is bi-amping an upgrade?

[xtsili]

Hi

If I add another AS 700 to my wharfedales resulting to a bi-amped configuration will I achieve a value for money upgrade?

 

[Big Chris]

It was when I did it. A big leap in performance.

Can't speak for your electronics though.

 

[cheyworth]

the AS 700 is an integrated amp, so would be very difficult to use two together.

better going for a power amp.

 

[Big Chris]

cheyworth:

the AS 700 is an integrated amp, so would be very difficult to use two together.

better going for a power amp.

I don't know if Yamaha do a power amp, but my A85 (a design arround 10 years old), has a facility where it can be used as either an integrated, a pre or a power amp. Perhaps Yamaha has incorporated the same feature.

 

[xtsili]

cheyworth:
the AS 700 is an integrated amp, so would be very difficult to use two together.

better going for a power amp.

According to the manual of my speakers it's a no brainer. You simply use the 1st amp for high frequencies and the 2nd one for the low ones.

 

[xtsili]

Big Chris:cheyworth:
the AS 700 is an integrated amp, so would be very difficult to use two together.

better going for a power amp.

I don't know if Yamaha do a power amp, but my A85 (a design arround 10 years old), has a facility where it can be used as either an integrated, a pre or a power amp. Perhaps Yamaha has incorporated the same feature.



I don't think the AS700 has such a facility.

 

[The_Lhc]

I think what Chey meant was with two integrated amps you'll have two volume controls and two input selectors etc etc. A power amp just sits there dumb and takes whatever you give it from the integrated amp.

 

[xtsili]

Big Chris:
It was when I did it. A big leap in performance.

Can't speak for your electronics though.

Well, isn't by principle that bi-amping offers benefits? Any potential improvement is electronics-dependant?

 

[Big Chris]

xtsili:cheyworth:

the AS 700 is an integrated amp, so would be very difficult to use two together.

better going for a power amp.

Accorrding to the manual of my speakers it is a no brainer. You simply use the 1st amp for high frequenceis and the 2nd one for the low.

What Cheyworth means is, as your existing Yamaha already acts as a pre-amp (volume control, input selection, etc), you don't need another amp with these on it. You just need the power section to drive the speakers.

Running 2 integrated amps may be possible, but you've got the hassle of matching the volumes between tweeters and woofers, if the Yamaha doesn't have a pre-amp bypass such as I mentioned in my earlier post.

EDIT: the_lhc beat me to it.

 

[Andrew Everard]

More to the point, IIRC the A-S700 doesn't have preouts, so connecting up is going to be messy at best, and you're going to find yourself juggling two sets of volume controls.

 

[xtsili]

the_lhc:I think what Chey meant was with two integrated amps you'll have two volume controls and two input selectors etc etc. A power amp just sits there dumb and takes whatever you give it from the integrated amp.

Correct! BUT! Since the two integrateds are identical I can use the remote of either one to control both. Right?

Besides, my ASUS has a pair of RCA outputs to connect the 1st one and a tosslink to connect my dac to connect the 2nd one. Right?

 

[xtsili]

and let me clarify that this solution came to my mind as I realized that the Yamaha cannot control adequately the speakers in high volumes. This was the case in my party last Suterday - see related post from yesterday.

So biamping seems to be a practical solution as helps avoiding selling the existing setup - which let's be honest can't fetch a good deal of money - and at the expense of 480 euros it will set potentially the system to a figher standard.

 

[The_Lhc]

xtsili:
the_lhc:I think what Chey meant was with two integrated amps you'll have two volume controls and two input selectors etc etc. A power amp just sits there dumb and takes whatever you give it from the integrated amp.

Correct! BUT! Since the two integrateds are identical I can use the remote of either one to control both. Right?

Besides, my ASUS has a pair of RCA outputs to connect the 1st one and a tosslink to connect my dac to connect the 2nd one. Right?

I suspect you'll run into timing issues if you try to do that, the two signal paths probably won't be in sync.

It's looking like a non-starter with your current amp to be honest.

 

[The_Lhc]

Big Chris:the_lhc beat me to it.

Yeah but you said it with authority, I'm just winging it hoping nobody notices I don't really know what I'm talking about!

 

[Big Chris]

I dunno. I liked the "...sits there dumb" stuff.

 

[xtsili]

the_lhc:xtsili:
the_lhc:I think what Chey meant was with two integrated amps you'll have two volume controls and two input selectors etc etc. A power amp just sits there dumb and takes whatever you give it from the integrated amp.

Correct! BUT! Since the two integrateds are identical I can use the remote of either one to control both. Right?

Besides, my ASUS has a pair of RCA outputs to connect the 1st one and a tosslink to connect my dac to connect the 2nd one. Right?

I suspect you'll run into timing issues if you try to do that, the two signal paths probably won't be in sync.It's looking like a non-starter with your current amp to be honest.

So you think this will be a problem. is there such a device as an RCA splitter to 2 pair of RCAs?

 

[Andrew Everard]

Yes, but again the results may not be what you hope or expect.

 

[xtsili]

Andrew Everard:Yes, but again the results may not be what you hope or expect.

Thanks anyway Andrew - and the rest of the folks

 

[Anonymous]

If it's for the occasional party. What about getting a cheap second pair of speakers the just adding to the system when needed. You could the use the A+B feature to get a better spread of sound through the room.

 

[Andrew Everard]

I think that kinda misses the point.

 

[Anonymous]

Passive biamping cannot and does not give any benefit whatsoever, unless the amps you use are different and have different gains which will affect the overall balance of mid/bass/treble which is missing the point. Its another myth perpetuated to extract more money from people. Similar to biwring. Bigger gains can be had spending the money on sources or speakers.

The only way it can make a different is if you use an active crossover, which means speaker surgery to remove the existing one.

Read this for the more detailed reasons:

Or rather don't, as it contravenes House Rules - Mods

Note the difference between active and passive bi-amping and that the benefits of bi-amping described are for ACTIVE biamping only.

 

[Anonymous]

EDITED BY MODS - please do not discuss moderation

 

[Gusboll]

Don't question the mods on the forum; you need to contact them by e-mail otherwise it will result in a ban - I know!

 

[Anonymous]

EDITED BY MODS - please do not discuss moderation, or reproduce copyright material on the Forums. Final warning.

 

[Anonymous]

OK Ill put it in my own words:

Basically for a linear system, which applies to a high degree to amps
and cables at audible frequencies, then bi-wiring and passive
bi-amping cannot make a difference (superposition principle). If you want to get into the physics
feel free

Passive biamping and biwiring fall into the same category.

Active biamping, using external crossovers can and will give some benefit but there may be more cost effective ways of getting a bigger leap in performance than doing this.

This is science, not hifi myth