Interconnect

[TrevC]

And I will notice no difference between those cheap ones and my handmade variable thickness wire (solid silver) LFD manufacture..is that what your proposing?

These interconnects aren't ordinary cables....do do do do do do, j'taime....they're M&S handmade, variable thickness wire (solid silver) LFD interconnects

Sorry, couldn't resist. How much would cables like this cost?

mine is a prototype it's very thick! And not very bendy! Look it up if you want..lfd interconnects my one is top of the range..

I think LFD use solid core conductors hence the stiffness. The more you pay the more conductors are there.

The more you pay the more of a mug you are.

 

[keeper of the quays]

The top of the range LFD interconnect is the Diamond Viper II at £6,000. That's 12,000 ha'peths of tar, or about 20m of residential street.

and a £20 interconnect is going to sound the same between my power amp and my pre amp?

 

[TrevC]

The top of the range LFD interconnect is the Diamond Viper II at £6,000. That's 12,000 ha'peths of tar, or about 20m of residential street.

and a £20 interconnect is going to sound the same between my power amp and my pre amp?

Yep.

 

[keeper of the quays]

..wide range equipment reveals this..your taken into the music..by using coat hangers and bell wire and freebie rubbish interconnects your missing so much in the music..yes you can hear the music on your held back hifi but your not taken on a musical journey? Your waiting for a bus that never arrives.

So, my 12 year old Krell power amplifier is full of dust - I thought this would be a good opportunity to blow the dust out and have a look at what £5500 back in 2004 had bought me. Frankly, I was shocked. Instead of the internal audio interconnects being made from pure gold, insulated with woven hair plucked from the bum of a unicorn, they had used computer grade ribbon cable. RIBBON CABLE!

I couldn't believe it.   

Didn't they understand timing??  What about richness?? It must be leaking out all over the inside of my amplifer.

Alternatively, perhaps the engineer who designed the amp hadn't read forums like this about interconnects, had applied good engineering principles, and had concluded that ribbon cable was an excellent solution for his requirements.

I appreciate not everyone has a technical background, but how about applying some common sense.  Look inside that fancy amp you own.  What has the designer used?  Interconnect costing £££? or normal hookup cable.  The laws of physics don't change as soon as the connection leaves the amp.   

 

if your tired of your krell amp? I'll swop my roksan Kandy amp and cd player? No ribbon things in them I think?

 

[keeper of the quays]

The top of the range LFD interconnect is the Diamond Viper II at £6,000. That's 12,000 ha'peths of tar, or about 20m of residential street.

and a £20 interconnect is going to sound the same between my power amp and my pre amp?

Yep. 

come and listen? Just take those cloths out of your ears first please...i let idiots in my house..so you are welcome..ill bake a cake..gluten free..

 

[chebby]

if your tired of your krell amp? I'll swop my roksan Kandy amp and cd player? No ribbon things in them I think?

Of course there is! Just google images of it...

http://cdn.stereophile.com/images/1114roksan.inside.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OJ26AFZh0po/hqdefault.jpg

... many more Kandy amp pictures (Mk1, Mk2, MK3) all showing the ribbon cables.

 

[TrevC]

The top of the range LFD interconnect is the Diamond Viper II at £6,000. That's 12,000 ha'peths of tar, or about 20m of residential street.

and a £20 interconnect is going to sound the same between my power amp and my pre amp?

Yep.

come and listen? Just take those cloths out of your ears first please...i let idiots in my house..so you are welcome..ill bake a cake..gluten free..

Take the cloth out of your brain.

 

[TomSawyer]

The top of the range LFD interconnect is the Diamond Viper II at £6,000. That's 12,000 ha'peths of tar, or about 20m of residential street.

and a £20 interconnect is going to sound the same between my power amp and my pre amp?

As already stated, I'm cable agnostic so I'm not sure, but I'm also an engineer so I'm persuaded by technical argument, experiment, controlled test etc.

I'm struggling to see that it's worth spending £6k to join two boxes together that cost £3.5k (apologies if I've got that wrong, I think that's what you said).

