Finding my home cinema sound lacking

[nugget2014]

Seen fast and furious 7 at cineworld in IMAX today. my cinema sounds good but when i compare it to IMAX it sounds rubbish! bass can be both subble and explosive in IMAX and it sounds a lot more controlled but can still be powerful. also i miss the feeling of the bass when it hits on your body which i dont get in my setup

i have a dali ikon sub mk2 and dali zensor 3's and the matching centre. its set to 80hz crossover and i have it running hot because i like a lot of bass. when i demo'd subs at superfi and richer sounds the dali sub e-12f is what made me fall in love with subwoofers for films. felt it impact your body (even though the sub was about 6ft away and not in a corner) and then when i got one in my home didnt feel it at all just get impact and the room shaking.

any tips? ive posted countless threads in the past but i cant settle without getting the best from something i own and i paid a lot of money for my setup! its in the best possible place in the room after countless moving is it the actual subwoofer? maybe my next upgrade will be the svs pb-12 or sb-12..

 

[nugget2014]

cannot edt post. i meant sb-2000 and pb-2000

 

[Andrewjvt]

Have you tried sitting the sub on your lap?

The speakers and amps at the imax must cost a fortune compared to anything us guys could afford.

Maybe a more powerful sub would suit you better

 

[nugget2014]

Have you tried sitting the sub on your lap?

The speakers and amps at the imax must cost a fortune compared to anything us guys could afford.

Maybe a more powerful sub would suit you better

what subs could you think of that would be an upgrade over the dali ikon sub mk2? also sealed or ported for 75/25 music movies don't sealed perform better in the 40hz region where you feel it in your chest etc?

 

[bigboss]

Sealed is the way to go. SVS SB-2000 is a brilliant subwoofer. Try to arrange a home demo.

 

[MickyBlue]

BK subs are great value for money as they only sell direct which cuts out the middle man giving you a better deal, depends on the size you want and your budget...

http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers.htm

 

[nugget2014]

BK subs are great value for money as they only sell direct which cuts out the middle man giving you a better deal, depends on the size you want and your budget...

http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers.htm

i think a bk at this point would be a downgrade..at the best an equal sub

 

[nugget2014]

Sealed is the way to go. SVS SB-2000 is a brilliant subwoofer. Try to arrange a home demo.

how would you compare the sb and pb-2000's each have their pro's and con's im guessing. ive looked online for reviews and such but cant pick out a solid reason why the sb would be the one to choose..

 

[bigboss]

Both are same subwoofers. SB is sealed while PB is ported. Ported subwoofers can be fussy with placement and tricky to setup. Sealed subwoofer is the way to go for you.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Nothing wrong with your set up.
If you cannot get both subtle bass and room shaking bass, you have set it up wrong.
How are you powering your speakers? AV receiver?

 

[nugget2014]

Nothing wrong with your set up. If you cannot get both subtle bass and room shaking bass, you have set it up wrong. How are you powering your speakers? AV receiver?

sony str-dn1040 av receiver. have it calibrated but maybe its just the volume level i have it set to. i have it on 70% gain (on the sub itself) and +10db on the individual speaker db adjustment and depending on what i feel like i sometimes have the equaliser of the bass on +10db too which is +20db "hot" although normally i turn it off so its just +10db

 

[michael hoy]

Nothing wrong with your set up. If you cannot get both subtle bass and room shaking bass, you have set it up wrong. How are you powering your speakers? AV receiver?

sony str-dn1040 av receiver. have it calibrated but maybe its just the volume level i have it set to. i have it on 70% gain (on the sub itself) and +10db on the individual speaker db adjustment and depending on what i feel like i sometimes have the equaliser of the bass on +10db too which is +20db "hot" although normally i turn it off so its just +10db

If your system is set up correctly there should be no need to turn the bass up and down.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Nugget - bear in mind that running a sub not, while sometimes preferable, can overpower things sometimes, and can drown out the more punchy effect that a home theatre system should provide. I can't really comment on your sub as I'm not familiar with the Ikon sub, but the SB2000 is the best "sub" £1,000 subwoofer available, in my opinion. Very few other manufacturers offer a decent 12" under the sort of price point.

Do experiment with your set up though, as many issues tend to be down to setup, and many issues can be addressed, at least partially, this way.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Not familiar with your sub but on my old analogue sub, I need to set the crossover to maximum on the subwoofer, and the volume to half.
I then need to run the calibration on my AV receiver, which in your case is Advanced DCAC.
In mine it is Audyssey which sets my speakers to large. I amend this to 40Hz crossover as that sounds correct to my ears from years of trials!
What I then do is use an SPL app in my phone to change each speaker level in reciever so that they all have same volume at main listening position. This is purely fine tuning. Half to 1 decibel adjustment required if that.
Then I put on a piece of music that I am very familiar with and change the volume of the sub until it all sounds right.
After years of room moves and setups I find this method gives me fantastic bass and balance to the point that most people who hear it that have not heard a proper AV set up before all say something like "this is better than cinema".
Of course, it's not as powerful, but it certainly comes close in terms of satisfaction.
And, I would argue, is better for music!!!

