Is it just me? But Technics 300eur CDP is better than Naim CD5x

[admin_exported]

Hi everyone!

I have recently bought a brand new Naim CD5X and I spent one whole day comparing it to my 10 years old Technics CD player which was about 300 eur. I kept on switching Naim/Technics/Naim/Technics at the same part of the song on two indentical CDs. There was NO DIFFERENCE in reproduction of these CDP!! Is it just a BIG fraud or are my ears deceiving? Is it because it still isn's run in because I got it 3 days ago.

I only hope that it will do better job after a while and after adding additional power supply (Flat Cap 2x).

My amp is Nait XS which is excellent compairing it to my old amp.

 

[ear]

quite possible.technics was a great brand.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, but CD5x is 2000eur worth and is rated as a high quality CDP! Not to mention a synergy with Nait XS!

 

[idc]

At 2000eur against 300eur, Naim against Technics, I would expect to hear an immediate difference. Don't be fobbed off by 'it will run in'. That is like buying shoes that don't fit to be told 'they will stretch'. Get a friend to listen, make sure all is connected properly and if you still cannot hear a difference hopefully you can get your money back.

 

[lordmortlock]

And if you really can't hear any difference and can get your money back well done... you saved a lot of money!

 

[Anonymous]

chebby:

I only very recently heard an XS with the CD5x (via Rega RS1 and RS3 speakers) and the combination was cosmic! (It haunts me.)

I had to settle for humbler fare for now, alas.

I assume you have them connected with the supplied Naim DIN connection and have selected the 'DIN only' option via the remote. (Should display 'O' for DIN only and 'oo' for RCA and 'O oo' for DIN + RCA. At least on my 5i stuff. Check your instructions in case your units differ.)

My stuff sounded great as soon as I got it home but both amp and CD player were ex-dem models so had some 'mileage' already. (And I only had the Arcam Solo-Mini before that which had a pretty lacklustre CD73 derived CD player section so comparison was a moot point.)

Give it at least a few more days. I was advised that (if from brand-new) it would sound gradually better then worse then eventually brilliant throughout the first few weeks. (I am highly sceptical of run-in for anything other than speakers and cartridges but broadly speaking the dealer was right!)

Thanks Chebby! That gave me a little more faith!

I also think it will be better after a while, at least better than the old CDP. But now I think Flat Cap is a "must have" now. Will update the change if there is any in a few weeks.

 

[Anonymous]

Well apparently Naim (like most brands) stuff is known for taking an age to get up to ideal performance, but at the end of the day its all just opinions. Whilst these forums can sometimes make certain points of view sound as though they were given from upon high, it really is just a matter of taste. Since you just got it, I would give it a little while longer before making any drastic decisions, but if you feel there is no difference it doesn't matter how good the CDP is meant to be, its likely not worth it to you and you've just saved yourself a great deal of money whichÿamongstÿother things can potentially be put towards another area of your system that will yield a dramatic improvement to your ears.ÿ

 

[manicm]

Have to say, had an old Technics CDP, was one of the best things I ever had, sounded way better than other Japanese players.

 

[Anonymous]

Naim always suggested to invest more on source components. I followed their thought and I really hope that you guys are right and this source of mine will do the job better than the Technics after some workout (running in) and steroids (Flat Cap 2x).

 

[idc]

I am just not with this one at all. In a forum hosted by a magazine where the differences between HDMI cables and types of stand can be described as being noticeable and significant and night and day, why is the difference, or lack of it, between two CDPs which are by age and price, poles apart, not the cause of an outcry? Was the Technics a wonder CDP? Is the Naim CDP the weak one in the range? If it were me I would be furious that such an upgrade had not made an obvious and immediate difference. Or have I got this completely wrong?

 

[Anonymous]

What speakers was the OP using to compare the 2 CDPs? Might those be holding back the Naim I wonder?

 

[Anonymous]

I think IMHO, that what really matters in a HIFI kit are Speakers and amplification (including the pre-section). I mean that medium class CD () players deliver a sound quality that the more expensive ones can only improve slightly. An depending on the kind of music you listen they're going to deliver more or less the same sonic experience.

