i have read on some of these forums of people suffering from floatinf blacks on plasma tvs can anyone explain what it looks like i have developed a symtom where three quarters of the wat up the screen from left to right i have a black band which is darker then the rest of the screen or is this a symptom of my plasma still settling down its had about 200 hours of use and i know that they say between 2-300 hours, could it be where some of the phospers have settled and some are still burning brighter any help would be appreciated
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CES Hands On - Samsung HW-Q990F review
FLOATING BLACKS ON TV SCREEN
- Thread starter 3937edwards
- Start date
If you google Floating blacks, there are tons of examples. also videos on you tube
Also what TV do you have?
Also what TV do you have?
Oldboy
Well-known member
3937edwards:i have read on some of these forums of people suffering from floatinf blacks on plasma tvs can anyone explain what it looks like i have developed a symtom where three quarters of the wat up the screen from left to right i have a black band which is darker then the rest of the screen or is this a symptom of my plasma still settling down its had about 200 hours of use and i know that they say between 2-300 hours, could it be where some of the phospers have settled and some are still burning brighter any help would be appreciated
Andrew,
I can very confidently tell you that you are not getting floating blacks on your plasma! Floating blacks only occur with differing levels of brightness and contrast and are seen as an effect when the entire screen seems to change the level of brightness and contrast on the fly to a level beyond your initial settings, often to a level that is very off-putting! I have suffered it to some extent myself but only when the tv is in 'normal' mode and when in THX or cinema there is no problem. The best way of explaining it is that it seems like one of those modes that constantly examine the lighting conditions in your room and change the picture levels accordingly is in constant operation with nothing you can do about it.
I can't attempt to explain your issue without a little more info. When you say 3 quarters of the way up and left to right is that horizontally or vertically?? Is the black band a definate visible line of black or just a discolouration? Boy you have been unlucky so far with your tv's (just like myself) let's just hope we can sort out this issue aswell eh....what it sounds like is a similar issue i had with my 1st faulty G20 but without extra info i can't be sure.
Best wishes
Nick.
Andrew,
I can very confidently tell you that you are not getting floating blacks on your plasma! Floating blacks only occur with differing levels of brightness and contrast and are seen as an effect when the entire screen seems to change the level of brightness and contrast on the fly to a level beyond your initial settings, often to a level that is very off-putting! I have suffered it to some extent myself but only when the tv is in 'normal' mode and when in THX or cinema there is no problem. The best way of explaining it is that it seems like one of those modes that constantly examine the lighting conditions in your room and change the picture levels accordingly is in constant operation with nothing you can do about it.
I can't attempt to explain your issue without a little more info. When you say 3 quarters of the way up and left to right is that horizontally or vertically?? Is the black band a definate visible line of black or just a discolouration? Boy you have been unlucky so far with your tv's (just like myself) let's just hope we can sort out this issue aswell eh....what it sounds like is a similar issue i had with my 1st faulty G20 but without extra info i can't be sure.
Best wishes
Nick.
hi nick the line is horizontal and more like a discolouration which is only visable on dark scenes thats why i was thinking maybe thats where some of the phospors have settled and thats why it looks darker then rest of screen i hope so let it not be a fault eh! i now have it on standard setting contrast at 75 cell light 14 brightness 45 colour 45 and all picture processing of i cant get on with movie or relax mode so settled with standard mode so i dont think its to do with the settings so hoping its to do with the tv still settling down regards andrew
Oldboy
Well-known member
Andrew,
Well from that info i can confidently state that it's not what i was thinking! To be totally honest i would be worried at this point but not to the point of returning or repairing. My advice would be to give it a week or so to see if it settles down, it could well be the cells settling down but i doubt it and it seems it's not down to calibration as you have it in the right mode but the settings mean nothing to me as i don't have the same tv but seeming as we've talked about this before i would say it's safe to assume they are not at fault either.
Your only saving grace is that you bought from a recognised retailer so any problems should be dealt with quickly. How long has this line been there for? Oh and one final question, where is the tv situated? ie do you have it wall mounted or on the stand and what is the proximity to radiators and windows etc and do you have other equipment near to the tv? Any of these could be a factor!
