Thoughts after Scalford

[matthewpiano]

Morning all. I went to the Hi-Fi Wigwam Show at Scalford Hall in Melton Mowbray yesterday, for the first time.

As many will know, it is a different sort of show with individual exhibitors showing their own systems rather than manufacturers and dealers. This inevitably leads to a very wide range of kit - new, old, expensive, and affordable.

The highlights for me?

The over-riding impression for me was that the best speakers were mostly older designs, or heavily inspired by older designs. I heard Spendor BC1, KEF Reference 104, Harbeth P3ESR, and 2 pairs of old JBL L-series. These were the speaker highlights of the day, and though different, each in their own way could have kept me listening for hours. Very instructive was hearing the Spendor BC1 with Icon Audio valve monos straight after hearing modern Focal Electra floorstanders with the same electronics. For me, the Spendors wiped the floor with the Focals, really opening the music up and providing more 'at the performance' realism than I've heard for a long time. Of the modern speakers, a tiny pair of Q Acoustics 3010s did incredibly well with Shostakovich and Rachmaninov orchestral pieces, driven using Cyrus 8vs with PSX-R, TEAC UD-501 DAC, and a laptop. Those little speakers have far more dynamic, timbral and tonal ability than you would ever expect for their price and size. The best modern speakers at the event were the Harbeth P3ESR. Small, but so natural sounding and something I could happily live with for a very long time.

Hearing and seeing some of the older electronics in use was also illuminating. I heard some DIY speakers based on an old Acoustic Research design (complete with 8" paper drive units) being driven by an old JVC A-X4 Super-A integrated and a JVC Direct Drive cassette deck (yes, tape!) and sounding as good as anything at the show. There was also some lovely Sony kit (CD player, pre/power amp) driving some Yamaha NS-1000s and doing a wonderful job of it. One of the sets of old JBL speakers I heard were being used with restored QUAD II monos and a QUAD 22 pre, again creating the sort of sound you feel able to walk into. Of the newer amplifiers I was most taken with the Leben integrated which was used with the Harbeth P3ESRs. Only 15wpc, but no problems driving the benign load of the Harbeths and absolutely lovely to listen to and look at.

One of the most enjoyable and useful shows I've been to, with much better music than you usually hear at these things, and a proper sense of the focus being on the music and what the hi-fi can do for it rather than the other way round.

 

[Al ears]

Morning all. I went to the Hi-Fi Wigwam Show at Scalford Hall in Melton Mowbray yesterday, for the first time.

As many will know, it is a different sort of show with individual exhibitors showing their own systems rather than manufacturers and dealers. This inevitably leads to a very wide range of kit - new, old, expensive, and affordable.

The highlights for me?

The over-riding impression for me was that the best speakers were mostly older designs, or heavily inspired by older designs. I heard Spendor BC1, KEF Reference 104, Harbeth P3ESR, and 2 pairs of old JBL L-series. These were the speaker highlights of the day, and though different, each in their own way could have kept me listening for hours. Very instructive was hearing the Spendor BC1 with Icon Audio valve monos straight after hearing modern Focal Electra floorstanders with the same electronics. For me, the Spendors wiped the floor with the Focals, really opening the music up and providing more 'at the performance' realism than I've heard for a long time. Of the modern speakers, a tiny pair of Q Acoustics 3010s did incredibly well with Shostakovich and Rachmaninov orchestral pieces, driven using Cyrus 8vs with PSX-R, TEAC UD-501 DAC, and a laptop. Those little speakers have far more dynamic, timbral and tonal ability than you would ever expect for their price and size. The best modern speakers at the event were the Harbeth P3ESR. Small, but so natural sounding and something I could happily live with for a very long time.

