Native_bon
Well-known member
Having considered all on this thread, is it an absolute fact that hard to drive power hungry speakers perform better..? And if so why?
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When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
TrevC
Well-known member
TrevC said:
Evolution is not factual science, its a theory with no evidence behind it whatsoever, that means you need faith to believe in evolution, as its just a guess. In fact the chances of life starting on its own are so big that are Mathmatically considered impossible, same for the factors to allow life on earth.
If you believe in science you will likely realise that we couldn't be here without a God, that is the designer of our physical universe
Covenanter
Well-known member
Rico said:
Wow! No evidence - you've never seen a fossil? Mathematically impossible - experiments as long ago as the 1950s showed that the precursors of life could be produced very easily.
You are of course welcome to your views and the existence or otherwise of a God is an open question. However I would suggest that you need to argue your case rather more rationally.
Chris
Rico said:
There is a lot of evidence to support it. But for something to go from theory to fact takes a lot more than just evidence to support it. So although it is a theory, it is nothing like religion, which has no basis in physics or even evidence. To link this to your last sentence, go read "The Grand Design" by "Stephen Hawking". It does not "prove" anything about god or no god, but it shows you that there all the scientific evidence so far has shown that there does not neccessarily has to be a god for the universe as we observe it.
About the chances on starting of life; yes chances are slim, definately NOT impossible. If you consider the vastness of the universe those chances are quite significant really. Moreover, when it does not happen there is no one to question why it didn't happen, or couldn't happen. The fact that we are here to ask such questions is therefore quite interesting. It is thus false to say that life could not occur naturally. It has been proven that it can, in special circumstances. Given the age and vastness of the universe it is not unlikely that these conditions were met, just difficult to grasp for our minds.
The content of this post has absolutely no relevance to hi-fi.
steve_1979
Well-known member
TrevC
Well-known member
Rico said:
The argument from incredulity. I know it well. It's a pity your incredulity stops short of the most unlikely idea of all, that we were created by an invisible being that came from nowhere using supernatural magic.
A scientific theory is as good as science gets, and the theory of evolution is comprised of empirical evidence, including the fossil record that you choose to ignore obviously hoping it might go away.
http://www.talkorigins.org/
steve_1979
Well-known member
Laurens_B said:
Its a big thing this, interesting stuff, I can't just present my view in few setences on a forum, its true this has nothing to do with hifi, however
I didn't say impossible period, I said considered mathematically impossible which is a scientifical conslusion.
Even in a lab, put all the enzymes necessary for life and give it all the right conditions (an intelligent person has to put these together) and nothing happened. Nowadays we understand that a single cell is so complex, that hardly could have just happened.
Other than life starting on its own lets consider the different factors to allow life on planet earth, all of them together make conditions to support life statistically very slim too.
But I'd like you to tell me the evidence behind the theory of evolution. I'd like observable evidence of a change of kind, this meaning a monkey changing into a human, cat into a dog, a fish into rat, because that needs to happen for evolution to be possible. Please mention the fossil evidence too.
Rico said:
Evolution is a theory in the same way that the Earth being larger than the moon is theory.
It cannot be called fact, only because it cannot be empirically tested. Since Darwin came up with the theory it has been rigourously challenged and tested. Nothing to date has disproven it, and fossil records and more importantly genome science have all but proven it fact.
We see the same sequences in trees, apes, pigs, flowers as we do in humans. We (all living life) are related and come from the same origins.
You can stick your head in the sand, but it's pretty dark down there.
You should read Richard Dawkins excellent "The greatest show on Earth" for an eye opener.
By the way, evolution says absolutely NOTHING about how life started,
You can believe in Evolution (by means of natural selection) AND believe in a god. They are not mutually exclusive.
fr0g said:
Please don't say I have my head in the sand... I don't want to argue with anyone.
Please show evidence. What fossils? what genome Science?
Rico said:
Read Richard Dawkins "The Greatest Show on Earth".