Well from that info i can confidently state that it's not what i was thinking! To be totally honest i would be worried at this point but not to the point of returning or repairing. My advice would be to give it a week or so to see if it settles down, it could well be the cells settling down but i doubt it and it seems it's not down to calibration as you have it in the right mode but the settings mean nothing to me as i don't have the same tv but seeming as we've talked about this before i would say it's safe to assume they are not at fault either.
Your only saving grace is that you bought from a recognised retailer so any problems should be dealt with quickly. How long has this line been there for? Oh and one final question, where is the tv situated? ie do you have it wall mounted or on the stand and what is the proximity to radiators and windows etc and do you have other equipment near to the tv? Any of these could be a factor!
robjcooper
Well-known member
Andrew, Just a few questions re: your problem.
Does the 'discolouration' run from the top of the screen to three quarters of the way down or is it a separate floating band ? Have you checked to see if there is a similar one at the bottom of the screen ? Do you watch a lot of 2.35:1 Blu rays or films on your Sky/Virgin source? What I'm wondering is whether you are seeing the image retention of the 2.35:1 mask from films you've been watching. Unfortunately, Samsung's plasmas do appear to have worse image retention problems than anyone else. Just as a test, try running the scrolling wipe in 'Picture Options/Screen Burn Protection/Scrolling'. Leave it running for at least an hour and see if that removes the problem.
Rob
Does the 'discolouration' run from the top of the screen to three quarters of the way down or is it a separate floating band ? Have you checked to see if there is a similar one at the bottom of the screen ? Do you watch a lot of 2.35:1 Blu rays or films on your Sky/Virgin source? What I'm wondering is whether you are seeing the image retention of the 2.35:1 mask from films you've been watching. Unfortunately, Samsung's plasmas do appear to have worse image retention problems than anyone else. Just as a test, try running the scrolling wipe in 'Picture Options/Screen Burn Protection/Scrolling'. Leave it running for at least an hour and see if that removes the problem.
Rob
Oldboy
Well-known member
robjcooper:
Andrew, Just a few questions re: your problem.
Does the 'discolouration' run from the top of the screen to three quarters of the way down or is it a separate floating band ? Have you checked to see if there is a similar one at the bottom of the screen ? Do you watch a lot of 2.35:1 Blu rays or films on your Sky/Virgin source? What I'm wondering is whether you are seeing the image retention of the 2.35:1 mask from films you've been watching. Unfortunately, Samsung's plasmas do appear to have worse image retention problems than anyone else. Just as a test, try running the scrolling wipe in 'Picture Options/Screen Burn Protection/Scrolling'. Leave it running for at least an hour and see if that removes the problem.
Rob
Andrew,
This was exactly what i was going to suggest...perhaps a result of the black bands but Rob beat me to it! Try the built in screen wipe or if you get no results with that then try the old terrestial signal trick, unplug the aerial connection and use the snowy interference signal that you get when no signal is being input for a few hours to wipe the screen. Depending on the ammount of retention it can take extended sessions with either technique to get the screen back to normal, as a rule it takes twice as long to remove any retention than it did to get the retention in the first place.
If neither method clears up the screen atall then you may well have a problem i'm afraid
Andrew, Just a few questions re: your problem.
Does the 'discolouration' run from the top of the screen to three quarters of the way down or is it a separate floating band ? Have you checked to see if there is a similar one at the bottom of the screen ? Do you watch a lot of 2.35:1 Blu rays or films on your Sky/Virgin source? What I'm wondering is whether you are seeing the image retention of the 2.35:1 mask from films you've been watching. Unfortunately, Samsung's plasmas do appear to have worse image retention problems than anyone else. Just as a test, try running the scrolling wipe in 'Picture Options/Screen Burn Protection/Scrolling'. Leave it running for at least an hour and see if that removes the problem.
Rob
Andrew,
This was exactly what i was going to suggest...perhaps a result of the black bands but Rob beat me to it! Try the built in screen wipe or if you get no results with that then try the old terrestial signal trick, unplug the aerial connection and use the snowy interference signal that you get when no signal is being input for a few hours to wipe the screen. Depending on the ammount of retention it can take extended sessions with either technique to get the screen back to normal, as a rule it takes twice as long to remove any retention than it did to get the retention in the first place.