Maybe the much more expensive ones do make a difference when playing classical with a proper rest of the kit....

So it's maybe true that the 300? CDP is performing as good as the 2000? one to you're ears.

 

[idc]

I am just surprised that there is an acceptance that the two CDPs may not be that different, especially since other minute differences can result in fearce forum debates (those HDMI cables again!).

It also makes me think that using an ipod as a source is a very reasonable option.

It also makes me think that in the end the quality of the DAC is the most important part. The disc spinning is not that important.

Is it a case that the Technic's DAC is as good as the Naims?

 

[Anonymous]

To make something clear: I didn't ment to say that I didn't like the CD5x. It sounds beautifully! I really like the high frequency sound and the timing and explosivness of all the details. But when compared to a low budget Technics the effect is pretty much the same. I will try the same test tomorrow and in a week or two and sent some more comments. But I think that Smo may be right. Amp and speakers may be the most important elements in one's system. So, all the beautifull music comming are to thank Nait XS and Pro Ac Studio 110!

I know how to tell the difference between certain equipment, I tried connecting some old equiliser to the amp and the sound was awfull, harsh... The same thing happened when testing old Technics speakers; 128 kbps and lossless...

But the comparison of two CDP... hmmm.

The CD5x is staying, that is for sure. Since I like the overall sound of the system I won't change my mind. I will deffinitely demo the flatcap, Chebby. Thanks!

 

[Alec]

idc:

I am just surprised that there is an acceptance that the two CDPs may not be that different, especially since other minute differences can result in fearce forum debates (those HDMI cables again!).

Funny innit. I'll let you decide which "funny" im going for.

 

[the record spot]

mcd0234:Well apparently Naim (like most brands) stuff is known for taking an age to get up to ideal performance, but at the end of the day its all just opinions. Whilst these forums can sometimes make certain points of view sound as though they were given from upon high, it really is just a matter of taste. Since you just got it, I would give it a little while longer before making any drastic decisions, but if you feel there is no difference it doesn't matter how good the CDP is meant to be, its likely not worth it to you and you've just saved yourself a great deal of money whichÿamongstÿother things can potentially be put towards another area of your system that will yield a dramatic improvement to your ears.

Very true; I've listened to a number of amps of late - used rather than new admittedly, but the point is the same - and find more and more that if you find a synergy between the kit that works well, then go with that.

If that means your amp is a third of the price of the CD and speakers and the partnership is good, so be it.

 

[manicm]

That's another bone - DACs. Ken Ishiwata might have changed his tune now - not sure - but not so far back he made a statement that the supposed lowly 16 bit DAC is not necessarily inferior to higher bit ones. He claimed the implementation and quality of the other components of a CDP were equally important - and of-course this will increase cost.

Indeed some of his one-off specials had 16 bit DACs. But of-course technology has progressed and one cannot make any blanket statements here.

 

[jaxwired]

idc:

I am just surprised that there is an acceptance that the two CDPs may not be that different...

Let's look at this logically. Forgetting about the box and exterior of the unit, is it possible to cheaply manufacture a CDP using identical parts to the Naim unit for 300eur and still make a profit? I suspect (but don't really know for sure) the answer is probably yes. So this is not all that surprising. Many high end products cannot justify their prices based on component costs. This becomes more true the further up the high end chain you climb.

 

[bretty]

I think the old Technics stuff was brilliant, so maybe there isn't much between it and the Naim.

I recently heard an old technics integrated amp. It was 'Class AA', and it was absolutely beautiful sounding. I had a chat with the dealer about it. He said a lot to say about it, which all went over my head, but I remember him saying that something in the amp was made from bamboo. Yes, bamboo!

Anyway, point being, it was £135 second-hand, but sounded like it cost a hell of a lot more!

 

[Frank Harvey]

As Chebby states, we all hear things differently, and what we prefer isn't necessarily the more expensive option. Synergy plays a part, so does the room, so does the type of music being listened to.