Even if you swapped the numbers it would still seem ludicrous but significantly less so.

 

[BigH]

But only true believers can hear a difference.

Thats why they don't like blind tests because then they see which is which and don't know what to believe.

 

[davedotco]

..wide range equipment reveals this..your taken into the music..by using coat hangers and bell wire and freebie rubbish interconnects your missing so much in the music..yes you can hear the music on your held back hifi but your not taken on a musical journey? Your waiting for a bus that never arrives.

So, my 12 year old Krell power amplifier is full of dust - I thought this would be a good opportunity to blow the dust out and have a look at what £5500 back in 2004 had bought me. Frankly, I was shocked. Instead of the internal audio interconnects being made from pure gold, insulated with woven hair plucked from the bum of a unicorn, they had used computer grade ribbon cable. RIBBON CABLE!

I couldn't believe it.

Didn't they understand timing?? What about richness?? It must be leaking out all over the inside of my amplifer.

Alternatively, perhaps the engineer who designed the amp hadn't read forums like this about interconnects, had applied good engineering principles, and had concluded that ribbon cable was an excellent solution for his requirements.

I appreciate not everyone has a technical background, but how about applying some common sense. Look inside that fancy amp you own. What has the designer used? Interconnect costing £££? or normal hookup cable. The laws of physics don't change as soon as the connection leaves the amp.

my amp is a quad 909 and my friends amp where I first heard this was a naim amp...i trust my ears not others opinions..i just shared my view on a piece of music I listened to..the point I was making is poor quality cables and interconnects hamper the sound! If you used a quality interconnect on your krell amp it will sound much better than using a freebie one? Regardless of your view of it's construction..

Keeper, I am an old dude, and I have been at this game a while. While it is easy to claim all sorts of things on the net, I do have an educational background in this stuff, and did design equipment for a well known broadcaster when I graduated (albeit a few decades ago).

People love to tinker. Enthusiasts love to tinker more. When I was starting out, mags like 'everday electronics' and 'wireless world' were full of mods and tricks that enthusiastic owners could apply to their equipment. The equipment was accessible, and real improvements could be made by a keen owner with a soldering iron. These days, a board covered in surface mount components so small you can barely see them, and most of the real work done by software has locked owners out of 'modding' their equipment.

But enthusiasts still want to tinker - so they tinker with the only thing they can - the wiring. The same is true in other fields. Car enthusiast are reduced to fitting 'induction kits' (changing the air filter arrangements) and brightly coloured shock absorbers to modify their cars, computer enthusiasts fit plumbing and radiators to their computers. It is the same desire to personalise and customise - but the technology has moved beyond the capability of the owners to modify.

So as an enthusiast, I understand the never ending threads about wiring - as an (ex) engineer, I despair slightly at the belief that two perfectly good, properly specified pieces of wire could possibly alter an audio signal sufficiently to be audible.

I take your point...no disrespect old timer! Lol..are you telling me to use a £20 pair of interconnects between my quad power amp and my musical fidelity pre amp? And I will notice no difference between those cheap ones and my handmade variable thickness wire (solid silver) LFD manufacture..is that what your proposing?

Providing that your LFD cables are not deliberately designed to change the signal (I am not familiar with them) then a pair of (say) terminated Van Damme interconnects, costing £18 + shipping will sound exactly the same.

This is precisely what is being said, compedent, well made interconnects will sound the same providing they have not been deliberately engineered to sound different.

with respect? You are a peddler of twaddle..i would suggest you and your mate..he can carry the pots and pans..go and sell pots and pans door to door! You may be able convince bored housewives that your knowledge of pots and pans and coat hangers is second to none..but your twaddle convinces me not! A £20 interconnect between three and half thousand pounds of equipment? Hahahaha..your funny! You and your mate should do a double act! Hang on..thats what your doing already! Lol..you spout some nonsense..you are then quite rightly held to account..you become pompous and your pet poodle leaps to your defence and starts yapping! Hahahaha..its very funny!

