Interconnect

[TrevC]

Tell me if anyone thinks this a wrong approach

I heard platinums and really liked them. Heard other speakers still preferred the platinums.

Then set about taking every step possible to get the best sound I can from them in my room so far - still more to be done to improve it its not totally perfect. Integrated into an av system for one of the best home cinemas I have experienced also.

Learnt loads on the way heard lots of other systems in the process none overall I thought was better - some considerably better in ways but not overall better to me.

I am happy to share and show what I have done and let other ears critique it to validate my claims.

I think there will be a few surprised people, hopefully not me

Looks like one soon hopefully

Well, WHF could only say this meaningless drivel against them.

"We'd like greater dynamic bite and crisper timing"

 

[ellisdj]

I know what they mean by dynamic bite I have taken care of that.

Timing I have taken care of that as well, timing is spot on even with mega complex material like not my favourite music but I can appreciate all music Muse Drones.
See that sounds on your system TrevC here it's impressive even really loud

 

[keeper of the quays]

Tell me if anyone thinks this a wrong approach

I heard platinums and really liked them. Heard other speakers still preferred the platinums.

Then set about taking every step possible to get the best sound I can from them in my room so far - still more to be done to improve it its not totally perfect. Integrated into an av system for one of the best home cinemas I have experienced also.

Learnt loads on the way heard lots of other systems in the process none overall I thought was better - some considerably better in ways but not overall better to me.

I am happy to share and show what I have done and let other ears critique it to validate my claims.

I think there will be a few surprised people, hopefully not me

Looks like one soon hopefully

Well, WHF could only say this meaningless drivel against them. 

"We'd like greater dynamic bite and crisper timing"

if you had good equipment with decent interconnects and good cabling you would understand what they meant re dynamics and timing? Your admission of what hi fi has said just shows that your missing out on a lot of detail in music which is important as to understand it better and appreciate it more...i have a roksan Kandy amp going spare as well as it's sister cd player..your welcome to borrow it..I got some dynaudio speakers too! At least that will get you hearing what your missing? Sounds like a plan?

 

[TrevC]

if you had good equipment with decent interconnects and good cabling you would understand what they meant re dynamics and timing?

Dynamics and timing are a part of music and the way it's performed, hifi equipment can't affect either. There's nothing wrong with my equipment or wires.

 

[spiny norman]

Well, WHF could only say this meaningless drivel against them.

"We'd like greater dynamic bite and crisper timing"

So much hatred, and after they got you that lovely present

 

[ellisdj]

Tell me if anyone thinks this a wrong approach

I heard platinums and really liked them. Heard other speakers still preferred the platinums.

Then set about taking every step possible to get the best sound I can from them in my room so far - still more to be done to improve it its not totally perfect. Integrated into an av system for one of the best home cinemas I have experienced also.

Learnt loads on the way heard lots of other systems in the process none overall I thought was better - some considerably better in ways but not overall better to me.

I am happy to share and show what I have done and let other ears critique it to validate my claims.

I think there will be a few surprised people, hopefully not me

Looks like one soon hopefully

Well, WHF could only say this meaningless drivel against them. 

"We'd like greater dynamic bite and crisper timing"

if you had good equipment with decent interconnects and good cabling you would understand what they meant re dynamics and timing? Your admission of what hi fi has said just shows that your missing out on a lot of detail in music which is important as to understand it better and appreciate it more...i have a roksan Kandy amp going spare as well as it's sister cd player..your welcome to borrow it..I got some dynaudio speakers too! At least that will get you hearing what your missing? Sounds like a plan?

TrevC your welcome to come listen and see for yourself I think you would learn a thing or 2 despite being devout.

I unlike you do allow 1 idiot in at a time so I will wait outside while you are in the house.

EDIT bring the roksan cd player would like to compare.

I am seriously BTW come and see for yourself

DOUBLE EDIT - give me 3 - 5 albums you would like to hear I will buy them and rip them ready and we can directly compare to the Roksan using a cheap digital interconnect i got them even these might be too exotic for you running off a plug on the normal house mains via a cheap extension lead. Great test. I am up for it.

 

[spiny norman]

TrevC your welcome to come listen and see for yourself I think you would learn a thing or 2 despite being devout.

You really think if he heard a difference he would ever admit it? It can't happen, so it wouldn't happen.

 

[lindsayt]

if you had good equipment with decent interconnects and good cabling you would understand what they meant re dynamics and timing?

Dynamics and timing are a part of music and the way it's performed, hifi equipment can't affect either. There's nothing wrong with my equipment or wires.

