It seems non-audiophiles never tire of proving that everything sounds the same.

[Clare Newsome]

this hasn't really been an "'either/or' polemic" kind of thread

My eyes glaze a bit when folk talk vinyl/tapes etc,

Ahem.

 

[manicm]

i think manicm should shut us all up, and post the results of his flac/wav ab-x test. :help:

It is not and never was my intention of proving any scientific fact or results for what some of us perceive differences of whatever nature be it between lossless/uncompressed or others. Paul Stephenson has not provided any scientific evidence as far as I can tell, but truly believes Naim can hear differences.

If Naim have an agenda then so do Linn. And as someone posted here, if our ears are unreliable what must I rely on, my posterior??? Please!!!!!

I'm not denying any scientific evidence or measurements, but a corollary stands that you also need to prove that during playback there are no differences between different formats. And none has been provided.

No, the theory is that certain formats are audibly indistinguishable. To discount a theory, you have to prove it wrong. Just like nobody has ever come up with any evidence against evolution(by natural selection) since Darwin first discovered it, nobody (as far as I know) has come up with evidence that (for example) WAV and FLAC sound different. You can't prove a negative.

And does fr0g (or was it someone else) really believe we're complete fools to believe there's no audible difference between MP3 and CD, does he???

I believe most people cannot tell them apart at high bit rates, yes. Again, I've seen the results of quite a few ABX tests and so far I've not seen a positive result. That doesn't mean nobody can tell them apart, I never claimed that. However I don't believe you can. And it's easy to prove me wrong. And if you do, then I'll congratulate you on your remarkable hearing.

It's this kind of thoroughly offensive condascension that I can't swallow, or won't. To quote Sting - I'm too full to swallow my pride.

And it's this kind of misguided righteous indignation that many people who simply want to do the science can't stomach. Nobody has been condascending as far as I can remember. You are working yourself up into a frenzy over other opinions when to be fair, most on the thread have discussed rather than ranted.

fr0g - your name says it all - your response is a croak and that's all there is to it.

 

[Anonymous]

Steve, are we supposed to ABX those posts to see if we can spot the differences?

That's what happens when posting and tapping along to music at the same time.

See edit.

 

[manicm]

And does fr0g (or was it someone else) really believe we're complete fools to believe there's no audible difference between MP3 and CD, does he???

well, there are plenty of mp3/wav comparison files on various forums available to download and compare yourself. once the bit-rate passes a certain point, i'm not aware of anyone who can reliably differentiate between them. i know i can't.

Forget mp3/wav comparisons - a while back, which I'm sure many will remember - someone posted a link to compare different bitrate MP3s - and I passed the test first time.

 

[Anonymous]

It's not necessary to ABX test to ensure you're making the right decision, just have a little faith....

But it might still be a good idea to audition at home..

 

[Alec]

this hasn't really been an "'either/or' polemic" kind of thread

My eyes glaze a bit when folk talk vinyl/tapes etc,

Ahem.

Oh, but I'm not knocking them, I just don't use them (though well after we got CDs I'd make compilations on of the best of those CDs on tapes, but not since the late 90's I think). I have no quarrel, however, with anyone who does.

 

[Alec]

And does fr0g (or was it someone else) really believe we're complete fools to believe there's no audible difference between MP3 and CD, does he???

well, there are plenty of mp3/wav comparison files on various forums available to download and compare yourself. once the bit-rate passes a certain point, i'm not aware of anyone who can reliably differentiate between them. i know i can't.

Forget mp3/wav comparisons - a while back, which I'm sure many will remember - someone posted a link to compare different bitrate MP3s - and I passed the test first time.

Fluke!

 

[BenLaw]

i think manicm should shut us all up, and post the results of his flac/wav ab-x test. :help:

It is not and never was my intention of proving any scientific fact or results for what some of us perceive differences of whatever nature be it between lossless/uncompressed or others. Paul Stephenson has not provided any scientific evidence as far as I can tell, but truly believes Naim can hear differences.

If Naim have an agenda then so do Linn. And as someone posted here, if our ears are unreliable what must I rely on, my posterior??? Please!!!!!

I'm not denying any scientific evidence or measurements, but a corollary stands that you also need to prove that during playback there are no differences between different formats. And none has been provided.

No, the theory is that certain formats are audibly indistinguishable. To discount a theory, you have to prove it wrong. Just like nobody has ever come up with any evidence against evolution(by natural selection) since Darwin first discovered it, nobody (as far as I know) has come up with evidence that (for example) WAV and FLAC sound different. You can't prove a negative.

And does fr0g (or was it someone else) really believe we're complete fools to believe there's no audible difference between MP3 and CD, does he???

