ellisdj said:
Thanks for posting this review. It is a very thorough and interesting read.
I'm still not 100% sure and I might contact my local dealer (Criterion Audio) to see if I can try some at home. They use Stillpoints but have never given me the hard sell, which I respect in a dealer.
Cheers all for your various comments.
Glad it got a chuckle, to be honest though this would have been better
Actually they come hear a lot to hear the Sound of the Gods - thats more appropriate as well
Actually they come hear a lot to hear the Sound of the Gods - thats more appropriate as well
Bought my isotek titan from Mike at Criterion he is a good guy.
Let me know how you get on with the stillpoints. Make sure you set them up right as well and think about where you put them 4 is better than 3
Let me know how you get on with the stillpoints. Make sure you set them up right as well and think about where you put them 4 is better than 3
Al ears
Well-known member
ellisdj said:
....and six is better than four. Honestly if 3 of these expensive critters equispaced don't do the job then how will 4 do it better.
simple solution - borrow 4 and try 3 and try 4 to see what you think.
4 allows more stability and flexibility because it allows them to be put in the best spot under the kit. As I said before in all 4 corners is not necessarily the best spots - however just inside the exisiting feet is a good starting point
With 3 you are limited to a triangle - one way or the other
As they drain vibration 4 will drain more than 3 so its pretty simple to deduce why 4 is better.
I can advise another great solution at 1/4 cost as well if interested?
4 allows more stability and flexibility because it allows them to be put in the best spot under the kit. As I said before in all 4 corners is not necessarily the best spots - however just inside the exisiting feet is a good starting point
With 3 you are limited to a triangle - one way or the other
As they drain vibration 4 will drain more than 3 so its pretty simple to deduce why 4 is better.
I can advise another great solution at 1/4 cost as well if interested?
What stilloints dont do is alter the sound characteristic.
If you try other solutions - I have not tried them all but they alter the sound somewhat - either toning it down or softening it which can still be beneficial as it can give the sound more calrity and definitiion - pieces of the music are more distinct in their own space and have more space around them - that is improving clarity to me.
Where as the stillpoints - do this but dont change the tonal character at all - they dont smooth the music - they actually do the opposite which is really surprising the music has more verve not sure thats the right word.
Each element of the music not only has more 2D space it also has more 3D space for example bass notes stand right out where before they were just blended in with the sound.
We used Paulo Nuttini - Iron Sky as a test song as it starts with pure bass line then stuff adds to the music. With the stillpoints the bass came forward in the space and was much clearer, fuller and defined. That was enough to hook me but there were other benefits also in treble and vocal the same
With the vocal in that song which is husky as you like with the Stillpoints the vocal had more character and you could hear much clearer the way Paulo was singing kind of from the throat - again this improved clarity to me. The vocal again stood out more as well from the other elements in the music - for me that imrpoved clarity.
Why is the happening - vibration gets added to the sound the same as a reflections do acoustically in a room. the more you remove the more clarity you get, especially for sensitive spacial cues that can give a sound a true 3D character.
I have only heard a truely 3D sound once - and that was a top end system not surpisingly on a full Stillpoints setup of about £15k
Playing this album
If you try other solutions - I have not tried them all but they alter the sound somewhat - either toning it down or softening it which can still be beneficial as it can give the sound more calrity and definitiion - pieces of the music are more distinct in their own space and have more space around them - that is improving clarity to me.
Where as the stillpoints - do this but dont change the tonal character at all - they dont smooth the music - they actually do the opposite which is really surprising the music has more verve not sure thats the right word.
Each element of the music not only has more 2D space it also has more 3D space for example bass notes stand right out where before they were just blended in with the sound.
We used Paulo Nuttini - Iron Sky as a test song as it starts with pure bass line then stuff adds to the music. With the stillpoints the bass came forward in the space and was much clearer, fuller and defined. That was enough to hook me but there were other benefits also in treble and vocal the same
With the vocal in that song which is husky as you like with the Stillpoints the vocal had more character and you could hear much clearer the way Paulo was singing kind of from the throat - again this improved clarity to me. The vocal again stood out more as well from the other elements in the music - for me that imrpoved clarity.
Why is the happening - vibration gets added to the sound the same as a reflections do acoustically in a room. the more you remove the more clarity you get, especially for sensitive spacial cues that can give a sound a true 3D character.
I have only heard a truely 3D sound once - and that was a top end system not surpisingly on a full Stillpoints setup of about £15k
Playing this album
Gazzip
Well-known member
ellisdj said:
I have never tried Stillpoints so am not disputing that they work. However, where is the vibration you refer to coming from? If it is coming from the floor then how did it get in to the floor in the first place? If it was caused by the loudspeaker cabinet itself through the direct coupling of the cabinet spikes/stands with the floor then surely the speaker is vibrating itself anyway (it caused that vibration in the floor) and it will continue to vibrate regardless of whether or not it is on the stillpoints.