I get it, you are on one of your periodic wind ups. Not as funny as some, but not bad.

Keep it up...*i-m_so_happy*

 

[ellisdj]

Back to this from before - who can demo a reference quality sound from all cheap cables - for another forum member to hear and validate ?? Who is that confident

I'm confident you will fail any interconnect blind test, for one reason. There are no differences to be heard. You can prove it yourself with a mono source and a null test, far more accurate than using your ears.

Doesnt mean you can make a system sound good with them TrevC now does it otherwise you would be offering to prove so - so really you have no confidence in being able to prove anything you say.

Its one thing quoting science and blind tests - that is a l cods wallop, thats not what were here for or what we do everyday - its about the end product only its about making a system come alive and dissapear at the same time.

Who can show me this using all cheap freeby interconnects and Speaker cables ? Preferably South of Birmingham.

 

[Electro]

Back to this from before - who can demo a reference quality sound from all cheap cables - for another forum member to hear and validate ?? Who is that confident

Me *i-m_so_happy*

Do you live in Rainham Essex or Kent ?

I am in South Ockendon Essex .

I must admint that I do still have a couple of kimber XLR cables connected but only because I would get very little for them on Ebay I could replace these with some cheaper cables if you think it will make a difference.

I sold the rest of my expensive cables and managed to get most of my money back on them because I bought them all s/hand, I put over £2000 back in the bank !

I now use a mixture of Van Damme , Maplin, and Rean cables and to be honest I think it might just sound a little bit better. *smile*

 

[TomSawyer]

Back to this from before - who can demo a reference quality sound from all cheap cables - for another forum member to hear and validate ?? Who is that confident

Me *i-m_so_happy*

This is getting exciting - is that a gauntlet I see being thrown down?

 

[ellisdj]

Me *i-m_so_happy*

Do you live in Rainham Essex or Kent ?

I am in South Ockendon Essex .

I must admint that I do still have a couple of kimber XLR cables connected but only because I would get very little for them on Ebay I could replace these with some cheaper cables if you think it will make a difference.

I sold the rest of my expensive cables and managed to get most of my money back on them because I bought them all s/hand, I put over £2000 back in the bank !

I now use a mixture of Van Damme , Maplin, and Rean cables and to be honest I think it might just sound a little bit better. *smile*

Perfect I am in Rainham Essex mate so thats ideal - you show me yours then I will show you mine

 

[ellisdj]

Wonderful email sent.

I am going to think of a few albums to torture test your setup if ok please do the same. Nothing sinister like manson or thrash metal lol

I have a few in mind but want to think of a few good ones for bass and timing and harshness. Also imaging and treble clarity and organic character that's the hardest one

You have much better gear than me by the looks of it in much more space.
If nothing else I would really like to hear your system so that will be a treat in itself.

But technically it's the perfect test - if ok I will bring a couple of cables to try to see if you hear a difference. That will be a good test I think

 

[CnoEvil]

Wonderful email sent.

I am going to think of a few albums to torture test your setup if ok please do the same. Nothing sinister like manson or thrash metal lol

I have a few in mind but want to think of a few good ones for bass and timing and harshness. Also imaging and treble clarity and organic character that's the hardest one

You have much better gear than me by the looks of it in much more space.
If nothing else I would really like to hear your system so that will be a treat in itself.

But technically it's the perfect test - if ok I will bring a couple of cables to try to see if you hear a difference. That will be a good test I think

Go get 'em Ellis....you are now carrying the torch for the Darkside! *biggrin*

 

[ellisdj]

We all know the power of the dark side now dont we

 

[keeper of the quays]

if your tired of your krell amp? I'll swop my roksan Kandy amp and cd player? No ribbon things in them I think?

Of course there is!  Just google images of it...

http://cdn.stereophile.com/images/1114roksan.inside.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OJ26AFZh0po/hqdefault.jpg

... many more Kandy amp pictures (Mk1, Mk2, MK3) all showing the ribbon cables.

I'll chuck in a pair of dynaudio speakers too! To own a krell would be the coolest...ever!

