Is the Nad D3020 the answer?

[dellroy]

I posted a thread about my current set-up a couple of days ago, and I would agree from the feedback there that my amp is most likely a weak point in my system.

When I auditioned my current kit I was fairly sure that I would listen to my music via CD and streaming roughly the same amount. However most if not all of my listening comes from streaming Deezer and more recently Tidal via my laptop into a Lindy DAC. Then I have also sampled a HD track album and played via Jriver. Any CD that I want to listen to can be ripped to my laptop and played back through Jriver in FLAC. So my CD player is a bit redundant.

So I am just wondering what forum members think about the NAD D3020. Is this a good step up from my Denon Amp? I was currently thinking about upgrading my DAC in my current set up to help with improving the sound from streaming, but the Nad has a built in DAC which What HiFi says is as good as any seperate DAC up to £200. It also has the benefit of Bluetooth streaming into the DAC. If it's as good as the reviews Says it would seem to be a great solution for me, but the nearest Sevenoaks is about a 3 hour drive for me so auditioning won't be easy.

On a seperate not, what happened to the ability to enter a key word to search the what hifi forums To be able to find all threads with that word in the title?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Ketan Bharadia]

Hi, the NAD's great strength is its range of digital connectiveity coupled to an enjoyable sound. In outright terms I think it's better sounding than the Denon but only you can decide whther the step-up is worth it.

 

[davedotco]

Are you reasonably sure it is what you want and has the functionality you need.

If you are confident, then buy online, unpack and use with great care and use the distance selling regs to return the unit if it does not do what it is supposed to or sound as it should.

I do not advocate doing this just to demo equipment, but if you have done your homework and are confident of your choice, then I think that is pretty fair considering they are not close to you.

 

[Vladimir]

It would be a significant step down from the Denon amp.

 

[unsleepable]

It would be a significant step down from the Denon amp.

I think so, too.

Besides, I usually don't care much about power figures. But the D 3020 is so little powerful (30W @ 4Ohm) that I think it's better suited as a desktop amp.

 

[gasolin]

It would be a significant step down from the Denon amp.

I think so, too.

Besides, I usually don't care much about power figures. But the D 3020 is so little powerful (30W @ 4Ohm) that I think it's better suited as a desktop amp.

Wrong, it's not 30watt at 4 ohm (its's 8 ohm) it's really a 40 watt 8 ohm amp, with 1 % thd it's a 50 watt amp still 8 ohm http://www.soundandvision.com/content/nad-d-3020-hybrid-digital-integrated-amplifier-sv-labs-measures

Haven't heard the denon amp (have heard a denon pma 5.. amp and it was good) but i don't think the overall sound improvement is big enough if there is one(even compared to whathifi reviews of both amp, my cheap denon amp has a very good sound), mabye other speakers is what you should look at if you want better sound

 

[Vladimir]

According to the NAD official site it is 2x30w at 4 ohms 0.05% THD.
http://nadelectronics.com/products/digital-music/D-3020-Hybrid-Digital-Amplifier
1% THD is technically clipping and may damage your speakers.
The Denon, although not a power house, is rated at more than twice the power without clipping and more conservatively rated in matter of fact. A lot of sneaky manipulative half truths posted on the NAD page to fool the ignorant consumer.
It is an overpriced desktop amp, a glorified Lepai. It has no place in the same shelf as the modest but decent Denon.

 

[Esra]

I could imagine the NAD would sound better (cleaner) with your Zensors,as I couldn´t fault it when I run it with my Ls50 for demo,that means something.Besides it gets pretty hot,which is not good to be happy for a long time,i also think it is overpriced.The price would have been ok if they implemented spotify connect like in the 7050 imo.But if you could grab one 30-40% off it´s def. an option for you maybe.

 

[BigH]

It would be a significant step down from the Denon amp.

I think so, too.