If neither method clears up the screen atall then you may well have a problem i'm afraid
Do you really have to maintain a modern plasma like this? sounds like more hassle than it's worth.
hi nick been there for about 2 weeks my tv is wall mounted with my blueray player and sky hd box on a unit 8" below the tv my window and radiator are about 4 metres away cheers
hi to all yes have used this option and it does clear it up but surley i shouldent have to use this function everytime the tv is watched ? or is it because the tv is settling down as ive said its had about 200 hours of use maybe i have the contrast set to high at 75% and thats why its happening
hi rob no its a seperate band and there is none at the bottom its basically where you get alot of bright scenes when watching films i.e skys and bright scenery hence why i said i could have contrast to high at 75% and its just image retention the tv has been used for about 200hours so maybe still running in
robjcooper
Well-known member
D' cipher
By saying maintain, you seem to imply that this has to be done all the time. It's a function which is there to help in the rare case that a static or part static content of an image has been left on the screen for an exceptional period of time - mum deciding to take the kids out for the day, before the end of a V+ recording they were watching and not checking the TV is off - thus leaving the large immobile bright centre positioned menu on the screen for 12 hours, is a prime example ! - The Samsungs do seem to have slightly worse retention than most of the other plasmas, but in normal use, if it does appear, it usually goes within 15 to 30 secs, which, when changing channels, is either 1 commercial's worth of something I don't want or need, or someone in presentation waffling on about what's up next. And to my eyes, I've not yet seen an LCD (either LED or CCFL backlit) which gives me a picture as near to a CRT as plasma does.
And it's probably a lot less hassle than for example having to trek back to the local store to replace an LCD screen for the third time because of uneven backlighting in one corner !
By saying maintain, you seem to imply that this has to be done all the time. It's a function which is there to help in the rare case that a static or part static content of an image has been left on the screen for an exceptional period of time - mum deciding to take the kids out for the day, before the end of a V+ recording they were watching and not checking the TV is off - thus leaving the large immobile bright centre positioned menu on the screen for 12 hours, is a prime example ! - The Samsungs do seem to have slightly worse retention than most of the other plasmas, but in normal use, if it does appear, it usually goes within 15 to 30 secs, which, when changing channels, is either 1 commercial's worth of something I don't want or need, or someone in presentation waffling on about what's up next. And to my eyes, I've not yet seen an LCD (either LED or CCFL backlit) which gives me a picture as near to a CRT as plasma does.
And it's probably a lot less hassle than for example having to trek back to the local store to replace an LCD screen for the third time because of uneven backlighting in one corner !
robjcooper
Well-known member
39,
Trying to get my head around exactly what you are seeing. Is it a perfectly defined straight horizontal line, or does it follow the bright edge contours of the image you've just seen ? If there is a bright area of picture at the bottom (or any other area) of the screen, do you get the same effect?
What are your cell light and brightness settings and do you have any of the processing options on (sharpness, edge enhancement, noise filters etc). If you do, turn them off. Try Cell light around 10 and brightness 50, see if that lessens it.
If it persists, I'd suggest you call Samsung's helpline (don't bother with their email system, it is totally hopeless). I found them to be exceptionally helpful when I had a problem with another item. They will arrange for an engineer to come and have a look at your screen - if it does get to that point, make sure you have something on hand to show them exactly what you are seeing.
Let us know if the above is of any help.
Rob
Trying to get my head around exactly what you are seeing. Is it a perfectly defined straight horizontal line, or does it follow the bright edge contours of the image you've just seen ? If there is a bright area of picture at the bottom (or any other area) of the screen, do you get the same effect?
What are your cell light and brightness settings and do you have any of the processing options on (sharpness, edge enhancement, noise filters etc). If you do, turn them off. Try Cell light around 10 and brightness 50, see if that lessens it.
If it persists, I'd suggest you call Samsung's helpline (don't bother with their email system, it is totally hopeless). I found them to be exceptionally helpful when I had a problem with another item. They will arrange for an engineer to come and have a look at your screen - if it does get to that point, make sure you have something on hand to show them exactly what you are seeing.
Let us know if the above is of any help.
Rob
no its not a defined straight line and only that part of the screen i have my cell light at 14 contrast 75 and brightness at 45 i have no processing on
Oldboy
Well-known member
Andrew,
So from what you are saying i take it that the built in screen wash clears the problem up at least temporary? And that the problem persists to the point where you need to continually use the wash to remove the line, is that correct?