I believe most people cannot tell them apart at high bit rates, yes. Again, I've seen the results of quite a few ABX tests and so far I've not seen a positive result. That doesn't mean nobody can tell them apart, I never claimed that. However I don't believe you can. And it's easy to prove me wrong. And if you do, then I'll congratulate you on your remarkable hearing.

It's this kind of thoroughly offensive condascension that I can't swallow, or won't. To quote Sting - I'm too full to swallow my pride.

And it's this kind of misguided righteous indignation that many people who simply want to do the science can't stomach. Nobody has been condascending as far as I can remember. You are working yourself up into a frenzy over other opinions when to be fair, most on the thread have discussed rather than ranted.

fr0g - your name says it all - your response is a croak and that's all there is to it.

Very constructive :roll:

 

[The_Lhc]

thoroughly offensive condascension

That should be "condescension", you funny little chap...

What do you mean this isn't the "Hi-Fi Humour" thread?

 

[John Duncan]

And there was me thinking we were keeping this away from personal insults...

 

[Alec]

And there was me thinking we were keeping this away from personal insults...

But it was just a tad funny.

 

[The_Lhc]

And there was me thinking we were keeping this away from personal insults...

Jus' mi little joke occifer! 's'ironic or something, innit?

 

[The_Lhc]

And there was me thinking we were keeping this away from personal insults...

But it was just a tad funny.

Damn, I was aiming for a "smidge".

 

[Alec]

And there was me thinking we were keeping this away from personal insults...

But it was just a tad funny.

Damn, I was aiming for a "smidge".

Oooooohhhh, so close!

 

[Lee H]

And there was me thinking we were keeping this away from personal insults...

But it was just a tad funny.

Damn, I was aiming for a "smidge".

Oooooohhhh, so close!

I can't tell a smidge from a tad in an ABX test anyway.

 

[John Duncan]

A gnat's chuff, however, is another matter?

 

[Alec]

A gnat's chuff, however, is another matter?

Different entirely, I'd imagine; I for one would struggle to find the gnat, let alone...um...

 

[John Duncan]

Or am I thinking of 'midge'?

 

[fr0g]

i think manicm should shut us all up, and post the results of his flac/wav ab-x test. :help:

It is not and never was my intention of proving any scientific fact or results for what some of us perceive differences of whatever nature be it between lossless/uncompressed or others. Paul Stephenson has not provided any scientific evidence as far as I can tell, but truly believes Naim can hear differences.

If Naim have an agenda then so do Linn. And as someone posted here, if our ears are unreliable what must I rely on, my posterior??? Please!!!!!

I'm not denying any scientific evidence or measurements, but a corollary stands that you also need to prove that during playback there are no differences between different formats. And none has been provided.

No, the theory is that certain formats are audibly indistinguishable. To discount a theory, you have to prove it wrong. Just like nobody has ever come up with any evidence against evolution(by natural selection) since Darwin first discovered it, nobody (as far as I know) has come up with evidence that (for example) WAV and FLAC sound different. You can't prove a negative.

And does fr0g (or was it someone else) really believe we're complete fools to believe there's no audible difference between MP3 and CD, does he???

I believe most people cannot tell them apart at high bit rates, yes. Again, I've seen the results of quite a few ABX tests and so far I've not seen a positive result. That doesn't mean nobody can tell them apart, I never claimed that. However I don't believe you can. And it's easy to prove me wrong. And if you do, then I'll congratulate you on your remarkable hearing.

It's this kind of thoroughly offensive condascension that I can't swallow, or won't. To quote Sting - I'm too full to swallow my pride.

And it's this kind of misguided righteous indignation that many people who simply want to do the science can't stomach. Nobody has been condascending as far as I can remember. You are working yourself up into a frenzy over other opinions when to be fair, most on the thread have discussed rather than ranted.

fr0g - your name says it all - your response is a croak and that's all there is to it.

Seeing as you are obviously lost for an intelligent reply, here's a nice music video for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7BAVFcTTw

 

[Clare Newsome]

Or am I thinking of 'midge'?

Ure not sure?

It means nothing to me...

 

[The_Lhc]

Or am I thinking of 'midge'?

Altogether now, "It means nothing to me..."

"Oh Mamma Mia, Mammi Mia, let me go!"

aaah, the classics...

 

[Frank Harvey]

And there was me thinking we were keeping this away from personal insults...

But it was just a tad funny.

Damn, I was aiming for a "smidge".