That is a bold statement to make. There's been something wrong, sonically, with every component I've heard. All I've been able to do is settle on equipment with the most acceptable set of compromises for me.

TrevC, what equipment do you have in your main system? I'm wondering how it would stack up against ellisdj's?

 

[keeper of the quays]

The thing with dynamics in music seems especially important with classical music..i have been listening to Mahler 2nd symphony by the London symphony orchestra conducted by Valery Gergiev..this incredible piece of music was recorded live! When I listened to it what came to mind was a seascape..with the music coming into the shore like waves, sometimes ebbing and flowing then crashing roaring waves..you could hear the width and depth of the vista presented by the recording and sometimes amongst this beautifully recorded piece the sea literally sank into the sand! Pausing for the listener to appreciate what came before and to look forward to what the music will next reveal..wide range equipment reveals this..your taken into the music..by using coat hangers and bell wire and freebie rubbish interconnects your missing so much in the music..yes you can hear the music on your held back hifi but your not taken on a musical journey? Your waiting for a bus that never arrives.

 

[andyjm]

..wide range equipment reveals this..your taken into the music..by using coat hangers and bell wire and freebie rubbish interconnects your missing so much in the music..yes you can hear the music on your held back hifi but your not taken on a musical journey? Your waiting for a bus that never arrives.

So, my 12 year old Krell power amplifier is full of dust - I thought this would be a good opportunity to blow the dust out and have a look at what £5500 back in 2004 had bought me. Frankly, I was shocked. Instead of the internal audio interconnects being made from pure gold, insulated with woven hair plucked from the bum of a unicorn, they had used computer grade ribbon cable. RIBBON CABLE!

I couldn't believe it.

Didn't they understand timing?? What about richness?? It must be leaking out all over the inside of my amplifer.

Alternatively, perhaps the engineer who designed the amp hadn't read forums like this about interconnects, had applied good engineering principles, and had concluded that ribbon cable was an excellent solution for his requirements.

I appreciate not everyone has a technical background, but how about applying some common sense. Look inside that fancy amp you own. What has the designer used? Interconnect costing £££? or normal hookup cable. The laws of physics don't change as soon as the connection leaves the amp.

 

[keeper of the quays]

..wide range equipment reveals this..your taken into the music..by using coat hangers and bell wire and freebie rubbish interconnects your missing so much in the music..yes you can hear the music on your held back hifi but your not taken on a musical journey? Your waiting for a bus that never arrives.

So, my 12 year old Krell power amplifier is full of dust - I thought this would be a good opportunity to blow the dust out and have a look at what £5500 back in 2004 had bought me. Frankly, I was shocked. Instead of the internal audio interconnects being made from pure gold, insulated with woven hair plucked from the bum of a unicorn, they had used computer grade ribbon cable. RIBBON CABLE!

I couldn't believe it.   

Didn't they understand timing??  What about richness?? It must be leaking out all over the inside of my amplifer.

Alternatively, perhaps the engineer who designed the amp hadn't read forums like this about interconnects, had applied good engineering principles, and had concluded that ribbon cable was an excellent solution for his requirements.

I appreciate not everyone has a technical background, but how about applying some common sense.  Look inside that fancy amp you own.  What has the designer used?  Interconnect costing £££? or normal hookup cable.  The laws of physics don't change as soon as the connection leaves the amp.   

 

my amp is a quad 909 and my friends amp where I first heard this was a naim amp...i trust my ears not others opinions..i just shared my view on a piece of music I listened to..the point I was making is poor quality cables and interconnects hamper the sound! If you used a quality interconnect on your krell amp it will sound much better than using a freebie one? Regardless of your view of it's construction..

 

[ellisdj]

Well I think it depends Bruno Puzcy the designer of hypex n core etc digital amps has a new high end range of electronics in America. Mola - Mola. Their amplifiers are wired up with one of America cable companies "expensive" range of Kubala Sosna and expensive furutech rca binding posts. They obviously feel it's worth it and you can't discredit the designer as his design are used in a lot of places now. No idea what's inside dagaostino amps would be interesting to know?

 

[andyjm]

..wide range equipment reveals this..your taken into the music..by using coat hangers and bell wire and freebie rubbish interconnects your missing so much in the music..yes you can hear the music on your held back hifi but your not taken on a musical journey? Your waiting for a bus that never arrives.

So, my 12 year old Krell power amplifier is full of dust - I thought this would be a good opportunity to blow the dust out and have a look at what £5500 back in 2004 had bought me. Frankly, I was shocked. Instead of the internal audio interconnects being made from pure gold, insulated with woven hair plucked from the bum of a unicorn, they had used computer grade ribbon cable. RIBBON CABLE!

