steve_1979
Well-known member
Gazzip said:steve_1979 said:Vibration paranoia! (I coined the term as my own invention)
Almost every amplifier (both solid state and valve) that I've auditioned or owned I've tried tapping it quite firmly with my knuckles to see if it's effected by vibration. I've tried this both with music playing and when silent with a couple of dozen different amplifiers and I'm yet to come accross one that's effected by vibration.
Maybe your speakers are too **** to pick it up? *pardon*
Nah. The cables just aren't good enough to let the vibration through to the speakers.
Gazzip
Well-known member
Vladimir said:
Although To be honest I would rather have eight useless bits of metal than two.....
Gazzip
Well-known member
steve_1979 said:Gazzip said:steve_1979 said:Vibration paranoia! (I coined the term as my own invention
Almost every amplifier (both solid state and valve) that I've auditioned or owned I've tried tapping it quite firmly with my knuckles to see if it's effected by vibration. I've tried this both with music playing and when silent with a couple of dozen different amplifiers and I'm yet to come accross one that's effected by vibration.
Maybe your speakers are too **** to pick it up? *pardon*
Nah. The cables just aren't good enough to let the vibration through to the speakers.
*ROFL*
steve_1979
Well-known member
Gazzip said:
Good job too! I was about to accuse you of blasphemy against the church of AVI. *aggressive*
steve_1979 said:Vibration paranoia! (I coined the term as my own invention
Almost every amplifier (both solid state and valve) that I've auditioned or owned I've tried tapping it quite firmly with my knuckles to see if it's effected by vibration. I've tried this both with music playing and when silent with a couple of dozen different amplifiers and I'm yet to come accross one that's effected by vibration.
For those interested, here is the physics behind microphony. Vibration stresses the electronic components in the equipment, these stresses lead to small dimensional changes in the components, which in turn lead to small changes in electrical parameters, which in turn lead to small changes in electrical levels, which in turn become part of the audio signal.
Modern electronics have tiny electrical components surface mounted onto PCBs. While not completely immune, this type of construction makes the circuitry highly resistant to microphony. The active components, microelectronic semicondutors are too damn small to be impacted.
Valves are large, and have bits suspended inside them on thin wires. Tap a valve and the innards wobble, changing the electrical parameters. I have yet to find a valve amp that doesn't go 'boing' out of the speaker if you tap a valve early in the signal chain.
Turntables are by design vibration sensors - its hardly surprising that they are highly microphonic. Best thing to do (if you can) is have the turntable in a different room to the speakers. Not always practical....
Al ears
Well-known member
I see Vladimir's synopsis of the Stillpoint isolation device is as factual as ever.
Anyone considering these to 'improve' a system which may or may not cost under £3000 really does need to professional help. Unless you are a lottery winner or happen to be an Arabian oil-sheik then these should not be considered.... of course if you are either of the aforementioned then ... what the heck are you doing on this forum??
Anyone considering these to 'improve' a system which may or may not cost under £3000 really does need to professional help. Unless you are a lottery winner or happen to be an Arabian oil-sheik then these should not be considered.... of course if you are either of the aforementioned then ... what the heck are you doing on this forum??
I think comments like the above are a bit unecessary and an attempt to steer people away from spending money where they dont want them to by making insulting comments - but everyone is entitled to a comment, I dont think I need to see a doctor for feeling this this - maybe about a few other things I do.
Stillpoints work as described and if you watched the video I linked to they have put a demo on infront of 20 or more people to show that fact and even though its only a small reflection of the actual event you can even hear the sound change on the you tube video. Well I can on my headphones playing off my computer soundcard - I doubt you could watching off a phone speaker or something like that, tablet speaker or whatever so no need for the barrage of insults or joke comments
They are bloody expensive no doubt - but they can also be demo'd for free - my dealer was going to bring round a box full to try them all out but I had to cancel due to a terrible personal situation at the time. I have since spent that budget elsewhere but I will be going back at some point hopefully in the future money permitting.
I was extremely sceptical, I thought they would make no difference and was over priced for what they would do - I had what I thought was a great product already, but I was wrong, they work really well and it didnt take me long to hear the difference. I literally went straight up the shop that day and bought some despite the price, I have never done that before. They know that as well if you want them you have to pay for them same as everything else.
If someone wants to try a much cheaper approach I have found a solution that does a similar job for a lot less money. Its not quite as good but it still works really well and the benefits are there and I a more than happy to recommend these products. They cost about £100 a set of 4 and the guy who makes them is a really nice, genuine guy!! I found them better than the original stillpoints that were cone shaped testing I did of 4 vs 3. Didnt test 4 vs 4 so that could make a difference obviously but thats irrelevant - they work and they are priced to I feel to be affordable to the majority of people.