Hearing and seeing some of the older electronics in use was also illuminating. I heard some DIY speakers based on an old Acoustic Research design (complete with 8" paper drive units) being driven by an old JVC A-X4 Super-A integrated and a JVC Direct Drive cassette deck (yes, tape!) and sounding as good as anything at the show. There was also some lovely Sony kit (CD player, pre/power amp) driving some Yamaha NS-1000s and doing a wonderful job of it. One of the sets of old JBL speakers I heard were being used with restored QUAD II monos and a QUAD 22 pre, again creating the sort of sound you feel able to walk into. Of the newer amplifiers I was most taken with the Leben integrated which was used with the Harbeth P3ESRs. Only 15wpc, but no problems driving the benign load of the Harbeths and absolutely lovely to listen to and look at.

One of the most enjoyable and useful shows I've been to, with much better music than you usually hear at these things, and a proper sense of the focus being on the music and what the hi-fi can do for it rather than the other way round.

Nice write up matthewpiano. Just goes to show there classifying lacking in established speaker design. Glad you enjoyed it.

 

[nopiano]

Very interesting, thanks! I often find that less is more at shows, and some little QAs in the Origin Live room at Bristol also sounded very good. Similarly, Harbeth was also very natural.

The only very high end systems I've ever loved at shows were decades ago when Absolute Sounds first played Audio Research and Sonus faber, with an Oracle turntable. From that moment, I knew I wanted sf loudspeakers!

 

[Andrewjvt]

Enjoyed that
goes to prove that either they dont make them like they used to or speaker makers are more about style size and cheap parts rather than sound now days

 

[lindsayt]

Matthew, I'm glad you enjoyed the show. It is a great event, isn't it.

The monster horn speaker room with all the bling TT's off the entrance hall was a great experiment in listening expertise.

It had a very small sweet spot for the size of room. Sit at the front and the sound was too harsh and in your face. Sit at the back and it was too bloated in the bass. Sit in the middle - slumped in the seat and it was just right. Stand up and the sound lost its focus.

And yet the vast majority of visitors to that room sat in one place (mostly the wrong places) or just stood by the door.

 

[drummerman]

Great stuff, thanks

Tell us more; What cables were used (to cheer TrevC up) and were there dissappointments?

I am surprised they used the smallest QAcoustics but I guess that was the point of the exercise. Small speakers tend to squash dynamics with higher volume but I assume that was not an issue?

 

[CnoEvil]

It's great to get back to sanity with this thread, as the Forum seems to have lost the plot recently.

I have always believed that some Harbeths on the end of a good Valve amp is where you should ultimately be at. *diablo*

 

[matthewpiano]

Just to pick up on a few points made in the replies...

One of the nice things about this show was that there were several rooms where the system owner wasn't over-driving the space. Too often at hi-fi shows many rooms are uncomfortable to enter because the volume is racked up so high. There were one or two culprits at Scalford, but in the main the volumes selected were sensible. Those little Qs were operating in a small room at a comfortable listening volume and the sense of scale they produced was impressive without being as fake and over-exaggerated as some modern budget speakers.

I didn't take much notice of cables, and the exhibitors didn't make much of them in the main either. There were certainly some substantial looking cables around, but I couldn't tell you whether they had any impact or any more about them.

Those big horn speakers were playing Wagner when I went in, and they produced a strong sense of realism, including a strong 3 dimensional soundstage. I must have accidentally picked the right position in the room.

As for the Leben and Harbeth combination, I'd love it Cno, but it's way out of my league. Nice to be able to hear it though.

 

[Macspur]

Thank you for the write up Matthew.

I wanted to go, but being on a Sunday and having to rely on someone to drive me there, it prob won't happen.

I've read so many great things about the Leben and Harbeth combo, if I were ever to go down the valve route that would be the way for me.

I understand Colin from IQ had a good audience yesterday too.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[tonky]

Be nice to get some feedback from Colin of IQ speakers. How did it go for you Colin?

tonky

 

[lindsayt]

Every year Gromit exhibits a system costing £1000 or less that's highly domestically acceptable and sounds good. This year was no exception with his Sony TT, Cyrus amps and Q Acoustic speakers.

They sounded best if you sat on the floor between the speakers. The dining chair seating put your ears too high.

I really enjoyed JVS's Acapella system, SteveC's DIY open baffles with DIY SET amp, the Urei 813's, the Klangfilm system.

