TV shootout - Philips 9002 OLED Vs Samsung Q7 QLED @ BAFTA

[bigboss]

I attended a TV shootout at BAFTA yesterday organised by Philips with AV forums to compare their 9002 OLED TV with similarly priced Samsung Q7 QLED (55 inches). Both TVs were calibrated by Steve Withers and Phil Hilton who were also present. 25 attendees, we compared 9 clips including HDR. It was very interesting!! My impressions:

1) OLED wipes the floor off QLED when it comes to blacks and contrast. There was a night scene from planet earth 2 where only the hyenas' eyes were visible. OLED was stunning while QLED was a poor grey.

2) Motion and juddering on both is bad until you employ their own processing. Philips is better than Samsung after processing. Still not as good as plasma (although this argument is pointless now).

3) Samsung performs well on bright scenes and colours but Philips was slightly better.

4) Philips was a touch sharper than Samsung.

5) Screen uniformity was superb in the Philips but there was quite a bit of clouding in the Samsung.

6) In HDR, the bright bits were a bit brighter in the Samsung but felt as if that was to compensate for poor blacks. Philips looked far better despite being "only" 900 nits.

7) In bright light, the differences are less pronounced.

8 ) Philips screen is more reflective than Samsung.

9) Love the ambilight in Philips, and love the fact that it can coordinate your Hue lights in the room for a more pronounced effect (you can tell the TV which Hue bulbs are located where for better effect). The ambilight can react to either picture or sound, or any way you like.

My next TV (whenever) will definitely be a Philips OLED due to ambilight.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I attended a TV shootout at BAFTA yesterday organised by Philips with AV forums to compare their 9002 OLED TV with similarly priced Samsung Q7 QLED (55 inches). Both TVs were calibrated by Steve Withers and Phil Hilton who were also present. 25 attendees, we compared 9 clips including HDR. It was very interesting!! My impressions:

1) OLED wipes the floor off QLED when it comes to blacks and contrast. There was a night scene from planet earth 2 where only the hyenas' eyes were visible. OLED was stunning while QLED was a poor grey.

2) Motion and juddering on both is bad until you employ their own processing. Philips is better than Samsung after processing. Still not as good as plasma (although this argument is pointless now).

3) Samsung performs well on bright scenes and colours but Philips was slightly better.

4) Philips was a touch sharper than Samsung.

5) Screen uniformity was superb in the Philips but there was quite a bit of clouding in the Samsung.

6) In HDR, the bright bits were a bit brighter in the Samsung but felt as if that was to compensate for poor blacks. Philips looked far better despite being "only" 900 nits.

7) In bright light, the differences are less pronounced.

8 ) Philips screen is more reflective than Samsung.

9) Love the ambilight in Philips, and love the fact that it can coordinate your Hue lights in the room for a more pronounced effect (you can tell the TV which Hue bulbs are located where for better effect). The ambilight can react to either picture or sound, or any way you like.

My next TV (whenever) will definitely be a Philips OLED due to ambilight.

Was the Philips really 900 nits? And which Philips is this, first or second generation? Cheers.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Did the Ambilight work well in the dark, compared to the original LCDs or was it just a thin strip? Cheers

 

[strapped for cash]

Was the Philips really 900 nits?

Good question. I thought all OLED televisions to date topped out at roughly 700 nits.

 

[strapped for cash]

I find point #6 especially interesting.

LCD/LED/FALD/QLED* are sold on their ability to display HDR content, with ever higher peak brightness required.

As discussed elsewhere, however, there's no getting around LCD/LED/FALD/QLED's limited native contrast. The higher a LCD-based television's peak brightness, the more manifest this limitation becomes.

Couple this observation with a lack of desirable HDR content, and the arguments for LCD/LED/FALD/QLED become even weaker. And that's before we note the gulf between HDR mastering standards (4,000 nits) and any available technology's peak brightness.

* I'm referring to Samsung's available "QLED" technology.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Here's the Philips looked at by WHF:

https://www.whathifi.com/philips/55pos9002/review

It is the second generation one, I actually quite like the look of this, not sure if I would trust Philips though.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Was the Philips really 900 nits?

Good question. I thought all OLED televisions to date topped out at roughly 700 nits.

Yep.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

750 nits according to this review:

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/philips-55pos9002-oled-tv

How does it compare to the LG and Sony Oleds BB?

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Any mention on price of the Philips? And is it just John Lewis selling again?

 

[strapped for cash]

@Gel

I have no reason not to trust Philips. It does look nice, not that I'm encouraging you to make a downpayment.

