so 42hzE is the CULPRIT so would it be the root of all my problemsemperor's new clothes said:
it as a variable phase 180 to zero do mean purposely phase out a particular frequency by cancellationhg said:
floyd droid62 said:
At the crossover frequency, say 80 Hz, the phase of the main speakers and the subwoofer will be different relative to the input signal and significantly so if the main speakers are small and close to the driver and box resonances. In addition, if the distance from the listener to the mains and sub is different this will also change the relative phase. The effects are additive and so a single phase knob can fix both at the crossover frequency. Different frequencies in the crossover region will strictly require a different phase correction but in practise it shouldn't be too far off the one at 80 Hz.
Looking at the picture of your room the speakers appear to be on the long wall with you sitting with your head against the opposite long wall. If the speakers are at 25% and 75% along the wall and you are sitting at 50% along the other wall then the 40 Hz mode will not be heard. You would need to move away from the centre to pick it up. However, the 50 Hz mode will be the worst it is possible to make it and since you are sitting against the wall you will not be able to put a sub behind you.
It is a poor layout but one temporary test you can do to check for how much of a problem the 50 Hz mode is would be to move the couch forward and put the sub behind you (or move the couch out the way and sit on the sub). The mains will be about 10 ms away and the sub about 1-2 ms away requiring about 8 ms of delay to the sub. At 50 Hz one cycle takes 20 ms and so 0-180 degrees gives us 0-10 ms of delay. We need to invert the signal which means adding or subtracting 180 degrees or, more simply, swapping the +ve and -ve leads on the sub or mains. And we need to compensate for whatever the phase difference is between the mains and sub. This might be 40 degrees or more depending on the details of drivers and cabinets. The gain on the sub will need to be lower than normal because it is so close. The high pass filter on the sub needs to be set just above 50 Hz at highest slope (how do you change between sealed and ported slopes?) since it is unlikely to be helping at higher frequencies. You seem to have just about enough flexibility to pull the mode down to a reasonably flat response but it is likely to be very fiddly to do by ear.
PS Brain fade. You can of course put the sub between the mains with a different set of gain and phase settings and achieve close to the same thing.
these are my old speakers REGRET selling ,but the new ones will be going in that same position ; thank you for your very detailed explanation ,lost me a little but it might sink inhg said:
Have you ever tried moving speaker in oposite deriction of couch, on longer wall.You will get wider distance between speakers,it might result in better sound.That way standounds sounds great
yes my wife & i did experiment with the speakers there, and there was a definite improvement on sound ,however it was to much of a compromise as we liked big plasma tv on back wall; and i like my own chair looking longways at the t.v plus sky box &cables ,plugs etc are on back wall, but you can,t have it alwaysRimse said:
When I had monitor audio rs6 speakers,they sounded best positioned like yours focals,just a bit wider
You can check out these s6 or rx6
You can check out these s6 or rx6
shadders
Well-known member
Hi,
Not sure if this has been suggested - i have not read all the posts - but you have a hard wood floor - and this will certainly reflect sounds a lot.
My next door neighbour has three dogs - all small and when they all start squealing, yapping, etc at the same time - the volume is very loud and it is as if they are in my front room.
So, maybe rugs on the floor, or carpet - to dampen any modes or reflections.
My down subwoofer is downfacing - s maybe place a rug under that to absorp reflections.
Regards,
Shadders.
Not sure if this has been suggested - i have not read all the posts - but you have a hard wood floor - and this will certainly reflect sounds a lot.
My next door neighbour has three dogs - all small and when they all start squealing, yapping, etc at the same time - the volume is very loud and it is as if they are in my front room.
So, maybe rugs on the floor, or carpet - to dampen any modes or reflections.
My down subwoofer is downfacing - s maybe place a rug under that to absorp reflections.
Regards,
Shadders.
BigH
Well-known member
I have that tv stand. Those speakers look far too close together unless you are siting about 5 feet away.
What size room is it?
What size room is it?
I can't even see the speakers!
Agree with shadders (for once ;-) ) about the carpet. Would also try to put something on the wall to absorb sound. Maybe it's possible to get art that conceals a form of bass trap. A fabric hanging or canvas would be ideal. If you could frame it and rig up some kind of panel with rockwool inside.
I have a room far worse than this. The only answer is headphones. Or a shed. Actually, the shed is the only answer. Even if I had lovely sound in my main room, the Mrs would tell me to turn it down....
PS - open the pic in another tab to get correct aspect ratio - or put in smaller width dimension when posting the image. This stupid forum software buggers the up otherwise.
Agree with shadders (for once ;-) ) about the carpet. Would also try to put something on the wall to absorb sound. Maybe it's possible to get art that conceals a form of bass trap. A fabric hanging or canvas would be ideal. If you could frame it and rig up some kind of panel with rockwool inside.
I have a room far worse than this. The only answer is headphones. Or a shed. Actually, the shed is the only answer. Even if I had lovely sound in my main room, the Mrs would tell me to turn it down....
PS - open the pic in another tab to get correct aspect ratio - or put in smaller width dimension when posting the image. This stupid forum software buggers the up otherwise.
14ft x 11ft t.v 50" the bk monolith subwoofer lives in top left corner ,the image does make the room look more narrow i sit about 10ft away those was my old speakers i sold regretably , got new standBigH said:
Mmm. I'm not surprised you have troubles. Carpet the floor and walls! I was wondering if you might be able to put something to break up the unremitting flatness of that wall. Maybe experiment with nailing a duvet or two to it ;-)
There must be a market for sound absorbing or dispersing art.
There must be a market for sound absorbing or dispersing art.
there will be alot more canvas prints going on the walls plus rugs ,than i am geting the dali zensor 3 ,new avr & use bass management, than sit back & enjoy music*music2**biggrin* hopefully!!!thewinelake. said:
I would be careful with zensor 3s.. I had them before and these are boxy sounding, recessed midrange and average stereo image.. not very good speakers imo.. I had them with marantz pm6004, mcr510 and electrocompaniet 5 ( bought this amp for my next pair of speakers atc scm11s).. any yamaha hs series speaker is better than above combination.. I only mentioned yamaha as I had them right after zensors
insider9
Well-known member
lpv said:
In their defense
Zensor 3 didn't sound good to me either with new Marantz gear. I thought they were rather poor until I heard them with Onkyo A9010. Completely different speaker, very enjoyable. They paired really well none of the issues you describe. Other good pairings are Arcam, Cambridge Audio and Yamaha not heard others. Also heard it with an old Marantz PM66SE and they sounded fine.If anything it put me off of new Marantz gear and not Dalis
*smile*
after careful consideration,room ,i am getting the ATC scm 7 *smile*insider9 said:lpv said:
In their defense
If anything it put me off of new Marantz gear and not Dalis
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