Harbeth speakers

[tin ear]

I can think of a number of WHF reviews in which the audio component didn't receive a five star rating, and some of them are quite recent. However, I didn't start this thread to critique WHF's reviews and its rating system.

 

[hifikrazy]

I read Stereophile too but they do go on at times.

True, they do seem overly verbose at times.

*lol* This is quite the pot calling the kettle black

 

[davedotco]

I read Stereophile too but they do go on at times.

True, they do seem overly verbose at times.

*lol* This is quite the pot calling the kettle black

*acute* But probably true.

 

[tin ear]

With the value of hindsight, I probably should have sent an email to WHF marked to the attention of Andy Clough.

 

[davedotco]

With the value of hindsight, I probably should have sent an email to WHF marked to the attention of Andy Clough.

And miss out on all the fun, you did the right thing.

The thread was answered long ago, Harbeth are not interested in having their products reviewed in WHF and WHF do not consider the issue important enough to alter their regular method of obtaining review product.

If AC was to answer you question he would simply say that no product has been made available to them.

Read a little of the Harbeth forum and it might become apparent why this is the case.

 

[tin ear]

I have been reading the Harbeth forum as I mentioned earlier. Had I wanted Harbeth's take on why WHF has not reviewed their speakers then I would have posted there; perhaps I will at some point. At least one of us seems to have all the answers.

 

[davedotco]

I have been reading the Harbeth forum as I mentioned earlier. Had I wanted Harbeth's take on why WHF has not reviewed their speakers then I would have posted there; perhaps I will at some point. At least one of us seems to have all the answers.

You asked the question! I have been in the business a fair time including a period when it was my job to get good reviews in WHF and other magazines for products that I represented.

I take the time to post and try and give you some insight into how these things work and you reply as above.

Jog on!

 

[tin ear]

Sorry if I appear snarky. Anyway, I've just sent an email to What Hi-Fi. I will report back if they respond.

Cheers.

 

[BigH]

Probably because Harbeth don't want WHF to review them. Also WHF reliy on manufacturers to send them products to review which I think is a rather dubious practice.

And what do you base this on?

One if they did they would have send WHF some to review. Also if you read the Harbeth forum you will soon see their views on hifi products are somewhat different from WHF views. Read some of Alan Shaw's comments on speaker cables for instance.

If you are referring to sending in products they are several reasons for that view, one you only get what manufacturers choose to send in, 2 how do you know its a standard product and not some tweeked for review one? Also you get this problem no Harbeth reviews, no Creek reviews etc.

Anyway I would not rely on one mags review, some of WHF reviews have been well out of line with other reviews. Also most the reviews get 4 or 5 stars.

What I understand Harbeth sells far more speakers outside the UK than within, just look how many UK dealers they have, from memory it was about 7, so I dont think they are bothered about WHF, they get good reviews in other mags.

If it's simply a matter of Harbeth not submitting review samples or not wanting WHF to review their speakers then so be it, but that is just conjecture in the absence of confirmation from WHF and/or Harbeth. I have been reading the Harbeth User Group forum and fail to see how what is written there would have any bearing on why I'm yet to see a Harbeth review here. I would think that Alan Shaw's views on amplifiers and cables would be at odds with most, if not all hi fi publications, but that has not dissuaded the likes of Stereophile and The Absolute Sound from giving his speakers glowing reviews. So I very much doubt that WHF would be particularly precious about that.

As I've said, my understanding is that hi fi publications are approached by hi fi manufacturers to review their products, and they also request product samples from hi fi manufacturers for review. WHF may operate differently as Vladimir opined earlier in this thread, but we would need WHF to confirm that. To suggest that manufacturers are sending in "doped" versions of their products for review sounds like a conspiracy theory without any basis in fact to me. And WHF has reviewed Creek products by the way.

I do read other hi fi publications which means that I don't soley rely on WHF as a source of information. As I've said repeatedly now, it just so happens that WHF's reviews have aligned with my own impressions of audio gear that I've auditioned. So I have found them to be quite reliable. I'm sure there are others who have had very different experiences. This is an inherently subjective pursuit after all. And WHF does give three star ratings by the way.

Andy Clough is more than welcome to chime in.