Besides, I usually don't care much about power figures. But the D 3020 is so little powerful (30W @ 4Ohm) that I think it's better suited as a desktop amp.

Wrong, it's not 30watt at 4 ohm (its's 8 ohm) it's really a 40 watt 8 ohm amp, with 1 % thd it's a 50 watt amp still 8 ohm http://www.soundandvision.com/content/nad-d-3020-hybrid-digital-integrat...

Haven't heard the denon amp (have heard a denon pma 5.. amp and it was good) but i don't think the overall sound improvement is big enough if there is one(even compared to whathifi reviews of both amp, my cheap denon amp has a very good sound), mabye other speakers is what you should look at if you want better sound

1% THD is very high. So what is the watts @ 8 Ohms at 0.01% THD?

 

[davedotco]

Now I'm not normally a big fan of sighted, subjective evaluations but my limited experience of the D3020 is that it plays louder and cleaner than many budget mainstream amplifiers.

By that I mean it can be turned up quite loud without the sound becoming congested and losing definition, it is certainly no powerhouse, but to my ears it maintains control and focus in a way that other 'conventional' amps do not.

 

[mpapo]

I used to have the NAD D3020 paired with LS50's and found the NAD to be ridiculously underpowered.

 

[Vladimir]

That's why Lepai chip amps became so popular. Few watts will get you a long way, just not all the way to the end.

20W is more than enough for plucking guitars and vocals but not good enough for satisfying SPL levels with classical, rock and electronica or anything with watt sucking bass.

 

[gasolin]

According to the NAD official site it is 2x30w at 4 ohms 0.05% THD. http://nadelectronics.com/products/digital-music/D-3020-Hybrid-Digital-A... 1% THD is technically clipping and may damage your speakers. The Denon, although not a power house, is rated at more than twice the power without clipping and more conservatively rated in matter of fact. A lot of sneaky manipulative half truths posted on the NAD page to fool the ignorant consumer. It is an overpriced desktop amp, a glorified Lepai. It has no place in the same shelf as the modest but decent Denon.

Thats with 0.005% thd and dynamic power at 4 ohm is beyond 100watt

 

[Vladimir]

I bet the PMPO power rating is even more huge.

 

[gasolin]

It would be a significant step down from the Denon amp.

I think so, too.

Besides, I usually don't care much about power figures. But the D 3020 is so little powerful (30W @ 4Ohm) that I think it's better suited as a desktop amp.

Wrong, it's not 30watt at 4 ohm (its's 8 ohm) it's really a 40 watt 8 ohm amp, with 1 % thd it's a 50 watt amp still 8 ohm http://www.soundandvision.com/content/nad-d-3020-hybrid-digital-integrat...

Haven't heard the denon amp (have heard a denon pma 5.. amp and it was good) but i don't think the overall sound improvement is big enough if there is one(even compared to whathifi reviews of both amp, my cheap denon amp has a very good sound), mabye other speakers is what you should look at if you want better sound

1% THD is very high. So what is the watts @ 8 Ohms at 0.01% THD?

5 watt at 0.001% thd at 0.002% thd it's about 30 watt

 

[gasolin]

I used to have the NAD D3020 paired with LS50's and found the NAD to be ridiculously underpowered.

They also say that in a reveiw that they wanted more power for the kef's but sound was impressive (can't remember if it was in a whathifi review)

 

[Vladimir]

For the money you would spend on the NAD you can buy a very good AVR with significantly more power and features. Only benefit from the NAD is its compact size but that size comes at a compromise of power and features. And when something is small and compromised I expect it to be cheap.

NAD D3020 is too expensive for what it is, another Veblen good. Maybe I should buy some NAD and Focal shares and quit puting everyones disposable income back in their pockets.

 

[Vladimir]

Double post.

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

The nad 3020 is a product.

And as a product, he must be compared by yourself to the rest of the contenders on the market for making yourself an opinion about him.

And why is every discussion turning around NAD D3020 recently ?