I couldn't believe it.

Didn't they understand timing?? What about richness?? It must be leaking out all over the inside of my amplifer.

Alternatively, perhaps the engineer who designed the amp hadn't read forums like this about interconnects, had applied good engineering principles, and had concluded that ribbon cable was an excellent solution for his requirements.

I appreciate not everyone has a technical background, but how about applying some common sense. Look inside that fancy amp you own. What has the designer used? Interconnect costing £££? or normal hookup cable. The laws of physics don't change as soon as the connection leaves the amp.

my amp is a quad 909 and my friends amp where I first heard this was a naim amp...i trust my ears not others opinions..i just shared my view on a piece of music I listened to..the point I was making is poor quality cables and interconnects hamper the sound! If you used a quality interconnect on your krell amp it will sound much better than using a freebie one? Regardless of your view of it's construction..

Keeper, I am an old dude, and I have been at this game a while. While it is easy to claim all sorts of things on the net, I do have an educational background in this stuff, and did design equipment for a well known broadcaster when I graduated (albeit a few decades ago).

People love to tinker. Enthusiasts love to tinker more. When I was starting out, mags like 'everday electronics' and 'wireless world' were full of mods and tricks that enthusiastic owners could apply to their equipment. The equipment was accessible, and real improvements could be made by a keen owner with a soldering iron. These days, a board covered in surface mount components so small you can barely see them, and most of the real work done by software has locked owners out of 'modding' their equipment.

But enthusiasts still want to tinker - so they tinker with the only thing they can - the wiring. The same is true in other fields. Car enthusiast are reduced to fitting 'induction kits' (changing the air filter arrangements) and brightly coloured shock absorbers to modify their cars, computer enthusiasts fit plumbing and radiators to their computers. It is the same desire to personalise and customise - but the technology has moved beyond the capability of the owners to modify.

So as an enthusiast, I understand the never ending threads about wiring - as an (ex) engineer, I despair slightly at the belief that two perfectly good, properly specified pieces of wire could possibly alter an audio signal sufficiently to be audible.

 

[TrevC]

Well I think it depends Bruno Puzcy the designer of hypex n core etc digital amps has a new high end range of electronics in America. Mola - Mola. Their amplifiers are wired up with one of America cable companies "expensive" range of Kubala Sosna and expensive furutech rca binding posts. They obviously feel it's worth it and you can't discredit the designer as his design are used in a lot of places now. No idea what's inside dagaostino amps would be interesting to know?

Footastic!

 

[ellisdj]

TrevC missed post 158 and 156, can you please reply to them as you have been able to chime in with the shunning of a product you never seen or heard about until a few mintues ago.

Springs to mind

 

[TrevC]

TrevC missed post 158 and 156, can you please reply to them as you have been able to chime in with the shunning of a product you never seen or heard about until a few mintues ago.

Where did I do that?

 

[BigH]

your taken into the music..by using coat hangers and bell wire and freebie rubbish interconnects your missing so much in the music..yes you can hear the music on your held back hifi but your not taken on a musical journey? Your waiting for a bus that never arrives.

There you go again, stating facts!!

Or is that another one of jokes?

Its just your opinion, its whats in your mind.

You realise Dave worked in the hifi industry for many years, I'm sure he has heard more cables than you ever will.

 

[TomSawyer]

I appreciate not everyone has a technical background, but how about applying some common sense. Look inside that fancy amp you own. What has the designer used? Interconnect costing £££? or normal hookup cable. The laws of physics don't change as soon as the connection leaves the amp.

There seems to be three factions, please don't be offended by the terms I've picked:

- those who think it doesn't matter what you use so long as it conducts (coat hanger faction),

- those who think having spent a few quid on the boxes, it's worth spending a small amount to connect them together (the agnostic faction), and

- those who have had an epiphany and found the one true interconnect (the spiritual faction).

I'm agnostic and spend about £20 as I've said before. Just picking up andyjm's point, I think this makes the case for the agnostic view rather than the coat hanger because there's nothing wrong with ribbon cable - it's good quality copper (not any old steel) - and used inside an earthed cage.

The laws of physics stay the same outside the box so presumably so should the engineering principles - good quality copper conductors, well made soldered joints and an earthed screen?

*Gets ready to duck*

 

[ellisdj]

Wrong sorry

 

[ellisdj]

Where did I do that?