Well this was answered by WHF in an previous post about why they had not reviewed the Creek 50A, they said Creek did not send them the amp. I think they asked them for one but it was not forth coming. The Creek 50A in 2 other Hifi mags beat the Arcam A19 which was WHF amp of the year. Yes they have reviewed Creek products in the past but the reviews were not very favourable, I believe non got 5 stars. Some got 3 stars.

 

[Vladimir]

So basically when a manufacturer's future best selling product needs a great review, they go and bet safe at corrupt "journalistic" hi-fi publications?

- John, we will increase this year advertising budget in your magazine, but John... We really really need this one to get a good word out. Have Art do it. We like his delivery and our 50-70 y/o buyers like his reviews the best.

- Of course. I'll call Art right away.

 

[John Duncan]

I have been reading the Harbeth forum as I mentioned earlier. Had I wanted Harbeth's take on why WHF has not reviewed their speakers then I would have posted there; perhaps I will at some point. At least one of us seems to have all the answers.

You asked the question! I have been in the business a fair time including a period when it was my job to get good reviews in WHF and other magazines for products that I represented.

I take the time to post and try and give you some insight into how these things work and you reply as above.

Jog on!

Somebody taking umbrage at your tone on internet forums, davedotco? Surely not.

 

[davedotco]

So basically when a manufacturer's future best selling product needs a great review, they go and bet safe at corrupt "journalistic" hi-fi publications?

- John, we will increase this year advertising budget in your magazine, but John... We really really need this one to get a good word out. Have Art do it. We like his delivery and our 50-70 y/o buyers like his reviews the best.

- Of course. I'll call Art right away.

Suppliers will always try and get their product to the right reviewer, that has always been the case. WHF have gone to some lengths to ensure this does not happen by severely limiting the suppliers access to the reviewrs.

It was easier in my day, turn up at the office/reviewer's home with a product, set it up and play it to him, tell him what he is hearing and why and have plenty of good information, manufacturers aims, technical explanations, and whatever else all nicely printed out for reference. The whole lot is duplicated on a cd rom (in my day) in fully editable MS Word, all ready to be cut and pasted into the review with a little judicious editing.

The review process then becomes;

Quick listen to the product to make sure you can hear what you have been told you can hear.

Write an intro and a conclusion, padding out the middle with all the stuff on the cd rom.

Finish early, go to the pub.

 

[davedotco]

I have been reading the Harbeth forum as I mentioned earlier. Had I wanted Harbeth's take on why WHF has not reviewed their speakers then I would have posted there; perhaps I will at some point. At least one of us seems to have all the answers.

You asked the question! I have been in the business a fair time including a period when it was my job to get good reviews in WHF and other magazines for products that I represented.

I take the time to post and try and give you some insight into how these things work and you reply as above.

Jog on!

Somebody taking umbrage at your tone on internet forums, davedotco? Surely not.

Hi John, long time no see/read.

I like to get on my soapbox occasionally, gee the place up a bit.....*dirol*

 

[Overdose]

I have been reading the Harbeth forum as I mentioned earlier. Had I wanted Harbeth's take on why WHF has not reviewed their speakers then I would have posted there; perhaps I will at some point. At least one of us seems to have all the answers.

You asked the question! I have been in the business a fair time including a period when it was my job to get good reviews in WHF and other magazines for products that I represented.

I take the time to post and try and give you some insight into how these things work and you reply as above.

Jog on!

Somebody taking umbrage at your tone on internet forums, davedotco? Surely not.

Whilst I don't agree with everything he says (things would be dull if we all agreed), I find his points honest, succinct and unambiguous.

Some may consider his posts arrogant and 'know it all', but he appears to know much more than most on here and with an understanding of the industry that most on here definitely don't have.

Far more preferable than ignorant waffle.

 

[plastic penguin]

Sorry for going grossly off-topic, but the name Harbeth reminds me of a posh boarder.

"By the by, Harbeth, would you like me to drive you back to St. Hugebankbalance in the old jalopy, or would you like Streeves to dust down the roller?"

 

[Overdose]

Sorry for going grossly off-topic, but the name Harbeth reminds me of a posh boarder.

