Electrostatics: brilliant answer or impractical solution.

[nopiano]

About thirty years ago I heard the original Quads (now called ESL57s) in 3 or 4 domestic settings. They sounded pretty flat with Quad's own amps, the 33/405 being the typical pairing. With a grunty Marantz or Harman/Kardon receiver they came to life. They need more space than normal living rooms in Britain have to spare. At a few shows they were paired with subwoofers, ribbon tweeters, but best of all, stacked in pairs and with hefty valve amps (way beyond anything Quad ever made).

Later, I heard some ESL63s and they were more 'normal' sounding to me, but with the transparency still evident. Still a bit dull compared to the sparkly tweeters more typical of the day. Definitely not for rocking out to, but great for small scale acoustic stuff. It as rather easier to get, say, KEF 105 references sounding good in the same space (a customer switched from one to t'other).

I was actually madly in love with the dynamic driver'd Dalhquist DQ10 for a while, which looked almost identical to the ESL 57. But on reflection it was because they were partnered by the then new Naim 32/250 and a Linn/Grace/Supex MC combo, which was the best non-tape source I had ever heard. I then bought some UK-made speakers that sounded a bit like the Dalhquists - Nightingale NM1s.

Various Martin Logans, Maneplanars and Apogees at shows had me drooling for a panel speaker one day, and I'm thrilled to see MLs widely advertised again. But meanwhile I found Sonus fabers had beautiful boxes and musical sounds, and have rarely looked back.

 

[CnoEvil]

Quad's long running ESL range (think the 2905 is the current model) is probably best known, but there's others out there - Soundlab or Janszen to name but two. Not cheap and you need a bit of space as David mentions.

RS, have you ever had the chance to get a listen?

 

[CnoEvil]

NP, cheers for that. Can you get close to the sound of this type of speaker with carefully chosen standard speakers + amp?

 

[Frank Harvey]

We had the 2905's in our demo room for a while, but found their bass overpowering. I think they needed a room with more width than ours, as it wasn't a room issue - if anything, our main demo room leans out the bass.

 

[CnoEvil]

We had the 2905's in our demo room for a while, but found their bass overpowering. I think they needed a room with more width than ours, as it wasn't a room issue - if anything, our main demo room leans out the bass.

David, did you sell many pairs......or even ever get asked for them?

How far up the pecking order do Quad come in this type of panel speaker?

 

[Frank Harvey]

None. I think you have to have stuff in store that impresses. I know a home demo is the clincher, but you're not going to convince someone to have a home demo if they don't sound good in store.

Older Quad electrostatics were excellent, and they clainpm these newer ones are so much better, but I didn't hear any if the major qualities that are supposed to make a panel speaker stand out from the conventional.

 

[CnoEvil]

None. I think you have to have stuff in store that impresses. I know a home demo is the clincher, but you're not going to convince someone to have a home demo if they don't sound good in store. Older Quad electrostatics were excellent, and they clainpm these newer ones are so much better, but I didn't hear any if the major qualities that are supposed to make a panel speaker stand out from the conventional.

I suspect that your experience may well mirror that of the rest of the country.

Thx

Cno

 

[Frank Harvey]

Saying that you have to have stuff in store that impresses is probably a little harsh. We do have stuff in store that doesn't initially impress, but they work in the demo rooms, and they must work in people's homes because they buy them. Unfortunately, the Quads didn't, and they don't get asked for. I think the price that they are now, they're up against stiff competition from very high quality conventional speakers that can be accommodated easily in most living rooms.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

None. I think you have to have stuff in store that impresses. I know a home demo is the clincher, but you're not going to convince someone to have a home demo if they don't sound good in store. Older Quad electrostatics were excellent, and they clainpm these newer ones are so much better, but I didn't hear any if the major qualities that are supposed to make a panel speaker stand out from the conventional.

I suspect that your experience may well mirror that of the rest of the country. Thx Cno

Thus speaketh the expert on Electrostatics who hath not them y klept.

Seriously, give it a break. So some find them better than your Kef references. So what? That doesn't stop others enjoying them, nor you from enjoying your Kefs. If you want to run a witch hunt, don't hide it in the form of some quasi investigative debate. In the words of the great Columbo, there's only one guy you're fooling.

Ciao, I'm back to the dishes.

 

[plastic penguin]

Interesting thread. I know absolutely nowt about ES speakers, nor have I seen any reviews about them. Fascinated to hear they need lots of room, given that most look like solar panels.