 

[NS496]

The d3020 is a different kind of design to 'traditional' hifi amps and there are many misconceptions about it. It uses a switch mode power supply (vs more common linear-terroidal). Also Class D amplification vs more common A/B. This why it can use a very compact chassis. It is a sort of 'iMac' in the hifi-separates world..

It is rated at 30W 0.005% (not 0.05% as claimed above). So it is a very honest rating. http://nadelectronics.com/products/digital-music/D-3020-Hybrid-Digital-Amplifier

I use a d3020 to drive B&W 685 S2's (30 wpc would not ordinarily be recommended as apparently the B&W's are evidently very power hungry) and it works well. My Yamaha AV amp is rated 110 watts and while it is not and apple-to-apples comparison (I use it in different room etc), I can't say that the Yamaha somehow gets more out of these speakers purely because it has more power. My B&W's does respond to even higher qualities of amplification but I needed to spend somewhat more money to get marginally better sound. It also definately does not suffer from the 'early volume gain' many amplifiers use to create an impression of power (see earlier thread on this forum). I routinely use it at -40 to -20 dB (60-80% of volume diall). Many reviews state only single analog input as a downside, but infact it has 2 analog inputs with plenty of digital connection options.

Apparently any amp should only be 'a straight wire with gain', but the D3020 does sound somewhat distinctive to my ears ('forward leaning' soundstage and dry punchy bass). Maybe with the 'right' music at crazy volumes it will perhaps run out of juice, but I'll have hearing damage at those volumes anyway... The D3020's main advantage to me is that it does quite well with even relatively poor sources (my iTunes downloads) because of the asymmetrical USB and Cirrus DAC. This is it's USP to me. Because of the heat generation, the jury is still out on it's longterm reliability however.

That being said, only you can decide if it is a worthwhile upgrade - Just don't be categorically put off by its on paper power rating. Try a home demo and decide...

 

[dellroy]

Thanks for the replys folks. Reading the different opinions has been very helpful.

I think I will wait and save for a better amp/dac upgrade in the future. While the 3020 may well give me an initial upgrade I dont think it will be a BIG enough step up.

For now I am going to look at the Dacmagic 100 and Musical Fidelity V90 dac as an upgrade for my digital music.

 

[Vladimir]

Switch mode power supply + Class D + small plastic case + substandard electronic parts used + 30Wpc in 4ohms = cheap desktop amp I don't want to own.
Imagine how much I would go for an expensive yet cheaply made desktop amp.
The original 3020 was also rubbish but at least it had real 30Wpc in 8ohms, linear power supply and a cheap price tag.

 

[Cypher]

Vladimir,

The NAD D3020 is 30 watts @ 8 ohm, not 4 ohm.

A german magazine measured the power and said it delivered more than 50 watts @ 8 ohm in reality. So it isn't exactly powerless and just as powerful as most budget amps.

 

[davedotco]

It depends at what THD and if its 1kHz or 20Hz-20kHz, one or both channels driven, for how long (miliseconds or 10min). I'm reading the spec on the manufacturer website, expressed as 30Wpc at 4 ohms, 0.005% THD. Those budget amps that are 50Wpc RMS continuos at 8ohms, both channels driven, 20Hz-20kHz at <0.5% THD, are well beyond the capabilities of this desktop amp. Measurements at 1kHz, 4ohms, single channel driven for no more than 20ms at 1%THD are quite deceitful representation of amplifier abilities.

You're really not sure about that amp are you Vlad?

Get off the fence and tell us what you really think........*help*

 

[Vladimir]

It depends at what THD and if its 1kHz or 20Hz-20kHz, one or both channels driven, for how long (miliseconds or 10min).
I'm reading the spec on the manufacturer website, expressed as 30Wpc at 4 ohms,
0.005% THD.
Those budget amps that are 50Wpc RMS continuos at 8ohms, both channels driven, 20Hz-20kHz at