The Stillpoints are aimed at people who do spend a lot of money on their systems - I dont see the issue with that, so is a lot of other stuff. A lot of other normal hobbyists might be box happy and feel what they own is good enough and they have found contempt in their Sound Quality. For me these products are also for those people, who are interested in getting better sound still - unless you try them you dont know how much better it can still get. I like their saying - "They are a Necessity not an Accessory" Top Stuff
Each to their own though as always
One good and informative review
Another one I cant find the one I am looking for which was really good
Stillpoints work as described and if you watched the video I linked to they have put a demo on infront of 20 or more people to show that fact and even though its only a small reflection of the actual event you can even hear the sound change on the you tube video. Well I can on my headphones playing off my computer soundcard - I doubt you could watching off a phone speaker or something like that, tablet speaker or whatever so no need for the barrage of insults or joke comments
They are bloody expensive no doubt - but they can also be demo'd for free - my dealer was going to bring round a box full to try them all out but I had to cancel due to a terrible personal situation at the time. I have since spent that budget elsewhere but I will be going back at some point hopefully in the future money permitting.
I was extremely sceptical, I thought they would make no difference and was over priced for what they would do - I had what I thought was a great product already, but I was wrong, they work really well and it didnt take me long to hear the difference. I literally went straight up the shop that day and bought some despite the price, I have never done that before. They know that as well if you want them you have to pay for them same as everything else.
If someone wants to try a much cheaper approach I have found a solution that does a similar job for a lot less money. Its not quite as good but it still works really well and the benefits are there and I a more than happy to recommend these products. They cost about £100 a set of 4 and the guy who makes them is a really nice, genuine guy!! I found them better than the original stillpoints that were cone shaped testing I did of 4 vs 3. Didnt test 4 vs 4 so that could make a difference obviously but thats irrelevant - they work and they are priced to I feel to be affordable to the majority of people.
The Stillpoints are aimed at people who do spend a lot of money on their systems - I dont see the issue with that, so is a lot of other stuff. A lot of other normal hobbyists might be box happy and feel what they own is good enough and they have found contempt in their Sound Quality. For me these products are also for those people, who are interested in getting better sound still - unless you try them you dont know how much better it can still get. I like their saying - "They are a Necessity not an Accessory" Top Stuff
Each to their own though as always
One good and informative review
Another one I cant find the one I am looking for which was really good
Gazzip said:
The $4000 MacPro is not usless! It's a perfect toilet dispenser.
Just compare the nano technology invested in making CPU wafers and few metal bits cut on a lathe machine. To me these 'isolation products' are especially funny because I worked both on manual and CNC lathes, routers and drills in school. A 7m long turbine for powerplant generators fully made used to cost $15K to make on a $300K CNC lathe. I had that as a school assignment for a grade.
Regarding sheiks. That is a false assumption that very rich people buy audiophile foo. They have staff and hire service providers for everything. A hi-fi system in a HT room is something done by professional companies and they dont use bloody Stillpoints or Willson Alexandrias and Naim. They use Tannoy, JBL, EV etc. A sheik has no idea what Rega is. He will most likely have voice controled HTPC system with Meridian or B&O. Audio snake oil is bought by people who actually have disposable income and time to read into the snake oil, usually dentist, lawyers, bankers and such. Sheiks buy $1M thoroughbred race horses and hawks with royal pedigree. What's the point of owning a $7M bird except to show everyone that they can go f* themselves, your status is higher than theirs. Richer you become, brand name becomes less important and everything is measured in numbers. Who cares if it's a Rembrandt or a Caravaggio. You only look at the price tag to measure its desirability, a phenomena called Veblen goods.
Anyone remember the funny documentary about Greek audiophiles? No sheiks in that club. Owners of 500K euro systems are upper middle class, middle aged men, who don't have nice summer homes and luxury cars. They saved and made sacrifices to buy their hi-end systems. Their children and spouses will live a less quality life in order to pay for this irrational obsessive indulgance in audiophoolery. "Electricity is 50% of the sound". Same guy: "The rack is 50% of the sound, believe me". Any % left for the actual system to play music?
FFS
if it cost that when you were in school I dare say it costs a fair bit more now....... Nothing costs the same as when I was in school and it was not that long ago.
I swear bags of crisps had more in when I was at school and mars bars were bigger - complete irrelevance
People dont buy stillpoints to say I own stillpoints - thats hardly a room inspiring topic - more like a room clearing topic - especially the poeple who own the rack and lots of the Ultra 5's - serious investment. They are interested in sound quality at home no different to anyone else. Nothing wrong with that - the kids can get university loans, I need more stillpoints ... lol
I swear bags of crisps had more in when I was at school and mars bars were bigger - complete irrelevance
People dont buy stillpoints to say I own stillpoints - thats hardly a room inspiring topic - more like a room clearing topic - especially the poeple who own the rack and lots of the Ultra 5's - serious investment. They are interested in sound quality at home no different to anyone else. Nothing wrong with that - the kids can get university loans, I need more stillpoints ... lol
I am only 33 and the 90's was a long time ago in terms of prices compared to today - you cannot deny that
Here is a good example
Meridian 861 in 1999 was $10750
Meridian 861 today equivalent $18,912 - roughly double
Here is a good example
Meridian 861 in 1999 was $10750
Meridian 861 today equivalent $18,912 - roughly double
CNC has trickled down and is way cheaper now, especially with China going in the market. Now small (garage) shops can have Chinese CNC lathes for 25K and sell you Stillpoints. Not that you need CNC to make such simple machined parts. Low skilled highschool student can do it on manual lathes and routers.
