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Speakers for bright room

jas0_0

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2015
17
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4,520
Hi - I have been trying to tame the top end of my system with various changes. Each has brought benefits, but I now think that the treble of my Proac Response One SCs is just too shouty for me in my room, so I'm thinking of a speaker change.

On the list are Harbeth 30.1, ATC SCM11, 12 and 19, and Spendor 3/1. From what I've read, all of these have slightly rolled off highs. I have heard similar about current KEFs, but I just don't like how they look - much prefer the retro style of the Harbeths, Spendors and older ATCs.

My room is 3m x 5m, uncarpeted and sparsely furnished. The speakers would have to have their backs about 30cm from the rear wall. Ideally I'm looking for a warmer, fuller sound. Does anyone have views on which would work best? And are there others I should audition?

Also, does anyone have experience of both the ATC SCM12s against current SCM11s? The SCM12 specs says it has 10Hz less bass extension in measurments, but wondering how this stacks up in listening.

Many thanks,

J
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
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0
My suggestions would be:

Harbeth

Spendor (especially classic series)

Opera

Sonus Faber

Kef R Series

Diapason
 

BigH

New member
Dec 29, 2012
97
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0
First I would buy a rug if you don't have one already, put on the floor between you and the speakers. Some Kefs are quite tradional looking.

Harbeths, Spendors and Kefs are worth demoing. Not sure about ATC. Audionote work well near walls but are very difficult to audition, there is a dealer in Essex if you live that way.
 

jas0_0

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2015
17
0
4,520
Great - thanks all. It seems like Spendors and Harbeths are the way to go. Interesting that have crossed off ATC. I read that their treble is darker than others - is there a reason why you wouldn't recommend them for my situation?

I was thinking Harbeth 30.1 as I aim to buy second hand and sadly the 30.2s will probably be out of reach. Could the P3ESR also work?

I don't know much about the older KEFs, are there any that would be worth a look on the used market?

Thanks again,

J
 

Macspur

Well-known member
May 3, 2010
77
0
18,540
jas0_0 said:
Great - thanks all. It seems like Spendors and Harbeths are the way to go. Interesting that have crossed off ATC. I read that their treble is darker than others - is there a reason why you wouldn't recommend them for my situation?

I was thinking Harbeth 30.1 as I aim to buy second hand and sadly the 30.2s will probably be out of reach. Could the P3ESR also work?

I don't know much about the older KEFs, are there any that would be worth a look on the used market?

Thanks again,

J
I see, the 30.1 is still a very well thought of model. The P3's are a small stand mount and everything I've ever read about them and when having spoken to owners, it's always been glowing reports... well suited to a small listening area in particular.

If your budget could stretch to a used pair of SHL5+ you wouldn't look back.

Cno is the resident Kef expert here, so will hand over to him for that.

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com
 

ellisdj

New member
Dec 11, 2008
377
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0
is there no way of trying to manage the room better.

makes more sense overall - you might not need to do as much as you think.

My room is the same size and I had terrible echo in here and the issues that come with it??

It's very hard getting a full and warm sound in a sparse room.
 

jas0_0

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2015
17
0
4,520
Macspur said:
I see, the 30.1 is still a very well thought of model. The P3's are a small stand mount and everything I've ever read about them and when having spoken to owners, it's always been glowing reports... well suited to a small listening area in particular.

If your budget could stretch to a used pair of SHL5+ you wouldn't look back.

Cno is the resident Kef expert here, so will hand over to him for that.

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com
Thanks Mac - I think the size of the SHL5+ might be hard to justify to my better half...! I will try to find some P3s as well. One thought, will the 400wpc of my Nord Power amp be massive overkill for them?
 

jas0_0

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2015
17
0
4,520
ellisdj said:
is there no way of trying to manage the room better.

makes more sense overall - you might not need to do as much as you think.

My room is the same size and I had terrible echo in here and the issues that come with it??

It's very hard getting a full and warm sound in a sparse room.
Hi Ellis, thanks for this suggestion, though I actually experimented with dampening the room down by wheeling in a heavy rack of clothes, putting a thick duvet over the window, and another on the floor, and propping up heavy cushions at the reflection points (thankfully my girlfriend didn't come home while I was doing all this... she thinks my hi fi habit is bad enough as it is). The room sounded much less echoey, but the system still sounded too bright to me. I think it's not helped by a combination of an analytical source, transparent amplification and the tipped-up presentation of the Proacs. The system can sound stunning with some music, e.g. laid back jazz and folk, but orchestral strings can be quite wearing and rock sounds lean.
 

ellisdj

New member
Dec 11, 2008
377
1
0
I had a room same size carpet curtains big material sofa and it was still way too live reverb of 0.7ms.

Maybe something a little more dedicated if you can get it past the other half will help more.

If that's not possible maybe single driver speakers might be worth looking into. different but might work the best.
 
The current KEF range and Amphion loudspeakers work really well in bright/reflective rooms. The dispersion of these speakers makes it harder to detect blatant first reflection points, and don’t seem to ‘excite’ rooms like most other speakers. The Heco Direkt Einklangs also avoid wall reflections as they’re more focused to the sweet spot.
 

Macspur

Well-known member
May 3, 2010
77
0
18,540
jas0_0 said:
Macspur said:
I see, the 30.1 is still a very well thought of model. The P3's are a small stand mount and everything I've ever read about them and when having spoken to owners, it's always been glowing reports... well suited to a small listening area in particular.

If your budget could stretch to a used pair of SHL5+ you wouldn't look back.