 

[plastic penguin]

Nice write up, Matthew.

Seems like you had a jolly up there. Have to confess, I still have soft spot for the older designs (and sound). Little matches them: The newer designs have the sonic balm but don't quite hit the spot when it comes emotion in vocals or music of the older designs.

 

[iQ Speakers]

Be nice to get some feedback from Colin of IQ speakers. How did it go for you Colin?

tonky

Well apart from feeling the "odd one out" it went amazingly well. The reaction to my room was incredible with lots of comments of "Sounds superb the best room we have been in" I said come back at 5 and tell me!*biggrin*

Later in the afternoon I had a about 5 individuals came back and camped out in my room! There was 3 of them at one time I said OK look after the room I'm going for a coffee, no break just water all day.

I took my streamer with the intention of streaming everthing! mistake. Luckilly a guy from HiFi Pig who is doing a review of the Nord was very supportive and leant me some decent CD's. Plus lots of visiters bought there own CD's. Some very strange kit and alot of passonate exibitors.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Be nice to get some feedback from Colin of IQ speakers. How did it go for you Colin?

tonky

Well apart from feeling the "odd one out" it went amazingly well. The reaction to my room was incredible with lots of comments of "Sounds superb the best room we have been in" I said come back at 5 and tell me!*biggrin*

Later in the afternoon I had a about 5 individuals came back and camped out in my room! There was 3 of them at one time I said OK look after the room I'm going for a coffee, no break just water all day.

I took my streamer with the intention of streaming everthing! mistake. Luckilly a guy from HiFi Pig who is doing a review of the Nord was very supportive and leant me some decent CD's. Plus lots of visiters bought there own CD's. Some very strange kit and alot of passonate exibitors.

did you take any Abrahamsen stuff with you ? if you did what did people think of it .

 

[matthewpiano]

Thank you for the write up Matthew.

I wanted to go, but being on a Sunday and having to rely on someone to drive me there, it prob won't happen.

I've read so many great things about the Leben and Harbeth combo, if I were ever to go down the valve route that would be the way for me.

I understand Colin from IQ had a good audience yesterday too.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

Hi Mac. I had to rely on public transport (still waiting for return of my driving licence following my brain injury last year). Made difficult by the trains as the earliest they arrive at Melton Mowbray on a Sunday is about half 12, but it was made much easier by the excellent shuttle bus service provided by the organisers. That took me pretty much door to door between MM rail station and Scalford Hall. I didn't get chance to hear the iQ room properly as when I went in there was a constant stream of conversation, but what I did hear sounded very nice indeed.

 

[iQ Speakers]

Really sorry about that mathewpiano it would of been good to speak to a friendly face so to speak. My room was only about 3M square and it was rammed most of the day.

 

[TrevC]

Great stuff, thanks

Tell us more; What cables were used (to cheer TrevC up) and were there dissappointments?

Your spelling is disappointing (see me) and I don't need cheering up. :O)

 

[Leeps]

The over-riding impression for me was that the best speakers were mostly older designs, or heavily inspired by older designs...For me, the Spendors wiped the floor with the Focals, really opening the music up and providing more 'at the performance' realism than I've heard for a long time...The best modern speakers at the event were the Harbeth P3ESR. Small, but so natural sounding and something I could happily live with for a very long time.

I completely get your point about "natural sounding" equipment and it's one of my biggest criticisms about many rooms I've walked into (and out again shortly after) at the Bristol show. Many combos may splice and present every fragment of the music, but it doesn't actually sound real. It sounds like a hifi.

One particular combo I heard at Bristol, which I shan't name for fear of a backlash as it's a very popular combo on this forum, to my ears just didn't sound right. When I was in the room, I could tell many punters were lapping up the salesman's patter with occasional ooohs and aaah's and nods indicating they thought it was the bees knees, but my overriding impression was that it was forced and completely unnatural. I'm not saying it was outright BAD, but it certainly felt like a hifi was in the room rather than the artist.