But there is R&D! That's usually where the 8000% markup is concealed. *preved*
But there is R&D! That's usually where the 8000% markup is concealed. *preved*
Manufacturing Cost factor is irrelevant - how much does anything actually cost to make vs what you buy.
The majority of people dont want to spend £25k on a lathe machine and learn how to lath material - they would rather just buy the product all made and shiny. This is a senseless arguement Vlad - although this is exactly how I felt when I had paid £100 for a great product - then I looked at the £400 equivalent from stillpoints - I felt the same as you
I thought they are taking the mick, sellign on the name and bantered my friend who had bought them saying exaclty the same as you to him - until he brought them round for me to try and I was straight up the shop buying some myself - eating my words. This is exactly how it happened as well I dont mind admitting it
The majority of people dont want to spend £25k on a lathe machine and learn how to lath material - they would rather just buy the product all made and shiny. This is a senseless arguement Vlad - although this is exactly how I felt when I had paid £100 for a great product - then I looked at the £400 equivalent from stillpoints - I felt the same as you
I thought they are taking the mick, sellign on the name and bantered my friend who had bought them saying exaclty the same as you to him - until he brought them round for me to try and I was straight up the shop buying some myself - eating my words. This is exactly how it happened as well I dont mind admitting it
Gazzip
Well-known member
Gazzip said:
Exactly why I used Apple products as comparison. They are grossly overpriced lifestyle products. Interestingly Stillpoints go few steps further.
Gazzip said:
I use Asus laptop and a work PC I assembled myself. The black case and PSU together cost $25. Just look how pretty it is, all 3kgs of it.
As comparison I paid $120 for the 240GB SSD and $600 for my Pantone Studio color guides.
Have a tall cold Guinness on me and keep the nut. *drinks*
Gazzip
Well-known member
Vladimir said:
With you being a graphic designer I thought I was on solid ground there. Thanks for letting me keep the testicle.
A mac and a stillpoint have no resemblance.
A PC does everything a mac can do but you can build it yourself for cheaper - However cheaper isolation or support products in my limited admittedly experience do not.
Given the fact that nearly every published review says that nothing they have used before the stillpoints even comes close supports this as well.
They are not lifestyle products - they are the best products or one of them for what they do - but they are expensive as often is the case with such products
A PC does everything a mac can do but you can build it yourself for cheaper - However cheaper isolation or support products in my limited admittedly experience do not.
Given the fact that nearly every published review says that nothing they have used before the stillpoints even comes close supports this as well.
They are not lifestyle products - they are the best products or one of them for what they do - but they are expensive as often is the case with such products
Al ears
Well-known member
ellisdj said:
Are you in any way working or sponsored by the makes of Stillpoints? I think the world should be told....
Al ears said:Are you in any way working or sponsored by the makes of Stillpoints? I think the world should be told....
Aha. But will a shill publicly reveal the true nature of his product endorsments? Sort of defeats the purpose of being a shill. "I'm not selling it. I'm just another happy customer sharing to the world". Caveat emptor.
If that was the case I would also be working for jplay (been suggested) and about 5 other companies at least that I have praised heavily on this forum
I dont work in the industry at all I work in Recruitment. I believe in credit where credits due - when something is good I say it as is it. I just say the truth as I see it and the story behind me trying stillpoints is exactly as it happened
Also If I worked for them I wouldnt be suggesting a product people can buy thats also very good for a lot less money either - but that guys products deserve praise as well because I think their great for the money.
I dont work in the industry at all I work in Recruitment. I believe in credit where credits due - when something is good I say it as is it. I just say the truth as I see it and the story behind me trying stillpoints is exactly as it happened
Also If I worked for them I wouldnt be suggesting a product people can buy thats also very good for a lot less money either - but that guys products deserve praise as well because I think their great for the money.
Gazzip said:
The PC together with a 27" monitor were a total cost of 800 euros, which is $868 (one Stillpoint). It made 1300 euros in the first month and paid itself off.
Gazzip
Well-known member
Al ears
Well-known member
ellisdj said:
I did not mean to denigrate Stillpoints in particular and the benefits they have apparently made to you / your system ( which looks very nice indeed) I was simply trying to point out that suggesting products that cost that much on a forum like this is probably not that beneficial to the average forumee.
I would hazard a guess that most members would, like me, own a system whose total cost could not possibly justify an outlay of this magnitude on what is basically an isolation product. Should they have anywhere near that amount of disposable cash then they are much more likely to enhance their systems sound quality by buying a new source component or amplifier. Doing so they can be sure of noticing improvements that justify their outlay.
I am not sceptical regards the benefits of isolation products per se but I doubt very much the employment of same under a £1500 amp, for example, is necessarily going to make it sound as good as a £4000 amp.
Just my own opinion of course.
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