 

[keeper of the quays]

..wide range equipment reveals this..your taken into the music..by using coat hangers and bell wire and freebie rubbish interconnects your missing so much in the music..yes you can hear the music on your held back hifi but your not taken on a musical journey? Your waiting for a bus that never arrives.

So, my 12 year old Krell power amplifier is full of dust - I thought this would be a good opportunity to blow the dust out and have a look at what £5500 back in 2004 had bought me. Frankly, I was shocked. Instead of the internal audio interconnects being made from pure gold, insulated with woven hair plucked from the bum of a unicorn, they had used computer grade ribbon cable. RIBBON CABLE!

I couldn't believe it.   

Didn't they understand timing??  What about richness?? It must be leaking out all over the inside of my amplifer.

Alternatively, perhaps the engineer who designed the amp hadn't read forums like this about interconnects, had applied good engineering principles, and had concluded that ribbon cable was an excellent solution for his requirements.

I appreciate not everyone has a technical background, but how about applying some common sense.  Look inside that fancy amp you own.  What has the designer used?  Interconnect costing £££? or normal hookup cable.  The laws of physics don't change as soon as the connection leaves the amp.   

 

my amp is a quad 909 and my friends amp where I first heard this was a naim amp...i trust my ears not others opinions..i just shared my view on a piece of music I listened to..the point I was making is poor quality cables and interconnects hamper the sound! If you used a quality interconnect on your krell amp it will sound much better than using a freebie one? Regardless of your view of it's construction..

Keeper, I am an old dude, and I have been at this game a while. While it is easy to claim all sorts of things on the net, I do have an educational background in this stuff, and did design equipment for a well known broadcaster when I graduated (albeit a few decades ago). 

People love to tinker.  Enthusiasts love to tinker more.  When I was starting out, mags like 'everday electronics' and 'wireless world' were full of mods and tricks that enthusiastic owners could apply to their equipment.  The equipment was accessible, and real improvements could be made by a keen owner with a soldering iron.  These days, a board covered in surface mount components so small you can barely see them, and most of the real work done by software has locked owners out of 'modding' their equipment.

But enthusiasts still want to tinker - so they tinker with the only thing they can - the wiring.  The same is true in other fields.  Car enthusiast are reduced to fitting 'induction kits' (changing the air filter arrangements) and brightly coloured shock absorbers to modify their cars, computer enthusiasts fit plumbing and radiators to their computers.  It is the same desire to personalise and customise - but the technology has moved beyond the capability of the owners to modify.

So as an enthusiast, I understand the never ending threads about wiring - as an (ex) engineer, I  despair slightly at the belief that two perfectly good, properly specified pieces of wire could possibly alter an audio signal sufficiently to be audible. 

I take your point...no disrespect old timer! Lol..are you telling me to use a £20 pair of interconnects between my quad power amp and my musical fidelity pre amp? And I will notice no difference between those cheap ones and my handmade variable thickness wire (solid silver) LFD manufacture..is that what your proposing?

Providing that your LFD cables are not deliberately designed to change the signal (I am not familiar with them) then a pair of (say) terminated Van Damme interconnects, costing £18 + shipping will sound exactly the same.

This is precisely what is being said, compedent, well made interconnects will sound the same providing they have not been deliberately engineered to sound different.

 

with respect? You are a peddler of twaddle..i would suggest you and your mate..he can carry the pots and pans..go and sell pots and pans door to door! You may be able convince bored housewives that your knowledge of pots and pans and coat hangers is second to none..but your twaddle convinces me not! A £20 interconnect between three and half thousand pounds of equipment? Hahahaha..your funny! You and your mate should do a double act! Hang on..thats what your doing already! Lol..you spout some nonsense..you are then quite rightly held to account..you become pompous and your pet poodle leaps to your defence and starts yapping! Hahahaha..its very funny!

I get it, you are on one of your periodic wind ups. Not as funny as some, but not bad.