I do wonder whether many modern speaker manufacturers are so obsessed with the new materials and construction techniques available (which may be possible at price points that were previously impossible), that they've forgotten to use their ears in the process. It's noteworthy (to me anyway) that the likes of Neat are known to be keen musicians that enjoy the music and design their speakers accordingly. I'm certainly a fan of the end result of their speakers, along with the Spendors you mention.

I guess there's something for everyone's taste, but I've only heard a few modern speakers that get close my 10-15 year old Ruarks. They show me that it is possible to have your cake and eat it: all the detail and timing prowess offered by more robotic modern counterparts but sounding completely natural and unforced at the same time.

 

[matthewpiano]

Really sorry about that mathewpiano it would of been good to speak to a friendly face so to speak. My room was only about 3M square and it was rammed most of the day.

No problem. These things are always hard to manage. As I say, what I heard sounded very nice indeed. Hopefully I'll catch you at a future event. I'll definitely be going to Scalford again as it is a really good day, full of music enthusiasts who like hi-fi that brings the music to life.

 

[lindsayt]

The Spendors and the Focals were in the Butlers Pantry. This is probably the worst room at the Scalford hotel for acoustics.

It's like setting your system up inside a giant drum. It's really difficult to avoid getting far too much bass reinforcement. This is a bit of a shame, as properly furnished it would probably make a great sounding room - apart from the sound leakage from the room next door, through the door.

For the last 2 years, nobody has been alloted that room, because of the short straw acoustics.

I wouldn't use that room to state a preference for any 2 pairs of speakers demo'd in there, because the acoustics really are that bad.

 

[matthewpiano]

As a result of the day at Scalford, I'm going to have some fun putting a vintage system together on a tight budget. A couple of pieces falling into place as we speak, but I'll report back when I've got something up and running. I'm ready to have some fun again, and to do it without smashing my financial position to smitherines.

 

[Leeps]

As a result of the day at Scalford, I'm going to have some fun putting a vintage system together on a tight budget. A couple of pieces falling into place as we speak, but I'll report back when I've got something up and running. I'm ready to have some fun again, and to do it without smashing my financial position to smitherines.

Quite. If you know what you're looking for you can have really satisfying sounds for pennies. My front three speakers which look and sound great cost me £240. And although I will admit they don't have the same standard of finish as my previous MA Gold GX50/GXC150 combo (£1500's worth), in my opinion they outperform them sonically.

 

[wilro15]

The over-riding impression for me was that the best speakers were mostly older designs, or heavily inspired by older designs...For me, the Spendors wiped the floor with the Focals, really opening the music up and providing more 'at the performance' realism than I've heard for a long time...The best modern speakers at the event were the Harbeth P3ESR. Small, but so natural sounding and something I could happily live with for a very long time.

I completely get your point about "natural sounding" equipment and it's one of my biggest criticisms about many rooms I've walked into (and out again shortly after) at the Bristol show. Many combos may splice and present every fragment of the music, but it doesn't actually sound real. It sounds like a hifi.

One particular combo I heard at Bristol, which I shan't name for fear of a backlash as it's a very popular combo on this forum, to my ears just didn't sound right. When I was in the room, I could tell many punters were lapping up the salesman's patter with occasional ooohs and aaah's and nods indicating they thought it was the bees knees, but my overriding impression was that it was forced and completely unnatural. I'm not saying it was outright BAD, but it certainly felt like a hifi was in the room rather than the artist.

Don't be shy. Name and shame. Nobody agrees about anything on here anyway.

 

[CnoEvil]

Don't be shy.  Name and shame.  Nobody agrees about anything on here anyway.

I agree....see, that wasn't so hard.

 

[drummerman]

As a result of the day at Scalford, I'm going to have some fun putting a vintage system together on a tight budget. A couple of pieces falling into place as we speak, but I'll report back when I've got something up and running. I'm ready to have some fun again, and to do it without smashing my financial position to smitherines.

Nice one.

Would I put one together it would be either a cyrus one, Rega Planar of some sort and a pair of Mission 770 or a Quad (Solid State) system with an old Kef reference.