If the floor is vibrating as a result of the airbourne LF from the speaker drivers then surely the cabinet will resonate whether or not it is coupled to the floor because the same vibration causing airbourne sound waves will affect the cabinets as much as it affects the floor, and decoupling the speakers from the floor will not prevent this?
I just don't get it?
Thats an interesting topic, I am no guru I just listen to others talking about it and read about it - speakers vibrate - and the first place they suggest you place stillpoints is Directly below them.
This is supposed to reduce cabinet resonance to give a clearer sound but also allow you to hear better the improvements from all other stillpoints products you might use
Now I have Not done this because of my speakers design - they are bolted to the stand and the stillpoints would have to be under the stands instead of spikes, rather than directly under the speaker
Now in defence of the idea - the speaker stands for the Monitor Audio Platinum crudely by comparison already isolate the speakers - Originally I had the PL100's on GX stands and they didnt sound that great - moving them onto the dedicated stands brought about quite a big improvement in clarity - this is the stated case for all the reviews for the speakers as well - So to me there is merit in it / what they are saying for starters
The other causes of vibration - is supposedly 50hz mains hum - power transformers and obviously airbourne vibration - this cannot be stopped but if the stillpoints do drain as suggested they will be reducing this all the time
Depending on who's advice you follow - one advice chain is to follow the path of electricity in terms of where the stillpoints go next. So as you add them you add them in that order , the first place would be under the mains block or power conditioner etc.
There is an interesting video on you tube which a filmed seminar / demo from an american hifi show. Its an hour long but its very interesting and a lot is explained by Roy Gregory better than I can type it. Not saying this the word of God but it is explained very well. Give me a few minutes and I will post the link
I have all but my speakers and subs isolated - everything component is and I have found it to bit by bit to improve the sound. I have found a system thats simialr to the stillpoints in that it doesnt soften the sound but still improves clarity - not to the level of stillpoints but they are 1/4 the cost and when you buy lots of sets that makes a huge difference.
I have found benefit under the Bryston as well - but that was fussy on location otherwise it did nothing
This is supposed to reduce cabinet resonance to give a clearer sound but also allow you to hear better the improvements from all other stillpoints products you might use
Now I have Not done this because of my speakers design - they are bolted to the stand and the stillpoints would have to be under the stands instead of spikes, rather than directly under the speaker
Now in defence of the idea - the speaker stands for the Monitor Audio Platinum crudely by comparison already isolate the speakers - Originally I had the PL100's on GX stands and they didnt sound that great - moving them onto the dedicated stands brought about quite a big improvement in clarity - this is the stated case for all the reviews for the speakers as well - So to me there is merit in it / what they are saying for starters
The other causes of vibration - is supposedly 50hz mains hum - power transformers and obviously airbourne vibration - this cannot be stopped but if the stillpoints do drain as suggested they will be reducing this all the time
Depending on who's advice you follow - one advice chain is to follow the path of electricity in terms of where the stillpoints go next. So as you add them you add them in that order , the first place would be under the mains block or power conditioner etc.
There is an interesting video on you tube which a filmed seminar / demo from an american hifi show. Its an hour long but its very interesting and a lot is explained by Roy Gregory better than I can type it. Not saying this the word of God but it is explained very well. Give me a few minutes and I will post the link
I have all but my speakers and subs isolated - everything component is and I have found it to bit by bit to improve the sound. I have found a system thats simialr to the stillpoints in that it doesnt soften the sound but still improves clarity - not to the level of stillpoints but they are 1/4 the cost and when you buy lots of sets that makes a huge difference.
I have found benefit under the Bryston as well - but that was fussy on location otherwise it did nothing
I think to point out the stillpoints like most other isolation products reduce vibration going into the component - this is common.
I think where they are better is that they also effectivcely drain it away - so its not locked inside the component. The video explains this better but hopefully that answers your question a little better regards to vibration passing into the product
With your standard of investment in your system you owe it to yourself to get a dealer round with a box of them to try out. I have read you saying you think your system cant get any better. I persoanlly think you only hear how good your system is when its on stillpoints and there is a lot people who think the same as this. Its a dramatic improvement even from the mini's
I think where they are better is that they also effectivcely drain it away - so its not locked inside the component. The video explains this better but hopefully that answers your question a little better regards to vibration passing into the product
With your standard of investment in your system you owe it to yourself to get a dealer round with a box of them to try out. I have read you saying you think your system cant get any better. I persoanlly think you only hear how good your system is when its on stillpoints and there is a lot people who think the same as this. Its a dramatic improvement even from the mini's
re: Mains hum, if it were going to affect anything would surely be audiable though the system, and in turn the speakers, would it not?
So in theory, if vibrations are the problem, I should be able to pick up my amp whilst the music is playing and notice an instant difference no?
So in theory, if vibrations are the problem, I should be able to pick up my amp whilst the music is playing and notice an instant difference no?
Gazzip
Well-known member
ellisdj said:
The proof is in the trying I guess so I might just do that. The only place I could physically fit them would be underneath my speakers and their stands sit on carpet, spiked of course. Not sure Stillpoints would work on carpet so they would have to sit between speaker base and top of stand.