:rofl:

 

[Anonymous]

[/quote]

If i want to persue what i think is an accurate portral of the recorded medium and how i percieve it to be then thats what i'll do. I know a piano sounds like a piano and i know a drum sounds like a drum but i'm never going to be able reproduce a full scale realistic interpretation of that sound in my or any other stereo system because it isnt a piano and isnt a drum. All i can do is reproduce what has been produced however that is. I have no power over the what goes on in a studio with miking and mixdowns and how they want us to interprit a sound or an artist. And in most cases it will be different to when you here them live.

For me if you want to listen to music in it's real form then listen to live music, if not be happy to listen to a producers redition of it but still be happy.

[/quote]

 

[manicm]

i think manicm should shut us all up, and post the results of his flac/wav ab-x test. :help:

It is not and never was my intention of proving any scientific fact or results for what some of us perceive differences of whatever nature be it between lossless/uncompressed or others. Paul Stephenson has not provided any scientific evidence as far as I can tell, but truly believes Naim can hear differences.

If Naim have an agenda then so do Linn. And as someone posted here, if our ears are unreliable what must I rely on, my posterior??? Please!!!!!

I'm not denying any scientific evidence or measurements, but a corollary stands that you also need to prove that during playback there are no differences between different formats. And none has been provided.

No, the theory is that certain formats are audibly indistinguishable. To discount a theory, you have to prove it wrong. Just like nobody has ever come up with any evidence against evolution(by natural selection) since Darwin first discovered it, nobody (as far as I know) has come up with evidence that (for example) WAV and FLAC sound different. You can't prove a negative.

And does fr0g (or was it someone else) really believe we're complete fools to believe there's no audible difference between MP3 and CD, does he???

I believe most people cannot tell them apart at high bit rates, yes. Again, I've seen the results of quite a few ABX tests and so far I've not seen a positive result. That doesn't mean nobody can tell them apart, I never claimed that. However I don't believe you can. And it's easy to prove me wrong. And if you do, then I'll congratulate you on your remarkable hearing.

It's this kind of thoroughly offensive condascension that I can't swallow, or won't. To quote Sting - I'm too full to swallow my pride.

And it's this kind of misguided righteous indignation that many people who simply want to do the science can't stomach. Nobody has been condascending as far as I can remember. You are working yourself up into a frenzy over other opinions when to be fair, most on the thread have discussed rather than ranted.

fr0g - your name says it all - your response is a croak and that's all there is to it.

Seeing as you are obviously lost for an intelligent reply, here's a nice music video for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7BAVFcTTw

So you don't believe I can tell the difference between MP3 and WAV?? You so acquainted with me frog? I'm sorry but your unintelligible rant does not merit the honour of any half-a***d reply. I won't dignify such green and ripe idiocy.

 

[moon]

i think manicm should shut us all up, and post the results of his flac/wav ab-x test. :help:

It is not and never was my intention of proving any scientific fact or results for what some of us perceive differences of whatever nature be it between lossless/uncompressed or others. Paul Stephenson has not provided any scientific evidence as far as I can tell, but truly believes Naim can hear differences.

If Naim have an agenda then so do Linn. And as someone posted here, if our ears are unreliable what must I rely on, my posterior??? Please!!!!!

I'm not denying any scientific evidence or measurements, but a corollary stands that you also need to prove that during playback there are no differences between different formats. And none has been provided.

No, the theory is that certain formats are audibly indistinguishable. To discount a theory, you have to prove it wrong. Just like nobody has ever come up with any evidence against evolution(by natural selection) since Darwin first discovered it, nobody (as far as I know) has come up with evidence that (for example) WAV and FLAC sound different. You can't prove a negative.

And does fr0g (or was it someone else) really believe we're complete fools to believe there's no audible difference between MP3 and CD, does he???

I believe most people cannot tell them apart at high bit rates, yes. Again, I've seen the results of quite a few ABX tests and so far I've not seen a positive result. That doesn't mean nobody can tell them apart, I never claimed that. However I don't believe you can. And it's easy to prove me wrong. And if you do, then I'll congratulate you on your remarkable hearing.

It's this kind of thoroughly offensive condascension that I can't swallow, or won't. To quote Sting - I'm too full to swallow my pride.

And it's this kind of misguided righteous indignation that many people who simply want to do the science can't stomach. Nobody has been condascending as far as I can remember. You are working yourself up into a frenzy over other opinions when to be fair, most on the thread have discussed rather than ranted.

fr0g - your name says it all - your response is a croak and that's all there is to it.

Seeing as you are obviously lost for an intelligent reply, here's a nice music video for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7BAVFcTTw

So you don't believe I can tell the difference between MP3 and WAV?? You so acquainted with me frog? I'm sorry but your unintelligible rant does not merit the honour of any half-a***d reply. I won't dignify such green and ripe idiocy.

Are you ok Manicm?