Just noticed something bad - advice needed!

[JamesOK]

Hi all,

Bit of background - I used to have an Arcam setup. A85/P85 bi amped to my B&W DM603S3. Got rid of the Arcam and got a new Naim setup (CD5i2 and Nait5i2) a few months back. Still have the same speakers, will get rid of them eventually when time/money permits, but for now theyre staying.

On the majority of music the system is great - but I have just stuck a CD in that I havent listened to for a while and have found a problem! The CD is Justice - Cross. For those who dont know them, its french electro with quite a bit of heavy basslines. On the tracks with more bass I am getting a funny kind of (for want of a better word) "after sound". Its kind of like someone hitting a very small garage door behind the speakers, and rumbling it when a really low bit of bass comes in, slightly after the actual beat!

I had trouble with bass with my previous setup, until someone on here told me about the famous Tesco granite chopping boards under the speaker trick and it went away. Well it now seems to have come back, the speakers are in exactly the same position, its just the amp and cd that have changed.

Does anyone have any ideas on what may be causing this? Is it purely that B&W and Naim dont pair well together? Is it that the amp is not powerful enough to drive my speakers? Is it that my B&Ws are just not up to the job Naim is giving them?

Any thoughts gratefully received. And will probably persuade me sooner rather than later to part with my faithful B&Ws...

 

[a91gti]

Check that all screws and such on your speakers are good and tight, quite often its the simple things.

 

[JamesOK]

andrewknight:
Check that all screws and such on your speakers are good and tight, quite often its the simple things.

Yep done that - all looks ok. I was wondering whether its just that my Naim setup is not a good pair with the B&W. Funny how its only on really deep bass too.

 

[a91gti]

Mmm, have you checked the ohmage of the amp against the speakers? Oh and the wattages, could be that the amp doesn't like the speakers or vice versa.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Also check the speaker terminals, the floorspikes, anything able to rattle loose. Oh, and anything in the room that may get excited - in the vibrational sense - by very low bass. Knew a chap who had just such an odd sound which he coudn't track down, and eventually worked out that it was an ornament on a shelf which had been moved for cleaning, and put back in a slightly different place, in which it was susceptible to resonance.

In another case, we eventually tracked it down to a loose piece of glass in a picture frame!

 

[JamesOK]

Andrew Everard:
Also check the speaker terminals, the floorspikes, anything able to rattle loose. Oh, and anything in the room that may get excited - in the vibrational sense - by very low bass. Knew a chap who had just such an odd sound which he coudn't track down, and eventually worked out that it was an ornament on a shelf which had been moved for cleaning, and put back in a slightly different place, in which it was susceptible to resonance.

In another case, we eventually tracked it down to a loose piece of glass in a picture frame!

OK will have a good check. Sounds like youre thinking its something in the room then rather than a mis match between my setup and my speakers. Never noticed this when I had my P85, thats not to say something hasnt changed in the room since I changed my amp though.

 

[JoelSim]

JamesOK:Andrew Everard:
Also check the speaker terminals, the floorspikes, anything able to rattle loose. Oh, and anything in the room that may get excited - in the vibrational sense - by very low bass. Knew a chap who had just such an odd sound which he coudn't track down, and eventually worked out that it was an ornament on a shelf which had been moved for cleaning, and put back in a slightly different place, in which it was susceptible to resonance.

In another case, we eventually tracked it down to a loose piece of glass in a picture frame!

OK will have a good check. Sounds like youre thinking its something in the room then rather than a mis match between my setup and my speakers. Never noticed this when I had my P85, thats not to say something hasnt changed in the room since I changed my amp though.

LOL, shouldn't have sold the Arcs.

 

[JamesOK]

JoelSim:JamesOK:Andrew Everard:
Also check the speaker terminals, the floorspikes, anything able to rattle loose. Oh, and anything in the room that may get excited - in the vibrational sense - by very low bass. Knew a chap who had just such an odd sound which he coudn't track down, and eventually worked out that it was an ornament on a shelf which had been moved for cleaning, and put back in a slightly different place, in which it was susceptible to resonance.

In another case, we eventually tracked it down to a loose piece of glass in a picture frame!

OK will have a good check. Sounds like youre thinking its something in the room then rather than a mis match between my setup and my speakers. Never noticed this when I had my P85, thats not to say something hasnt changed in the room since I changed my amp though.

LOL, shouldn't have sold the Arcs.

Hang on a minute - havent you sold yours!!?

I really wanted something new and a bit more exciting than the Arcam setup. Which is certainly what I got. Just hope its the combination of B&W and Naim + room thats causing the problem...

 

[JoelSim]

JamesOK:JoelSim:JamesOK:Andrew Everard:
Also check the speaker terminals, the floorspikes, anything able to rattle loose. Oh, and anything in the room that may get excited - in the vibrational sense - by very low bass. Knew a chap who had just such an odd sound which he coudn't track down, and eventually worked out that it was an ornament on a shelf which had been moved for cleaning, and put back in a slightly different place, in which it was susceptible to resonance.