Gazzip
Well-known member
cheeseboy said:
Depends if you are a good isolator of vibration. Do you have very, very, densly fat hands and fingers?
I have seen people using them On Wilson Alexandrias on Carpet, or a rug, photos only unfortunately - they sell adaptors to screw into the bottom of speakers / stands. I have seen pictures of them on more modest setups as well.
In terms of shaking an amp around - I think that is taking the point to a crazy extreme to try and discredit a product but its a valid point obviously. I have not tried it comment - its back breaking lifting most amps
When I started looking into stillpoints I found many different manufacturers using them in american hifi shows - high end shows mostly.
Why would they do this - there is no real benefit to advertise someone elses products unless they make your own sound better? But there is 2 sides to this arguement as always
In terms of shaking an amp around - I think that is taking the point to a crazy extreme to try and discredit a product but its a valid point obviously. I have not tried it comment - its back breaking lifting most amps
When I started looking into stillpoints I found many different manufacturers using them in american hifi shows - high end shows mostly.
Why would they do this - there is no real benefit to advertise someone elses products unless they make your own sound better? But there is 2 sides to this arguement as always
This is the video I mentioned - it was sent to me from a friend who had bought stilklpoints and who brought them over to test on my system against the products I was using.
I found it interesting and explanatory
I found it interesting and explanatory
my other concern is that if they really do make such a difference, why don't the high end manufacturers include them, or use their own versions in their amps? Take gazzip and his brystons for example, surely it's no odds if they lob some stillpoints on them to make sure the end user gets the best sound possible?
Yes, I'm very skeptical, but hey ho, it's nice outside, so that's where I'm going shortly
Yes, I'm very skeptical, but hey ho, it's nice outside, so that's where I'm going shortly
Lots of companies do use them to demo their kit as mentioned before - watch the video - take it outside and watch it its nice out as you say. Some companies do incude them with their products as well - check out Core Audio Technology - he includes them with his mains distributiuon and other products he sells
Gazzip
Well-known member
Ay Caramba! I have just seen how much Stillpoints cost!
£4560.00 for a set of 8 Ultra 5's
£1520.00 for a set of 8 Ultra SS's
Surely they cannot possibly be that effective?
£4560.00 for a set of 8 Ultra 5's
£1520.00 for a set of 8 Ultra SS's
Surely they cannot possibly be that effective?
I have only tried the minis - they were about £400 for 4. They are no good under heavy speakers
The system I heard with the full Stillpoints setup the rack etc had Ultra 5's under the speakers - speakers were Estelon XC. They are massive and they would be what I would buy if I could afford it.
However the Ultra SS are in the middle and you will need to check to see if they will support the weight of your speakers and is also why I said get a demo and also why I said they are expensive but Good!
I have just checked your speakers are huge so you would probably need the Ultra 5's and probably 4 of them. Im am sure you could get a bit of a deal on them
The system I heard with the full Stillpoints setup the rack etc had Ultra 5's under the speakers - speakers were Estelon XC. They are massive and they would be what I would buy if I could afford it.
However the Ultra SS are in the middle and you will need to check to see if they will support the weight of your speakers and is also why I said get a demo and also why I said they are expensive but Good!
I have just checked your speakers are huge so you would probably need the Ultra 5's and probably 4 of them. Im am sure you could get a bit of a deal on them
steve_1979
Well-known member
Vibration paranoia! (I coined the term as my own invention )
Almost every amplifier (both solid state and valve) that I've auditioned or owned I've tried tapping it quite firmly with my knuckles to see if it's effected by vibration. I've tried this both with music playing and when silent with a couple of dozen different amplifiers and I'm yet to come accross one that's effected by vibration.
)Almost every amplifier (both solid state and valve) that I've auditioned or owned I've tried tapping it quite firmly with my knuckles to see if it's effected by vibration. I've tried this both with music playing and when silent with a couple of dozen different amplifiers and I'm yet to come accross one that's effected by vibration.
Or $6865, will buy you 8 Stillpoints™ or 350 new vinyl records or 800 CDs. How many books and concert tickets in $6865? A new 27" iMac with 5K display is $2500 and his 6-core dual GPU sibling, the MacPro is $4000. You can buy both and still have $385 left, which is a shame since one Stillpoint™ costs $858.
Stillpoints™ seem to be more of an IQ test than actual isolation products for domestic electric appliances.
Stillpoints™ seem to be more of an IQ test than actual isolation products for domestic electric appliances.
Gazzip
Well-known member
steve_1979 said:Vibration paranoia! (I coined the term as my own invention
Almost every amplifier (both solid state and valve) that I've auditioned or owned I've tried tapping it quite firmly with my knuckles to see if it's effected by vibration. I've tried this both with music playing and when silent with a couple of dozen different amplifiers and I'm yet to come accross one that's effected by vibration.
Maybe your speakers are too **** to pick it up? *pardon*
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