Post 164

Sorry messed up the quoting

 

[davedotco]

I appreciate not everyone has a technical background, but how about applying some common sense. Look inside that fancy amp you own. What has the designer used? Interconnect costing £££? or normal hookup cable. The laws of physics don't change as soon as the connection leaves the amp.

There seems to be three factions, please don't be offended by the terms I've picked:

- those who think it doesn't matter what you use so long as it conducts (coat hanger faction),

- those who think having spent a few quid on the boxes, it's worth spending a small amount to connect them together (the agnostic faction), and

- those who have had an epiphany and found the one true interconnect (the spiritual faction).

I'm agnostic and spend about £20 as I've said before. Just picking up andyjm's point, I think this makes the case for the agnostic view rather than the coat hanger because there's nothing wrong with ribbon cable - it's good quality copper (not any old steel) - and used inside an earthed cage.

The laws of physics stay the same outside the box so presumably so should the engineering principles - good quality copper conductors, well made soldered joints and an earthed screen?

*Gets ready to duck*

Tom, there is something I have found setting up hi-fi systems that is pretty important, I call it good housekeeping.

It entails system setup, support, positioning and yes, cabling. If these factors are taken into account and appropriate to the level of the system, then the system will work at it's best. It will also remain stable in performance terms and real, meaningful upgrades will cost real money.

Cables are a part of this, if only for mechanical reasons or piece of mind. I prefer decent sturdy cables rather than 'freebies' and generally prefer interconnects with a 'quasi-balanced' configuration, ie identical cores for signal send and return and a separate screen. Similarly for the speakers I prefer good solid copper cables properly terminated and, more importantly, properly sealed.

I tend to avoid hi-fi 'branded' cables which in general are no better than 'pro' type (or some generic off the drum) cables and in some cases far more expensive. With systems set up and cabled as described, I would not expect significant differences with different cables, unless of course the cables are deliberately designed to alter the sound, VDH 'Carbon' interconnects and Nordost 'Ribbon' type speaker cables for example.

 

[drummerman]

if you had good equipment with decent interconnects and good cabling you would understand what they meant re dynamics and timing?

Dynamics and timing are a part of music and the way it's performed, hifi equipment can't affect either. There's nothing wrong with my equipment or wires.

Dear oh dear oh dear oh dear oh dear ... did I say oh dear?

 

[keeper of the quays]

..wide range equipment reveals this..your taken into the music..by using coat hangers and bell wire and freebie rubbish interconnects your missing so much in the music..yes you can hear the music on your held back hifi but your not taken on a musical journey? Your waiting for a bus that never arrives.

So, my 12 year old Krell power amplifier is full of dust - I thought this would be a good opportunity to blow the dust out and have a look at what £5500 back in 2004 had bought me. Frankly, I was shocked. Instead of the internal audio interconnects being made from pure gold, insulated with woven hair plucked from the bum of a unicorn, they had used computer grade ribbon cable. RIBBON CABLE!

I couldn't believe it.   

Didn't they understand timing??  What about richness?? It must be leaking out all over the inside of my amplifer.

Alternatively, perhaps the engineer who designed the amp hadn't read forums like this about interconnects, had applied good engineering principles, and had concluded that ribbon cable was an excellent solution for his requirements.

I appreciate not everyone has a technical background, but how about applying some common sense.  Look inside that fancy amp you own.  What has the designer used?  Interconnect costing £££? or normal hookup cable.  The laws of physics don't change as soon as the connection leaves the amp.   

 

my amp is a quad 909 and my friends amp where I first heard this was a naim amp...i trust my ears not others opinions..i just shared my view on a piece of music I listened to..the point I was making is poor quality cables and interconnects hamper the sound! If you used a quality interconnect on your krell amp it will sound much better than using a freebie one? Regardless of your view of it's construction..

Keeper, I am an old dude, and I have been at this game a while. While it is easy to claim all sorts of things on the net, I do have an educational background in this stuff, and did design equipment for a well known broadcaster when I graduated (albeit a few decades ago). 

People love to tinker.  Enthusiasts love to tinker more.  When I was starting out, mags like 'everday electronics' and 'wireless world' were full of mods and tricks that enthusiastic owners could apply to their equipment.  The equipment was accessible, and real improvements could be made by a keen owner with a soldering iron.  These days, a board covered in surface mount components so small you can barely see them, and most of the real work done by software has locked owners out of 'modding' their equipment.