I've done some looking on the net over the last hour or so and it seems your settings are about right from opinions on other forums but have you tried what Rob suggested and tried dialling down the settings to see if things improve and if you have was there any improvement?
I really don't want to be the bearer of bad news here but if all this fails then you must have an issue
not what you want to hear i know but it may well be time to get back on the phone to your retailer (first point of contact) and then Samsung to see if it's a known issue but take Rob's advice and phone don't email! I truly hope that the issue clears by itself but i'm not optomistic my friend...i fear you may have another faulty tv, and i know how you must feel oh too well!
So from what you are saying i take it that the built in screen wash clears the problem up at least temporary? And that the problem persists to the point where you need to continually use the wash to remove the line, is that correct?
I've done some looking on the net over the last hour or so and it seems your settings are about right from opinions on other forums but have you tried what Rob suggested and tried dialling down the settings to see if things improve and if you have was there any improvement?
I really don't want to be the bearer of bad news here but if all this fails then you must have an issue
hi nick been a couple of days and hey presto the issue that i have had has cleared up so i dont know what it was i will just keep a eye on it one more question though when watching sky 3D only i have to use the motion judder tech otherwise the picture judders but on all other sources like blueray and HD i dont is this most proberly to to with the 3d still in its infancy cheers andrew
Oldboy
Well-known member
Hello Andrew,
That's excellent news that it has cleared up! Phew no need for it to go back then, that's a releif i'm sure. That's a very odd issue with sky 3D that you have and from what you have said i would say it's an issue with the sky box because if it wasn't surely it would affect the motion with all sources, bluray, dvd and tv.
Unfortunately i don't have sky in any form (don't like the idea of Mr Muroch getting even richer from me lol) so can't give you any advice regarding settings all i would say is that make sure the box is set up correctly. I'm sure i recall some settings on the sky box causing issues with some tv's so i would suggest you look into that a little more and perhaps mention it in your new thread as i'm sure someone out there will have the answer
Sorry i can't be of more help this time but any sky issues are beyond my knowledge now, i used to install sky for a living but that was quite a few years ago now and long before 3D was on the horizon so i wouldn't even have a guess at your issue...it could be any number of things tbh but i hope you get an answer soon!
All the best
That's excellent news that it has cleared up! Phew no need for it to go back then, that's a releif i'm sure. That's a very odd issue with sky 3D that you have and from what you have said i would say it's an issue with the sky box because if it wasn't surely it would affect the motion with all sources, bluray, dvd and tv.
Unfortunately i don't have sky in any form (don't like the idea of Mr Muroch getting even richer from me lol) so can't give you any advice regarding settings all i would say is that make sure the box is set up correctly. I'm sure i recall some settings on the sky box causing issues with some tv's so i would suggest you look into that a little more and perhaps mention it in your new thread as i'm sure someone out there will have the answer
Sorry i can't be of more help this time but any sky issues are beyond my knowledge now, i used to install sky for a living but that was quite a few years ago now and long before 3D was on the horizon so i wouldn't even have a guess at your issue...it could be any number of things tbh but i hope you get an answer soon!
All the best
robjcooper
Well-known member
39,
Phew ! Glad your little retention problem has cleared up !
As for your juddering, have you got a 3D Bluray and if so do you need the MJC to watch that in 3D? Have you tried playing a 2D Bluray using the 2D-3D converter, and does it need the MJC on that ? When you're watching Sky3D, does it do it on both movie channels and sport channels ?
Rob
Phew ! Glad your little retention problem has cleared up !
As for your juddering, have you got a 3D Bluray and if so do you need the MJC to watch that in 3D? Have you tried playing a 2D Bluray using the 2D-3D converter, and does it need the MJC on that ? When you're watching Sky3D, does it do it on both movie channels and sport channels ?