I'd love to see a dedictated OLED TV shootout, including models from LG, Loewe, Panasonic, Philips and Sony. Philips' image processing might give their TV the edge.

@BB, did Steve et al. comment on how well the Philips calibrated?

 

[Deleted member 2457]

@Gel

I have no reason not to trust Philips. It does look nice, not that I'm encouraging you to make a downpayment.

I'd love to see a dedictated OLED TV shootout, including models from LG, Loewe, Panasonic, Philips and Sony. Philips' image processing might give their TV the edge.

@BB, did Steve et al. comment on how well the Philips calibrated?

Hi Strapped, yep, I have a bit of a past with Philips TVs, I had one once and the ambilight and it broke on one side and got screen burn. Went to buy another one about 5 years later the Philips 40pf9704 and it was rubbish and managed in the end to get a refund. Not saying their new Oleds are the same though, obviously they are probably LG Oled panels. I do like ambilight though and I like LG TVs.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

A load of Philips 42pfl9664 TVs got refunded by owners too.

 

[bigboss]

You're right, it's 750 nits. Danny Tack (Philips TV guru) who ran the shootout must've got confused.

Steve Withers didn't say how easy or difficult calibrating was. It isn't easy calibrating HDR though, as standards haven't been agreed yet; that's my understanding at least.

A lot has happened to Philips since then. The TV division was sold to TCL and I think it's back with Philips now.

Ambilight was very impressive from what I saw.

 

[Series1boy]

The thing is why is there a big thing about the number nits and brightnes? When you have a Tv calibrated isn't it darker any way, mine is?

 

[Series1boy]

My next TV (whenever) will definitely be a Philips OLED due to ambilight.

i never even considered the Phillips... is there a 65" version of OLED?

 

[Deleted member 2457]

My next TV (whenever) will definitely be a Philips OLED due to ambilight.

i never even considered the Phillips... is there a 65" version of OLED?

I thought BB was joking when he said that.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

The thing is why is there a big thing about the number nits and brightnes? When you have a Tv calibrated isn't it darker any way, mine is?

Yes, I think you are right.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I should really get mine calibrated.

 

[Series1boy]

I should really get mine calibrated.

If it's a keeper, then I lthink it's a good investment. If not, then don't

 

[Series1boy]

Just checked Philips website and they only do 55" for OLED

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Just checked Philips website and they only do 55" for OLED

I think John Lewis only had about 10 Philips OLEDs in stock of the 55-inch, so I don't think there's many about. Yep, just 55-inch ones.

 

[bigboss]

My next TV (whenever) will definitely be a Philips OLED due to ambilight.

i never even considered the Phillips... is there a 65" version of OLED?

I thought BB was joking when he said that.  

I'm not joking. I'm not in the market for a TV just yet. The VT65 is running fine and I have no plans to upgrade to 4K just yet. The first thing to upgrade to 4K would be my projector, in probably couple of years. When it's time to upgrade my TV, it'll most likely be a Philips OLED.

 

[strapped for cash]

R.E. calibration:

@Series1boy -- a HD "night" calibration is based on ISF guidelines. These guidelines mirror high definition mastering standards, and most TVs can produce greater brightness than these standards require.

The same rules don't apply with HDR, because HDR content is mastered to brightness levels no current technology can reproduce.

In other words, televisions have more than enough headroom for HD, and nothing like enough headroom for HDR.

@BB -- I think you're right about HDR calibration.

Since different manufacturers use different HDR algorithms (that handle contrast in different ways), what's considered accurate is perhaps less clearly defined than with HD.

I guess the approach to HDR calibration is the same -- set brightness and contrast to recommended levels, then fine-tune greyscale and colour. Calman have released HDR calibration software, based around Rec.2020, so there must be agreed standards. Performance among calibrated HDR televisions may differ a fair bit, however.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

My next TV (whenever) will definitely be a Philips OLED due to ambilight.

i never even considered the Phillips... is there a 65" version of OLED?

I thought BB was joking when he said that.

I'm not joking. I'm not in the market for a TV just yet. The VT65 is running fine and I have no plans to upgrade to 4K just yet. The first thing to upgrade to 4K would be my projector, in probably couple of years. When it's time to upgrade my TV, it'll most likely be a Philips OLED.

I am a fan of ambilight too, I love watching it in the dark. In fact I still miss my Philips 32-inch LCD, I never seem happy anymore! I guess the yearly upgrades are just not enough.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I am waiting until a Oled gets 10 out of 10 for black level and contrast again. I won't buy any less, I don't see the point.