Keep it up...*i-m_so_happy*

not as funny? Cheek! I'm funny even when I'm not trying to be..it's nothing personal..most of your utterances are interesting...its the coat hangers? Grrrrr lol

 

[Electro]

Me *i-m_so_happy*

Do you live in Rainham Essex or Kent ?

I am in South Ockendon Essex .

I must admint that I do still have a couple of kimber XLR cables connected but only because I would get very little for them on Ebay I could replace these with some cheaper cables if you think it will make a difference.

I sold the rest of my expensive cables and managed to get most of my money back on them because I bought them all s/hand, I put over £2000 back in the bank !

I now use a mixture of Van Damme , Maplin, and Rean cables and to be honest I think it might just sound a little bit better. *smile*

Perfect I am in Rainham Essex mate so thats ideal - you show me yours then I will show you mine

Sounds like a plan *biggrin*

Look forward to talking to you.

 

[Electro]

Wonderful email sent.

I am going to think of a few albums to torture test your setup if ok please do the same. Nothing sinister like manson or thrash metal lol

I have a few in mind but want to think of a few good ones for bass and timing and harshness. Also imaging and treble clarity and organic character that's the hardest one

You have much better gear than me by the looks of it in much more space. If nothing else I would really like to hear your system so that will be a treat in itself.

But technically it's the perfect test - if ok I will bring a couple of cables to try to see if you hear a difference. That will be a good test I think

Message received and have replied *biggrin*

 

[keeper of the quays]

Wonderful email sent.

I am going to think of a few albums to torture test your setup if ok please do the same. Nothing sinister like manson or thrash metal lol

I have a few in mind but want to think of a few good ones for bass and timing and harshness. Also imaging and treble clarity and organic character that's the hardest one

You have much better gear than me by the looks of it in much more space. If nothing else I would really like to hear your system so that will be a treat in itself.

But technically it's the perfect test - if ok I will bring a couple of cables to try to see if you hear a difference. That will be a good test I think

Message received and have replied  *biggrin*

should be interesting? Wide range kit should show up the limitations of cheaper cables etc..i was under the impression that freebie stuff was the same as pricey stuff? Could someone chuck on some freebie rubbish cable too? Just so this nonsense can be shown to be true..could someone take Trev c as well? Yes I know a party pooper he may be? But check his ears for cloths first! Lol..at least he can hear Some decent stuff for a change!

 

[davedotco]

..wide range equipment reveals this..your taken into the music..by using coat hangers and bell wire and freebie rubbish interconnects your missing so much in the music..yes you can hear the music on your held back hifi but your not taken on a musical journey? Your waiting for a bus that never arrives.

So, my 12 year old Krell power amplifier is full of dust - I thought this would be a good opportunity to blow the dust out and have a look at what £5500 back in 2004 had bought me. Frankly, I was shocked. Instead of the internal audio interconnects being made from pure gold, insulated with woven hair plucked from the bum of a unicorn, they had used computer grade ribbon cable. RIBBON CABLE!

I couldn't believe it.

Didn't they understand timing?? What about richness?? It must be leaking out all over the inside of my amplifer.

Alternatively, perhaps the engineer who designed the amp hadn't read forums like this about interconnects, had applied good engineering principles, and had concluded that ribbon cable was an excellent solution for his requirements.

I appreciate not everyone has a technical background, but how about applying some common sense. Look inside that fancy amp you own. What has the designer used? Interconnect costing £££? or normal hookup cable. The laws of physics don't change as soon as the connection leaves the amp.

my amp is a quad 909 and my friends amp where I first heard this was a naim amp...i trust my ears not others opinions..i just shared my view on a piece of music I listened to..the point I was making is poor quality cables and interconnects hamper the sound! If you used a quality interconnect on your krell amp it will sound much better than using a freebie one? Regardless of your view of it's construction..

Keeper, I am an old dude, and I have been at this game a while. While it is easy to claim all sorts of things on the net, I do have an educational background in this stuff, and did design equipment for a well known broadcaster when I graduated (albeit a few decades ago).