Rob
hi rob i do have a 3d blueray player but as have not watched any films as for sky 3d it seems only to do it on football so maybe its an issue with the broadcast from sky or the box or maybe the hdmi cable which is a monster m1000hd i cant remember what the speed rate in gbts this is maybe its not up to the job
robjcooper
Well-known member
Hi 39,
It won't be the cable as Sky's 3D signal is a 1080i side by side one which has the same data requirement as all their other channels and will be fine with a 1.3 version HDMI cable - the necessity for a higher speed cable is for true full resolution 3D blu-ray which sends twice the number of full resolution frames per second - one 1920 x 1080 left eye frame followed by a 1920 x 1080 right eye one - so the data throughput is doubled, hence the higher rating of the 1.4 cable. My gut feeling is that this may be a de-interlacing problem and is why I asked about whether you got the problem on football or movies - the football will be being shot interlaced, whereas the movie channels, being film, are all natively progressive. I don't have Sky so I can't test my theory or give you any suggestions for any alternative settings or menus in the Sky box which may help and as I have no 3D source I can't try anything on the TV either, but I'll have a think if there is anything apart from the MJC which may alleviate the problem. However, if the MJC helps and doesn't introduce any other artifacts, then it seems like that may be the answer for now.
It would be interesting to see if anyone else with Sky 3D with a different samsung 3D model or a 3D screen from a different manufacturer has seen any judder.
Rob
It won't be the cable as Sky's 3D signal is a 1080i side by side one which has the same data requirement as all their other channels and will be fine with a 1.3 version HDMI cable - the necessity for a higher speed cable is for true full resolution 3D blu-ray which sends twice the number of full resolution frames per second - one 1920 x 1080 left eye frame followed by a 1920 x 1080 right eye one - so the data throughput is doubled, hence the higher rating of the 1.4 cable. My gut feeling is that this may be a de-interlacing problem and is why I asked about whether you got the problem on football or movies - the football will be being shot interlaced, whereas the movie channels, being film, are all natively progressive. I don't have Sky so I can't test my theory or give you any suggestions for any alternative settings or menus in the Sky box which may help and as I have no 3D source I can't try anything on the TV either, but I'll have a think if there is anything apart from the MJC which may alleviate the problem. However, if the MJC helps and doesn't introduce any other artifacts, then it seems like that may be the answer for now.
It would be interesting to see if anyone else with Sky 3D with a different samsung 3D model or a 3D screen from a different manufacturer has seen any judder.
Rob
robjcooper
Well-known member
39,
As I said before, if the problem is only on your Sky 3D, then as far as I can see, a 1.4 cable will make no difference. The Sky3D signal consists of a standard HD 1920x1080 signal like all the other SkyHD channels. For the 3D, the left half of each frame is a horizontally squeezed full frame left eye image and the other half is a squeezed full frame right eye image (the side by side image you see before you switch on the 3D menu and where everyone looks tall and thin). This is a standard 1920 x1080 image that your Sky box sends to the TV. The TV's 3D decoding hardware/software takes this signal and unsqueezes each half of that frame to give you 2 full frames (albeit at half the resolution), one for the left eye and one for the right eye which are then fed to each eye consecutively to give you the 3D effect. The Sky box has nothing to do with any of this decoding so a 1.3 cable will be fine. I personally am still convinced that it is something to with the TV's de-interlacing, but as I don't have Sky or any other 3D source I can't put my theory to the test.You could try switching your TV to Game mode (which removes some rather over exuberant processing which you cannot disable anywhere else) and see if that lessens or removes the problem. However, if you're still convinced that a 1.4 cable will help, then honestly, don't spend a fortune, just get one from That Cable and see if the problem goes away.
Keep us informed
Rob
As I said before, if the problem is only on your Sky 3D, then as far as I can see, a 1.4 cable will make no difference. The Sky3D signal consists of a standard HD 1920x1080 signal like all the other SkyHD channels. For the 3D, the left half of each frame is a horizontally squeezed full frame left eye image and the other half is a squeezed full frame right eye image (the side by side image you see before you switch on the 3D menu and where everyone looks tall and thin). This is a standard 1920 x1080 image that your Sky box sends to the TV. The TV's 3D decoding hardware/software takes this signal and unsqueezes each half of that frame to give you 2 full frames (albeit at half the resolution), one for the left eye and one for the right eye which are then fed to each eye consecutively to give you the 3D effect. The Sky box has nothing to do with any of this decoding so a 1.3 cable will be fine. I personally am still convinced that it is something to with the TV's de-interlacing, but as I don't have Sky or any other 3D source I can't put my theory to the test.You could try switching your TV to Game mode (which removes some rather over exuberant processing which you cannot disable anywhere else) and see if that lessens or removes the problem. However, if you're still convinced that a 1.4 cable will help, then honestly, don't spend a fortune, just get one from That Cable and see if the problem goes away.
Keep us informed
Rob
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