He explains it very well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greatest_Show_on_Earth:_The_Evidence_for_Evolution
BenLaw
Well-known member
steve_1979
Well-known member
Rico said:
I can give comment to all your statements made, which will show your lack of knowledge about the subject (which is fine, you don't have to be an expert in every field), not the lack of evidence. However, it takes waay to much time, and letters to cover all that. There is extensive literature that has answers to your questions, others have linked to it. Nor is this the forum to discuss the theory of evolution and the existence/need of a god.
If you are genuinely interested in this subject, and other aspects of natural selection/physics, there is plenty to read elsewhere.
Despite of how life started,
whats the purpose of life? why do we suffer? why do we die? what happens when we die? important questions no human can answer without the Bible from God.
I just wanted to share that some of us in this forum believe in God when I was posed the question thats all, when I was in a chemistry lesson when I was at school and I first layed my eyes on the periodic table of the elements, I quickly figured that it can't be possible to have such an organized composition of physical matter without intelligence behind it.
Elements organized by proton number and properties... I thought with my own brain as a kid that was fascinating. So look arround you, think about science, people, feelings, nature and draw your conclusion, if you think there can be physical laws without a lawmaker thats fine by me, I look arround with help from what we know thanks to science and conclude that there is no other way.
Theres alot on these on JW.org just type evolution on the search box theres several hundred languages if your first language isn't english like me.
Anyhow, I like amps and speakers, so I will go and follow God, and you can go and follow mr Dawkins, and we can be happy.
whats the purpose of life? why do we suffer? why do we die? what happens when we die? important questions no human can answer without the Bible from God.
I just wanted to share that some of us in this forum believe in God when I was posed the question thats all, when I was in a chemistry lesson when I was at school and I first layed my eyes on the periodic table of the elements, I quickly figured that it can't be possible to have such an organized composition of physical matter without intelligence behind it.
Elements organized by proton number and properties... I thought with my own brain as a kid that was fascinating. So look arround you, think about science, people, feelings, nature and draw your conclusion, if you think there can be physical laws without a lawmaker thats fine by me, I look arround with help from what we know thanks to science and conclude that there is no other way.
Theres alot on these on JW.org just type evolution on the search box theres several hundred languages if your first language isn't english like me.
Anyhow, I like amps and speakers, so I will go and follow God, and you can go and follow mr Dawkins, and we can be happy.
Rico said:
Just because I can't not respond on this:
The fact that humans do not have answers to questions like "what happens when we die", does not mean that therefore the Bible must have it right. You could also think, we just don't know (yet). I understand religion provides support for people who don't like to live without having "safe" answers to all these questions.
So because you think it's just not possible that the periodic table can occur without intelligence behind it, religion must be true. This is enough evidence for you to adopt religion, but you question the evidence presented for the theory of evolution?
Laurens_B said:
Im not an expert on every field but im an expert of the Bible I can assure you, but you cannot dispute that scientists don't agree on evolution, otherwise it wouldn't be so controvercial.
Sure because I think something doesn't make it fact, of corse, who am I? I'm just like you a human.
More scientists than even before believe in God, Albert Einstein himself did even tho not involved with any religion, Science does not go against God, even tho many think it does, wrongly.
All I meant if for you to make your own assessment with observation, which is a scientific method.
pauln said:
From God. Where did he came from? Bible says he is the King of Eternity, the Alpha and Omega (first and last letters of the greek alphabet) so he is the only being in the universe with no beginning or end.
He however is a spirit creature not physical, he created other spirit creatures at one point and also the physical universe. No harder to understand than where the ''Cosmic egg'' and the big bang came from. However intelligence and design are evident in the universe, as opposed to the result of an explosion.
steve_1979
Well-known member
fr0g said:
'They are not mutually
Exclusive' - great line.
Funnily enough this makes good sense. Is Evolution a detailed view of creation.
The orders the same from bacteria to man.
Time scale being the real difference between the two.
But the big bang theory is as 'religious' as the 'God's creation' theory.
Let there be light....
Question is what was there the second before the big bang.
If the universe is expanding, what's it expanding into.
And at the end of it all what will be left?
Interesting points.
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