People love to tinker. Enthusiasts love to tinker more. When I was starting out, mags like 'everday electronics' and 'wireless world' were full of mods and tricks that enthusiastic owners could apply to their equipment. The equipment was accessible, and real improvements could be made by a keen owner with a soldering iron. These days, a board covered in surface mount components so small you can barely see them, and most of the real work done by software has locked owners out of 'modding' their equipment.

But enthusiasts still want to tinker - so they tinker with the only thing they can - the wiring. The same is true in other fields. Car enthusiast are reduced to fitting 'induction kits' (changing the air filter arrangements) and brightly coloured shock absorbers to modify their cars, computer enthusiasts fit plumbing and radiators to their computers. It is the same desire to personalise and customise - but the technology has moved beyond the capability of the owners to modify.

So as an enthusiast, I understand the never ending threads about wiring - as an (ex) engineer, I despair slightly at the belief that two perfectly good, properly specified pieces of wire could possibly alter an audio signal sufficiently to be audible.

I take your point...no disrespect old timer! Lol..are you telling me to use a £20 pair of interconnects between my quad power amp and my musical fidelity pre amp? And I will notice no difference between those cheap ones and my handmade variable thickness wire (solid silver) LFD manufacture..is that what your proposing?

Providing that your LFD cables are not deliberately designed to change the signal (I am not familiar with them) then a pair of (say) terminated Van Damme interconnects, costing £18 + shipping will sound exactly the same.

This is precisely what is being said, compedent, well made interconnects will sound the same providing they have not been deliberately engineered to sound different.

with respect? You are a peddler of twaddle..i would suggest you and your mate..he can carry the pots and pans..go and sell pots and pans door to door! You may be able convince bored housewives that your knowledge of pots and pans and coat hangers is second to none..but your twaddle convinces me not! A £20 interconnect between three and half thousand pounds of equipment? Hahahaha..your funny! You and your mate should do a double act! Hang on..thats what your doing already! Lol..you spout some nonsense..you are then quite rightly held to account..you become pompous and your pet poodle leaps to your defence and starts yapping! Hahahaha..its very funny!

I get it, you are on one of your periodic wind ups. Not as funny as some, but not bad.

Keep it up...*i-m_so_happy*

not as funny? Cheek! I'm funny even when I'm not trying to be..it's nothing personal..most of your utterances are interesting...its the coat hangers? Grrrrr lol

Strangely I never brought up 'coat hangers', they were mentioned by someone else, I simply referenced the original, rather silly, comparison (in 2008) which was primarily designed to wind up MonsterCable who were making some ridiculous claims for their new cable at that time.

Cooker cable on the other hand is mine, 30 amp twin and earth gives 2 by 6 sqmm cores which makes a very decent speaker cable, at well under £1 per meter it is excellent value for money.

 

[davedotco]

Wonderful email sent.

I am going to think of a few albums to torture test your setup if ok please do the same. Nothing sinister like manson or thrash metal lol

I have a few in mind but want to think of a few good ones for bass and timing and harshness. Also imaging and treble clarity and organic character that's the hardest one

You have much better gear than me by the looks of it in much more space. If nothing else I would really like to hear your system so that will be a treat in itself.

But technically it's the perfect test - if ok I will bring a couple of cables to try to see if you hear a difference. That will be a good test I think

Message received and have replied *biggrin*

should be interesting? Wide range kit should show up the limitations of cheaper cables etc..i was under the impression that freebie stuff was the same as pricey stuff? Could someone chuck on some freebie rubbish cable too? Just so this nonsense can be shown to be true..could someone take Trev c as well? Yes I know a party pooper he may be? But check his ears for cloths first! Lol..at least he can hear Some decent stuff for a change!

And see if there is any way that you can set up the tests so that you are listening blind.

I would offer to set up and conduct the tests for you, proper third party conducted blind tests, not double blind but good enough in the circumstances.

Unfortunately I will not set foot in Essex under any circumstances, for sound sociological reasons.

 

[chebby]

Unfortunately I will not set foot in Essex under any circumstances, for sound sociological reasons.

It's the only way.