding your perception of individuals finding fault with speakers being down to their experience, knowledge and sophistication of auditory palette. But I'll give you points for the attempted diversion.

Your reply is in this thread, so it pertains to the subject matter in hand. And you are adding your perception here to what I said. I never mentioned "sophistication of auditory palette", and didn't imply it either.

I shall, however, answer your questions; I have not heard the undoubtedly fine KEFs in question. And re my post about ears and brain, GOOD NEWS, your sense of humour bypass medal is in the post along with a shovel in case you inclined to keep on digging.

No smiley, no humour. Unless it was meant to be "deadpan" - deadpan on a forum doesn't really work unless you are The_Lhc...

 

[namefail]

My reply had nothing to do with the KEFs or the OP (as I suspect you know) rather your statement regarding your perception of individuals finding fault with speakers being down to their experience, knowledge and sophistication of auditory palette. But I'll give you points for the attempted diversion.

Your reply is in this thread, so it pertains to the subject matter in hand. And you are adding your perception here to what I said. I never mentioned "sophistication of auditory palette", and didn't imply it either.

I shall, however, answer your questions; I have not heard the undoubtedly fine KEFs in question. And re my post about ears and brain, GOOD NEWS, your sense of humour bypass medal is in the post along with a shovel in case you inclined to keep on digging.

No smiley, no humour. Unless it was meant to be "deadpan" - deadpan on a forum doesn't really work unless you are The_Lhc...

Yeah you're right dead pan doesn't work a lot of the time and I'll have to assume you've never heard of thread drift or posts that reply to a comment posted after the opening.

 

[zakblue]

eh, another case of an excellent product which works good only with a certain types of music, in certain conditions, under certain weather, and needs to change everything in the system to sounds good, including rewiring a house, moving all the furniture, changing carpets, trashing down some walls, or better rebuilt the house completely or better yet built a new house just for hifi

Actual lol!

 

[davedotco]

This thread is pretty amusing.

I just love the idea that you can take almost any piece of hi-fi equipment and drop it into virtually any system and expect it to give of its best.

Whatever happenned to the art of system building? Seems to have no place in todays 5* orientated market place, I know I go on about how the market has been 'dumbed down' to the standard of the lowest common denominator but this takes the biscuit.

It is no wonder that people coming to hi-fi for the first time get confused and often disapointed when spend good money on some kit that does not remotely come close to their expectations and requirements.

 

[Broner]

Whatever happenned to the art of system building?

Considering what is going on with cables and how people perceive massive differences that are not actually produced, I wonder how seriously I should take the 'art of system building'.

Edit: not so say that careful system matching can't improve the system, but I am suggesting that if peoples experiences are significantly changed when changing cables, it must also necessarily mean that there are a lot of perceived changes when changing other components that aren't related to the sound actually emitted.

 

[The_Lhc]

Whatever happenned to the art of system building?

Considering what is going on with cables and how people perceive massive differences that are not actually produced, I wonder how seriously I should take the 'art of system building'.

Edit: not so say that careful system matching can't improve the system, but I am suggesting that if peoples experiences are significantly changed when changing cables, it must also necessarily mean that there are a lot of perceived changes when changing other components that aren't related to the sound actually emitted.

I think the comment was more related to making sure your amp and speakers are well matched, rather than cables.

 

[Broner]

Ehhm, I got that Dave wasn't talking about cables. I think you misinterpreted my comment.

 

[The_Lhc]

Ehhm, I got that Dave wasn't talking about cables. I think you misinterpreted my comment.

You'd better explain it then because if you're not talking about cables then you appear to be suggesting that the amp and speakers don't make any difference to the sound being created, which is an interesting point of view.

 

[davedotco]

Given that decent digital replay is now fairly easy to achieve, the emphasis is, primarily on the amplifier/speaker interface and the the speaker/room interface.

A lot of speaker manufacturers make out that their products are easy to drive and that may be true by some standards, but the number of systems that I hear where the amplifier is clearly not in control of the speakers suggests that is not the case in the real world.

Even in this thread we see people complaining of the LS50 sounding brash or bright while others insisting that this is not the case.

Who is right? Well both parties of course, if you drive a speaker with an amplifier that is 'stressed' by the complex impedance variations around the crossover point then it, the speaker, can sound brash and bright, use an amplifier that can handle these variations and the problem disappears.

Similarly the fashion for inexpensive floorstanding speakers leads to the problems of bass boom that is common on these threads. Once again inappropriate amplification might be the problem but it is equally likely to be room positioning. Matching a loudspeaker to a room is not difficult but it is a skill that seems to be in pretty short supply these days.

 

[Broner]

Ehhm, I got that Dave wasn't talking about cables. I think you misinterpreted my comment.

You'd better explain it then because if you're not talking about cables then you appear to be suggesting that the amp and speakers don't make any difference to the sound being created, which is an interesting point of view.