 

[michael hoy]

I would not set these speakers to large and especialy as you want to make use of a sub.

 

[bigboss]

I would not set these speakers to large and especialy as you want to make use of a sub.

 

+1. Designating speakers to large means the subwoofer doesn't get any work.

 

[Series1boy]

I would not set these speakers to large and especialy as you want to make use of a sub.

+1. Designating speakers to large means the subwoofer doesn't get any work.

+2 I have my focal floorstanders set to small, 80hz crossover and focal sub set to just below half volume from max. Too much sub drowns out the surround sound. You've got a good solid setup, so it must be setup incorrectly..

 

[nugget2014]

I would not set these speakers to large and especialy as you want to make use of a sub.

+1. Designating speakers to large means the subwoofer doesn't get any work.

that was the first thing i made sure was correct maybe i just have to keep trying the volume of the sub diffirent and see what is best overall. although eventually i want to upgrade (always want to upgrade sub every time i go to a concert..)

 

[bigboss]

Try antimode:

http://www.bkelec.com/hifi/Sub_Woofers/anti-mode-c.htm

It may just be the upgrade you're looking for, without having to change your subwoofer.

 

[michael hoy]

Try antimode:

http://www.bkelec.com/hifi/Sub_Woofers/anti-mode-c.htm

It may just be the upgrade you're looking for, without having to change your subwoofer.

+1 with the Antmode.

I was more than happy with my setup before i tried the Antimode and then wow it really does work.

The sound of your system does change and you do wonder if it is worse at first, but the bass control now perfect.

The odd boom that i had and was miss placed in the processing of the sound in a scene or music track has gone.

The bass is subtle where it needs to be and wallop when needs to be.

I recently watched Fury and the tank engine noise rumbled through my chair, the same with Interstellar.

They are not cheap but when spending thousands on a system it is only a small percentage and they do hold their value.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Genuine question:
What benefit is Antmode if I already have Audyssey in my AV receiver?

 

[bigboss]

Audyssey doesn't manage bass well. In fact, it sets front and centre speakers to "large", rendering the subwoofer almost useless. I've had to manually set the speakers to "small" and push the subwoofer volume up beyond Audyssey calibration's settings.

 

[michael hoy]

The Antimode plugs inbetween the amp and the subwoofer.

You have a microphone to plug in for the first time you set it up and press setup.

Leave your room (you will not want to be in it) and wait about 20 mins for it to finish.

Then run Audessey.

You do need to make sure your sub settings are correct according to your sub's manual before you start.

Once run just sit back and enjoy.

 

[ellisdj]

An antimode will only reduce peaks in the bass - if this was your problem you would have the opposite problem you would have boomy bass that you would be turning down and not up as you have.

Audessey will do a decent enough job of this on its own so this is not good advice to spend more money on this.

Also plonking a simialr sub down in the same spot in your room will likely give you the same bass - I have proved this on here before graphically with freq repsonses of different subs in the same spot

I can forsee two issues - one is your sub bass is not time / phase aligned correctly with your speakers.

A receiver is supposed to sort this out as part of its setup but it might be struggling to do a good job in your room

Or your crossover is too low - a sub can do bass better than speakers in a lot of situations.

You could try crossing over much higher - 150hz - to 200hz - however this might mean the bass becomes directional and to combat it you might need a second sub, but if having the higher crossover gives you the more punchy bass your after which it definately will then you know your heading in the right direction and not wasting money.

If you cant / dont know how to measure the sub response using REW to see what your getting maybe look at a better solution to do it for you.

MiniDSP DRC88A - this can be had from HSound who are a great delaer and I am sure he would demo you a unit. This will give you much more advanced overall setup than what an antimode can do - which is a basic unit with basic parameters.

I am supposed to be being sent one to try out - I dont think I need it but I can see where it will fix a lot of most peoples setups problems giving big improvement

 

[ellisdj]

also subs are differenent in how they perform.

If my SVS's are anything to go by for their range of subs they are smooth operators - you can crank them up higher than normal for more bass presence in the lower regions and they dont step out of line - however they are not really "punchy" subs, even though they will give you poper wallop - such as in the explosion scene in Interstellar - that was a shock and got me going and the rocket take off scene actually semi felt like what I would imagine it would sound / feel like. Good subs!! I am crossed over at 150hz as that the highest I can go on my processor

If you really want a punchy sounding sub - then 2 x MK Sound V12's at the front will give you a more punchy sound once setup right. However my limited experince of these subs is they are not near as articulate and full sounding as my SVS's

Speak to Rob at Gecko Home Cinema for advice and prices etc on the MK subs range