In another case, we eventually tracked it down to a loose piece of glass in a picture frame!

OK will have a good check. Sounds like youre thinking its something in the room then rather than a mis match between my setup and my speakers. Never noticed this when I had my P85, thats not to say something hasnt changed in the room since I changed my amp though.

LOL, shouldn't have sold the Arcs.

I really wanted something new and a bit more exciting than the Arcam setup. Which is certainly what I got. Just hope its the combination of B&W and Naim + room thats causing the problem...

Yep, but I went for the same overall sound that I knew I liked. I can't comment fully on my upgrade yet as my rack is still 'in production', but the Arcs still hold a dear place in my heart. Give me a week and I will give a proper first impression on the AA amp. It's very nice so far but not like for like on placement thus far due to redecoration.

Going one step further, I don't think the Arcam and Naim sounds are for the same people, plus B&W is distinctive too.

 

[JamesOK]

JoelSim:

Going one step further, I don't think the Arcam and Naim sounds are for the same people, plus B&W is distinctive too.

I agree up to a point - theyre very different sounds, but I dont believe people are only programmed to like one sound. I had been tiring of Arcam stuff for quite a while, and in the end decided to go for something different. I love the presentation of my new system, the detail and the delivery of the music is exciting. My problem is certainly something to do with setup/positioning/pairing of the equipment as the sound problem is not a matter of me just not liking it, but something in the delivery of that low bass being wrong. I am going to check out what is going on tomorrow, and in the longer term - look for some new speakers.

 

[jaxwired]

JoelSim:Going one step further, I don't think the Arcam and Naim sounds are for the same people...

Interesting theory. Sort of like Dynaudio and Spendor are for different people also.

 

[JamesOK]

JamesOK:Andrew Everard:
Also check the speaker terminals, the floorspikes, anything able to rattle loose. Oh, and anything in the room that may get excited - in the vibrational sense - by very low bass. Knew a chap who had just such an odd sound which he coudn't track down, and eventually worked out that it was an ornament on a shelf which had been moved for cleaning, and put back in a slightly different place, in which it was susceptible to resonance.

In another case, we eventually tracked it down to a loose piece of glass in a picture frame!

OK will have a good check. Sounds like youre thinking its something in the room then rather than a mis match between my setup and my speakers. Never noticed this when I had my P85, thats not to say something hasnt changed in the room since I changed my amp though.

Well Ive had a good look about today - and cant see anything obvious. (The joys of home working). Its certainly only on very low frequency. I am actually starting to wonder if its the room. My stereo is in its own room, but the room is upstairs. And although I have the speakers on granite boards and squash balls on to carpet, with the tracks that have the bad rumbling I can go in to the room directly below and there seems to be a slight rumble in that room also! Cant understand why it didnt happen with my Arcam though.

 

[a91gti]

Sounds like maybe a floorboard moving on a joist. Maybe the Arcam wasn`t going as low as the new toy?

 

[JamesOK]

andrewknight:Sounds like maybe a floorboard moving on a joist. Maybe the Arcam wasn`t going as low as the new toy?

Thats an interesting point Andrew. I have been assuming its a problem with the system setup, maybe its just I get lower bass from the new system and therefore need to take preventitive action with yet more chopping boards and squash balls.

 

[plarge]

Hi - this appears to be an issue A number of people have come across - replace a component with a better one, and you experience problems - it sounds like there is simply more sound, more energy which is causing an interaction with the room, wheras the Arcam's didn't because the music, the energy simply wasn't there.

I had a similar experience replacing my Nait with pre/power - all sorts of room interactions, because there was more music!! take time to adjust position, move the speakers away from / closer to the walls. Of course, there may be a problem with the speakers which the extra energy being created is showing up!! What speaker cable are you using?

Paul

 

[JamesOK]

plarge:
Hi - this appears to be an issue A number of people have come across - replace a component with a better one, and you experience problems - it sounds like there is simply more sound, more energy which is causing an interaction with the room, wheras the Arcam's didn't because the music, the energy simply wasn't there.

I had a similar experience replacing my Nait with pre/power - all sorts of room interactions, because there was more music!! take time to adjust position, move the speakers away from / closer to the walls. Of course, there may be a problem with the speakers which the extra energy being created is showing up!! What speaker cable are you using?

Paul

I dont think theres anything wrong with the speakers - I checked em over after suggestions in this thread. I see what youre saying about there just being more music though. Thats very possible. Perhaps I need to go through the setup process as I did when I had my original kit again for my new stuff. At least I know the music thats going to make the problem manifest itself! I'll try some different positioning etc when I have some time. Speaker cable is Chord Silver Anniversary.