No offense, but I reread my comment and it is perfectly clear what I am saying. I am saying that it is clear that people very clearly hear differences between components even if hose differences are not caused by the different components (e.g. cables). This logic necessarily also applies to other components in the system because things such as expectation bias do not exclusively apply to cables. Hence, while people may feel they are improving or fine-tuning the system, each time they could also be the victim of the ways in which their brains mediate their experiences.

It makes me wonder to which degree people just keep fooling themselves over and over again. That is not to say that amps and speakers don't make a difference to the sound being created, but for a significant degree it makes me wonder how well people are naturally equipped to perceive differences. For cables there always is a discussion going on, but for speakers, because we know they can sound differently, people assume that the differences we hear are also differences being emitted by the system.

 

[The_Lhc]

Ehhm, I got that Dave wasn't talking about cables. I think you misinterpreted my comment.

You'd better explain it then because if you're not talking about cables then you appear to be suggesting that the amp and speakers don't make any difference to the sound being created, which is an interesting point of view.

No offense, but I reread my comment and it is perfectly clear what I am saying. I am saying that it is clear that people very clearly hear differences between components even if hose differences are not caused by the different components (e.g. cables). This logic necessarily also applies to other components in the system because things such as expectation bias do not exclusively apply to cables. Hence, while people may feel they are improving or fine-tuning the system, each time they could also be the victim of the ways in which their brains mediate their experiences.

It makes me wonder to which degree people just keep fooling themselves over and over again. That is not to say that amps and speakers don't make a difference to the sound being created, but for a significant degree it makes me wonder how well people are naturally equipped to perceive differences. For cables there always is a discussion going on, but for speakers, because we know they can sound differently, people assume that the differences we hear are also differences being emitted by the system.

Yes, I got all that, I just don't see what it has to do with a case like this that clearly illustrates the problems caused with a serious mis-match between amp and speakers. We're not talking about a little tweak with a cable or anything like that.

The LS-50s have been discussed many times on here and one of the recurring themes is that they require a decent amp to drive them properly but you seem to be suggesting that doesn't matter?

 

[Broner]

Yes, I got all that, I just don't see what it has to do with a case like this that...

If you read back you can see it is only a response to a small remark made by Dave. That's all.

The LS-50s have been discussed many times on here and one of the recurring themes is that they require a decent amp to drive them properly but you seem to be suggesting that doesn't matter?

That would be a misinterpretation of what I said.

 

[CnoEvil]

The LS-50s have been discussed many times on here and one of the recurring themes is that they require a decent amp to drive them properly but you seem to be suggesting that doesn't matter?

He's saying that if you can here a difference in cables, your view on everything else is suspect.........well that's me fffked!

 

[davedotco]

The LS-50s have been discussed many times on here and one of the recurring themes is that they require a decent amp to drive them properly but you seem to be suggesting that doesn't matter?

He's saying that if you can here a difference in cables, your view on everything else is suspect.........well that's me fffked!

Me too, and, by and large, I am a cable 'sceptic'........ :silenced:

 

[Broner]

The LS-50s have been discussed many times on here and one of the recurring themes is that they require a decent amp to drive them properly but you seem to be suggesting that doesn't matter?

He's saying that if you can here a difference in cables, your view on everything else is suspect.........well that's me fffked!

It applies to everyone, not just to cable huggers . My own hearing is suspect number 1.

 

[CnoEvil]

The LS-50s have been discussed many times on here and one of the recurring themes is that they require a decent amp to drive them properly but you seem to be suggesting that doesn't matter?

He's saying that if you can here a difference in cables, your view on everything else is suspect.........well that's me fffked!

It applies to everyone, not just to cable huggers . My own hearing is suspect number 1.

That makes me feel so much better!

 

[flavasava824]

I personally own a pair of LS50s and I truly believe they sound marvellous. Like a mini Kef Blade in my bedroom.

However, it took a lot to get right. I had to treat my room, get a new amp and a new loom of cables.

If it were up to me, I would tuck the LS50's under your arm and go to your friend's house (the one who owns the q1) and hook it up there. If the sound is still bad, then it is the LS50- it may be faulty or you simply don't like it.

If it sounds great, then you know that it is either your electronics or your room which is underperforming.

 

[jaxwired]

Sure, it means your sitting behind the band instead of in front if it. : )

 

[jaxwired]

I wouldn't have thought that would make a difference, the Left and Right, that is.

Sure, it means you're sitting behind the band instead of in front of it. : )

 

[ErikM]

I tried to read all the posts but the answer is very simple.. Take your LS50 into a KEF dealer and compare them to the R300.. or the R500 if you want to go with a floor stander.. the R300 do all the things the LS50 does.. but have more body and way more bass.. The New R series aren't quite as transparent as the LS50 but that won't matter to you.. trust me the R300 or the R500.. you'll be very happy..FYI I own R300 and compared them to the LS50.. I bought R300...