 

[tin ear]

Probably because Harbeth don't want WHF to review them. Also WHF reliy on manufacturers to send them products to review which I think is a rather dubious practice.

And what do you base this on?

One if they did they would have send WHF some to review. Also if you read the Harbeth forum you will soon see their views on hifi products are somewhat different from WHF views. Read some of Alan Shaw's comments on speaker cables for instance.

If you are referring to sending in products they are several reasons for that view, one you only get what manufacturers choose to send in, 2 how do you know its a standard product and not some tweeked for review one? Also you get this problem no Harbeth reviews, no Creek reviews etc.

Anyway I would not rely on one mags review, some of WHF reviews have been well out of line with other reviews. Also most the reviews get 4 or 5 stars.

What I understand Harbeth sells far more speakers outside the UK than within, just look how many UK dealers they have, from memory it was about 7, so I dont think they are bothered about WHF, they get good reviews in other mags.

If it's simply a matter of Harbeth not submitting review samples or not wanting WHF to review their speakers then so be it, but that is just conjecture in the absence of confirmation from WHF and/or Harbeth. I have been reading the Harbeth User Group forum and fail to see how what is written there would have any bearing on why I'm yet to see a Harbeth review here. I would think that Alan Shaw's views on amplifiers and cables would be at odds with most, if not all hi fi publications, but that has not dissuaded the likes of Stereophile and The Absolute Sound from giving his speakers glowing reviews. So I very much doubt that WHF would be particularly precious about that.

As I've said, my understanding is that hi fi publications are approached by hi fi manufacturers to review their products, and they also request product samples from hi fi manufacturers for review. WHF may operate differently as Vladimir opined earlier in this thread, but we would need WHF to confirm that. To suggest that manufacturers are sending in "doped" versions of their products for review sounds like a conspiracy theory without any basis in fact to me. And WHF has reviewed Creek products by the way.

I do read other hi fi publications which means that I don't soley rely on WHF as a source of information. As I've said repeatedly now, it just so happens that WHF's reviews have aligned with my own impressions of audio gear that I've auditioned. So I have found them to be quite reliable. I'm sure there are others who have had very different experiences. This is an inherently subjective pursuit after all. And WHF does give three star ratings by the way.

Andy Clough is more than welcome to chime in.

Well this was answered by WHF in an previous post about why they had not reviewed the Creek 50A, they said Creek did not send them the amp. I think they asked them for one but it was not forth coming. The Creek 50A in 2 other Hifi mags beat the Arcam A19 which was WHF amp of the year. Yes they have reviewed Creek products in the past but the reviews were not very favourable, I believe non got 5 stars. Some got 3 stars.

So WHF has reviewed Creek products and they gave them less than four or five stars, which is contrary to what you asserted earlier. It seems likely that WHF would review their products again if Creek were prepared to submit them.

 

[tin ear]

I have been reading the Harbeth forum as I mentioned earlier. Had I wanted Harbeth's take on why WHF has not reviewed their speakers then I would have posted there; perhaps I will at some point. At least one of us seems to have all the answers.

You asked the question! I have been in the business a fair time including a period when it was my job to get good reviews in WHF and other magazines for products that I represented.

I take the time to post and try and give you some insight into how these things work and you reply as above.

Jog on!

Somebody taking umbrage at your tone on internet forums, davedotco? Surely not.

Hi John, long time no see/read.

I like to get on my soapbox occasionally, gee the place up a bit.....*dirol*

So you have form? Then the apology is withdrawn.

 

[plastic penguin]

Probably because Harbeth don't want WHF to review them. Also WHF reliy on manufacturers to send them products to review which I think is a rather dubious practice.

And what do you base this on?

One if they did they would have send WHF some to review. Also if you read the Harbeth forum you will soon see their views on hifi products are somewhat different from WHF views. Read some of Alan Shaw's comments on speaker cables for instance.

If you are referring to sending in products they are several reasons for that view, one you only get what manufacturers choose to send in, 2 how do you know its a standard product and not some tweeked for review one? Also you get this problem no Harbeth reviews, no Creek reviews etc.

Anyway I would not rely on one mags review, some of WHF reviews have been well out of line with other reviews. Also most the reviews get 4 or 5 stars.