I can understand when people say CD players sound the same - there's not the night and day differences between them like there is turntables, speakers, amplifiers etc. I've found the differences are affected by all thos above, and many times when comparisons are made, the system isn't up to revealing those differences, so they seem diminished.

Naim put a hell of a lot of work into their CD players. All components are matched, so instead of +/- 10% difference in channel components, Naim bring this down to a couple of percent. This takes time to match them, and obviously adds to the cost. This isn't something that's done with CD players like the Technics. They just use boxes of bulk bought components. Don't get me wrong, the Technics CD players were very good in their day, and were very reliable, and their ability to read and play scratched discs were second to none. But let's not fool ourselves into thinking that there is no difference between these players. There is. Hearing them both through a Naim system would highlight this. Quick A/B's are not the best thing with CD players - spending a little time with them is.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Technics CD players were excellent and even now those old machines are good. I sold plenty of them.

They were built well, well featured, easy to use, had a detailed and balanced presentation that could be enjoyed for hours without fatigue, superb value for money (that could punch well above their price) and best of all were reliable.

I would be more than happy to own and would rather have an old Technics cdp than a number a machines in production today.

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

jaxwired:idc:
I am just surprised that there is an acceptance that the two CDPs may not be that different...

Let's look at this logically.ÿ Forgetting about the box and exterior of the unit, is it possible to cheaply manufacture a CDP using identical parts to the Naim unit for 300eur and still make a profit?ÿ I suspect (but don't really know for sure) the answer is probably yes.ÿ So this is not all that surprising.ÿ Many high end products cannot justify their prices based on component costs.ÿ This becomes more true the further up the high end chain you climb.

ÿNot if you factor in design, component selection and matching, and tuning. I'm also not sure if high-end manufacturers do justify their prices on component costs. They'd certainly select commensurate quality, though.ÿ

 

[Frank Harvey]

Another thing to mention is that both of those manufacturers/players use/used different D to A convertors.

 

[idc]

BrandoBg:

I kept on switching Naim/Technics/Naim/Technics at the same part of the song on two indentical CDs. There was NO DIFFERENCE in reproduction of these CDP!!

This is the bit that surprised me, really surprised me. I would have expected the difference to be clear and obvious. My big CDP audition was between an Arcam Alpha 7 and equivalent in price from Marantz and a cheaper (award winning) one from Sony. The difference was obvious.

BrandoBg:

Is it because it still isn's run in because I got it 3 days ago.

This is the bit that had me wanting to contribute to the post. It seems extreme to wait until the Naim has 'run in' as I fear that that only means 'got used to it'. Just like buying new shoes that give you blisters, but if you wear them enough your feet will toughen up and the shoe will mould its self to fit a bit better. No, the shoes don't fit, send them back! No the Naim does not sound different, send it back!

BrandoBg:

I only hope that it will do better job after a while and after adding additional power supply (Flat Cap 2x).

This part sounds like throwing good money after bad. It is like buying little pads to put inside the shoes that don't fit so they don't rub so much.

I would be happy that my system was a Technics CDP with your Naim amp and whatever your other kit is and use the money for something else, a nice DAC perhaps. I had a system which was was not split at all equally in price, but the synergy was there, so for about 7 years I didn't do a thing. I even lost interest in hifi as a hobby!

 

[Anonymous]

idc:ÿNo the Naim does not sound different, send it back!ÿ

I demoed a £1,200 Cyrus CD8SE at home against my £200 DACMagic. ÿEven though they sound "different", I cannot decide which is "better", so the CDP went back to the dealer after a weekend's testing. ÿA friend has a £900 Cyrus CD6SE and he brought it round to compare it against the DACMagic, neither of us could tell which is which, he was not happy! ÿI am surprised the OP is keeping that expensive CDP and planning to spend another £500 or more on a Naim power supply (which will only make a marginal difference if they are anything like the a dedicated Cyrus power supply). ÿ