Cno is the resident Kef expert here, so will hand over to him for that.

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com
Thanks Mac - I think the size of the SHL5+ might be hard to justify to my better half...! I will try to find some P3s as well. One thought, will the 400wpc of my Nord Power amp be massive overkill for them?
Ah yes, 400W could be a bit overkill for the little P3's

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com
 

emcc_3

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2008
59
11
18,545
I can second KEF R series for reflective rooms. I have a set of R700's in my room which has tiled floors and a lot of glass so quite refelective. The KEF's sound warm in the room in a way my Monitor Audios never did.
 

Strictly Stereo

Well-known member
Jan 29, 2018
2
0
520
Are your speakers pointed straight out into the room or are they toed in towards the listening position? Try a little less toe in if you haven't already. Maybe consider adding Graham Audio to your list. You might like the LS6, which is a modern stand-mount speaker with a retro aesthetic.
 

jas0_0

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2015
17
0
4,520
Strictly Stereo said:
Are your speakers pointed straight out into the room or are they toed in towards the listening position? Try a little less toe in if you haven't already. Maybe consider adding Graham Audio to your list. You might like the LS6, which is a modern stand-mount speaker with a retro aesthetic.
Hi - I will will play with toe-in - hadn't thought of that. I didn't know about Graham Audio - they look great, thanks.

J
 

jas0_0

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2015
17
0
4,520
davidf said:
The current KEF range and Amphion loudspeakers work really well in bright/reflective rooms. The dispersion of these speakers makes it harder to detect blatant first reflection points, and don’t seem to ‘excite’ rooms like most other speakers. The Heco Direkt Einklangs also avoid wall reflections as they’re more focused to the sweet spot.
Thanks David, these are all great suggestions, but they're all just a bit too modern and glossy for our sitting room. I know sound should come first... Maybe I'll take another look at these when I can afford a separate listening room!
 

jas0_0

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2015
17
0
4,520
Macspur said:
Ah yes, 400W could be a bit overkill for the little P3's

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com
I've just been reading the amp recommendations on the HUG, which seems to suggest that anything will work ok and so long as I don't turn up the volume too much, the high wattage will just be additional headroom. Also the P3ESRs seem to be quite insensitive - in fact less sensitive than my Proacs.

Though do you think the high power will negatively impact on the sound, perhaps being too controlling?

Maybe it would be worth also trialling an alternative power amp at the same time - the Croft 7R would seem an obvious partner to my 25R pre...
 

Macspur

Well-known member
May 3, 2010
77
0
18,540
jas0_0 said:
Macspur said:
Ah yes, 400W could be a bit overkill for the little P3's

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com
I've just been reading the amp recommendations on the HUG, which seems to suggest that anything will work ok and so long as I don't turn up the volume too much, the high wattage will just be additional headroom. Also the P3ESRs seem to be quite insensitive - in fact less sensitive than my Proacs.

Though do you think the high power will negatively impact on the sound, perhaps being too controlling?

Maybe it would be worth also trialling an alternative power amp at the same time - the Croft 7R would seem an obvious partner to my 25R pre...
Quite possibly.

Croft and Harbeth are often paired with excellent results, so if you could change the power amp, all the better.

Although, unless you play your music very loud you should be fine, without negative affects.

Are you able to demo before buying?

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
8
0
jas0_0 said:
Though do you think the high power will negatively impact on the sound, perhaps being too controlling?

Maybe it would be worth also trialling an alternative power amp at the same time - the Croft 7R would seem an obvious partner to my 25R pre...
I'm not Mac, who will answer for himself - but my view is:

- You don't "need" that amount of power for the small Harbeths, but it will make them sing, provided you don't over do the volume.

- It's better to have an over-powered amp, than an under-powered one, that is pushed into clipping.

- You certainly have the option of changing amps. IIRC ProAc were voiced with Valves in mind, so "can" sound a bit sharp if not carefully matched (or in a reflective room). Amps you might consider, as well as Croft:

Sugden

Pathos

Luxman

Electrocompaniet

Icon Audio

Unison Research

Jadis
 

Macspur

Well-known member
May 3, 2010
77
0
18,540
CnoEvil said:
jas0_0 said:
Though do you think the high power will negatively impact on the sound, perhaps being too controlling?

Maybe it would be worth also trialling an alternative power amp at the same time - the Croft 7R would seem an obvious partner to my 25R pre...
I'm not Mac, who will answer for himself - but my view is:

- You don't "need" that amount of power for the small Harbeths, but it will make them sing, provided you don't over do the volume.

- It's better to have an over-powered amp, than an under-powered one, that is pushed into clipping.

- You certainly have the option of changing amps. IIRC ProAc were voiced with Valves in mind, so "can" sound a bit sharp if not carefully matched (or in a reflective room). Amps you might consider, as well as Croft:

Sugden

Pathos

Luxman

Electrocompaniet

Icon Audio

Unison Research

Jadis
Good advice from Cno as ever.

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com
 

jas0_0

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2015
17
0
4,520
Thanks Mac and Cno - really helpful advice. I will see if I can book a demo somewhere I can hear Croft, Spendor and Harbeth, or ideally get a home demo in my shouty flat.
 
jas0_0 said:
Thanks David, these are all great suggestions, but they're all just a bit too modern and glossy for our sitting room. I know sound should come first... Maybe I'll take another look at these when I can afford a separate listening room!
I wouldn’t say there was anything “glossy” about the Amphions - they’re all satin finishes! Unless you meant something else :)
 

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