What I understand Harbeth sells far more speakers outside the UK than within, just look how many UK dealers they have, from memory it was about 7, so I dont think they are bothered about WHF, they get good reviews in other mags.

If it's simply a matter of Harbeth not submitting review samples or not wanting WHF to review their speakers then so be it, but that is just conjecture in the absence of confirmation from WHF and/or Harbeth. I have been reading the Harbeth User Group forum and fail to see how what is written there would have any bearing on why I'm yet to see a Harbeth review here. I would think that Alan Shaw's views on amplifiers and cables would be at odds with most, if not all hi fi publications, but that has not dissuaded the likes of Stereophile and The Absolute Sound from giving his speakers glowing reviews. So I very much doubt that WHF would be particularly precious about that.

As I've said, my understanding is that hi fi publications are approached by hi fi manufacturers to review their products, and they also request product samples from hi fi manufacturers for review. WHF may operate differently as Vladimir opined earlier in this thread, but we would need WHF to confirm that. To suggest that manufacturers are sending in "doped" versions of their products for review sounds like a conspiracy theory without any basis in fact to me. And WHF has reviewed Creek products by the way.

I do read other hi fi publications which means that I don't soley rely on WHF as a source of information. As I've said repeatedly now, it just so happens that WHF's reviews have aligned with my own impressions of audio gear that I've auditioned. So I have found them to be quite reliable. I'm sure there are others who have had very different experiences. This is an inherently subjective pursuit after all. And WHF does give three star ratings by the way.

Andy Clough is more than welcome to chime in.

Well this was answered by WHF in an previous post about why they had not reviewed the Creek 50A, they said Creek did not send them the amp. I think they asked them for one but it was not forth coming. The Creek 50A in 2 other Hifi mags beat the Arcam A19 which was WHF amp of the year. Yes they have reviewed Creek products in the past but the reviews were not very favourable, I believe non got 5 stars. Some got 3 stars.

So WHF has reviewed Creek products and they gave them less than four or five stars, which is contrary to what you asserted earlier. It seems likely that WHF would review their products again if Creek were prepared to submit them.

First, WHFI can only review a product/component if the said company sends a machine. Only on rare occasions (AVI actives spring to mind) do they purchase a product for review.

Over the last 3/4 years WHFI reviewed the Creek Destiny amp and CDP, not at the same time, and the original Evo amp and CDP in a all-in-one test, back in Jan 2006. On all occasions the Creeks were awarded 4 stars.

*EDIT* Missed this one which was the recipient of 4 stars.

 

[tin ear]

Thanks for the clarification. It seems straightforward enough and above board. Much as I expected really. So based on that it would appear that there are no reviews of Harbeth speakers at WHF because they simply haven't submitted any.

 

[plastic penguin]

Thanks for the clarification. It seems straightforward enough and above board. Much as I expected really. So based on that it would appear that there are no reviews of Harbeth speakers at WHF because they simply haven't submitted any.

Found this Destiny CDP review, and I'm positive about the original Evo amp and CD combo. They tested it with Epos M12. something speakers, alongside Arcams A70, CD73, powering PMC DB1+ (not the later 'i').

AFAIK, since I've archived all their mags (Jan 2004 onwards) I can't recall seeing anything from Harbeth. That said, I could be wrong.

 

[plastic penguin]

Bingo!

Just turned up Nov 2005 edition of the mag and they are listing Harbeth Super HL5, which were given a 'First Test' in May 2003. They were 5 stars recipients, with the following comments: "Lookers they're not - but when they sing, few rivals can match them".

Hope that helps.

 

[tin ear]

Good work! That's quite a while ago though. I assume that the review is not available online as my searches have been fruitless.

 

[plastic penguin]

I assume that the review is not available online as my searches have been fruitless.

No, I checked on Google...no joy. If I get the chance over the next day or two I'll try and scan the page, but that's the best I can do as my collection only goes back to 2004.

 

[tin ear]

I assume that the review is not available online as my searches have been fruitless.

No, I checked on Google...no joy. If I get the chance over the next day or two I'll try and scan the page, but that's the best I can do as my collection only goes back to 2004.

That would be great! Thanks again, you've been most helpful.