But enthusiasts still want to tinker - so they tinker with the only thing they can - the wiring.  The same is true in other fields.  Car enthusiast are reduced to fitting 'induction kits' (changing the air filter arrangements) and brightly coloured shock absorbers to modify their cars, computer enthusiasts fit plumbing and radiators to their computers.  It is the same desire to personalise and customise - but the technology has moved beyond the capability of the owners to modify.

So as an enthusiast, I understand the never ending threads about wiring - as an (ex) engineer, I  despair slightly at the belief that two perfectly good, properly specified pieces of wire could possibly alter an audio signal sufficiently to be audible. 

I take your point...no disrespect old timer! Lol..are you telling me to use a £20 pair of interconnects between my quad power amp and my musical fidelity pre amp? And I will notice no difference between those cheap ones and my handmade variable thickness wire (solid silver) LFD manufacture..is that what your proposing?

 

[keeper of the quays]

your taken into the music..by using coat hangers and bell wire and freebie rubbish interconnects your missing so much in the music..yes you can hear the music on your held back hifi but your not taken on a musical journey? Your waiting for a bus that never arrives.

There you go again, stating facts!!

Or is that another one of jokes?

Its just your opinion, its whats in your mind.

You realise Dave worked in the hifi industry for many years, I'm sure he has heard more cables than you ever will.  

so someone has worked in the industry for years that makes their utterances sacrosanct? What a notion? Using coat hangers? Lol..you and your mate I can't take seriously..sorry..if you don't like my views? Feel free to ignore me..

 

[davedotco]

..wide range equipment reveals this..your taken into the music..by using coat hangers and bell wire and freebie rubbish interconnects your missing so much in the music..yes you can hear the music on your held back hifi but your not taken on a musical journey? Your waiting for a bus that never arrives.

So, my 12 year old Krell power amplifier is full of dust - I thought this would be a good opportunity to blow the dust out and have a look at what £5500 back in 2004 had bought me. Frankly, I was shocked. Instead of the internal audio interconnects being made from pure gold, insulated with woven hair plucked from the bum of a unicorn, they had used computer grade ribbon cable. RIBBON CABLE!

I couldn't believe it.

Didn't they understand timing?? What about richness?? It must be leaking out all over the inside of my amplifer.

Alternatively, perhaps the engineer who designed the amp hadn't read forums like this about interconnects, had applied good engineering principles, and had concluded that ribbon cable was an excellent solution for his requirements.

I appreciate not everyone has a technical background, but how about applying some common sense. Look inside that fancy amp you own. What has the designer used? Interconnect costing £££? or normal hookup cable. The laws of physics don't change as soon as the connection leaves the amp.

my amp is a quad 909 and my friends amp where I first heard this was a naim amp...i trust my ears not others opinions..i just shared my view on a piece of music I listened to..the point I was making is poor quality cables and interconnects hamper the sound! If you used a quality interconnect on your krell amp it will sound much better than using a freebie one? Regardless of your view of it's construction..

Keeper, I am an old dude, and I have been at this game a while. While it is easy to claim all sorts of things on the net, I do have an educational background in this stuff, and did design equipment for a well known broadcaster when I graduated (albeit a few decades ago).

People love to tinker. Enthusiasts love to tinker more. When I was starting out, mags like 'everday electronics' and 'wireless world' were full of mods and tricks that enthusiastic owners could apply to their equipment. The equipment was accessible, and real improvements could be made by a keen owner with a soldering iron. These days, a board covered in surface mount components so small you can barely see them, and most of the real work done by software has locked owners out of 'modding' their equipment.

But enthusiasts still want to tinker - so they tinker with the only thing they can - the wiring. The same is true in other fields. Car enthusiast are reduced to fitting 'induction kits' (changing the air filter arrangements) and brightly coloured shock absorbers to modify their cars, computer enthusiasts fit plumbing and radiators to their computers. It is the same desire to personalise and customise - but the technology has moved beyond the capability of the owners to modify.

So as an enthusiast, I understand the never ending threads about wiring - as an (ex) engineer, I despair slightly at the belief that two perfectly good, properly specified pieces of wire could possibly alter an audio signal sufficiently to be audible.

I take your point...no disrespect old timer! Lol..are you telling me to use a £20 pair of interconnects between my quad power amp and my musical fidelity pre amp? And I will notice no difference between those cheap ones and my handmade variable thickness wire (solid silver) LFD manufacture..is that what your proposing?

Providing that your LFD cables are not deliberately designed to change the signal (I am not familiar with them) then a pair of (say) terminated Van Damme interconnects, costing £18 + shipping will sound exactly the same.

This is precisely what is being said, compedent, well made interconnects will sound the same providing they have not been deliberately engineered to sound different.