Well done Cno.

 

[CnoEvil]

Seriously, give it a break. So some find them better than your Kef references. So what? That doesn't stop others enjoying them, nor you from enjoying your Kefs. If you want to run a witch hunt, don't hide it in the form of some quasi investigative debate. In the words of the great Columbo, there's only one guy you're fooling.

Ciao, I'm back to the dishes.

You are still reading me wrong.

As it happens I think it's a shame that they are not more readily available and as a result of the responses to this thread, I'm getting a clearer understanding why......and I think it has little to do with the way they sound.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Witch hunt?

I haven't seen this thread as anything but an enquiry about the ins and outs of panels speakers. Nothing more.

 

[nopiano]

NP, cheers for that. Can you get close to the sound of this type of speaker with carefully chosen standard speakers + amp?

Not readily in my experience, though an approximation might be with a decent amp and a pair of LS3/5as. Putting it bluntly, no bass to speak of, clear and accurate, gently rolled-off at the top. The power-handling is similar to Quad's early models too - not enough sensitivity to go loud, and can be clipped or over-driven if not careful. I suspect the best early Quad sound was with the valved 22/II pairing, rather than the later 33/303, which frankly I thought was dreadful. Many went wrong when almost new, and they sounded so dull to me, whatever they were paired with. (I was a wide bandwidth guy, so rolled off bass and treble had no place for me - so you can put my predjudices in context).

There is definitely a beguiling lightness of touch about a good 'panel' speaker. A sort of hear-through quality it is hard to get from a cabinet with cones and domes! And, obviously I suppose, no boxiness. You only notice its absence after a while, and then realise how much colouration cabinets can add.

I haven't read much about the latest Quads, but had thought they were well liked. I can well imagine they are hard to dem in David's shop - regular speakers probably sound better at close quarters, and are what we expect too.

Can you get to hear Stax headphones, Cno, if you cannot track down some speakers somewhere? Definitely something "to hear before you die" (if that isn't a book alrready!) assuming you are an audio nut.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Don't think anyone has linked to this yet:
http://www.whathifi.com/review/quad-esl-2805

Can sound awesome in right situation....

 

[CnoEvil]

Can you get to hear Stax headphones, Cno, if you cannot track down some speakers somewhere? Definitely something "to hear before you die" (if that isn't a book alrready!) assuming you are an audio nut.

........on the "bucket list" they go!

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Cno, you haven't seem it, have you, mate. You've yet to make a positive comment about the Electrostatics, and have instead highlighted the supposed negatives. Look back over what you've written, and you'll see, whether your comments were made subconsciously or not, what I mean. There is no balance at all. Hercule Poirot must be turning in his literary grave.

I'd say the same for any thread topic, by the way, which purports to be an investigation but is something else, be the topic floorstanders or DACs or the Conservative party.

Perhaps you should comment now on why these beasts are so popular outside the UK, and what there assured strengths are.

Was going to quote from all your comments so you'd understand, but couldn't be ****ed, and am afraid of turning into a p*m

 

[chebby]

...and am afraid of turning into a p*m

That boat sailed when you admitted to doing the dishes...

Ciao, I'm back to the dishes.

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno, you haven't seem it, have you, mate. You've yet to make a positive comment about the Electrostatics, and have instead highlighted the supposed negatives. Look back over what you've written, and you'll see, whether your comments were made subconsciously or not, what I mean. There is no balance at all. Hercule Poirot must be turning in his literary grave.

I'd say the same for any thread topic, by the way, which purports to be an investigation but is something else, be the topic floorstanders or DACs or the Conservative party.

Perhaps you should comment now on why these beasts are so popular outside the UK, and what there assured strengths are.

Was going to quote from all your comments so you'd understand, but couldn't be ****ed, and am afraid of turning into a p*m

A few quotes from what I've written - hardly an all out condemnation:

"This not meant as an attack on this speaker"
"They are certainly not a common recommendation on this forum....maybe they should be"
"If I had a large room for 2 channel only (and a local dealer), they sound like something that would suit my taste very well"
"As it happens I think it's a pity they are not more readily available....and I think it has little to do with the way they sound.

Most of the input of this thread has come from the people who have been kind enough to contribute. The general consensus is that for what they do well, there is little better, provided you know what you're getting into.....and thanks to the above inputs, the people in this hemisphere have gained some useful info.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

I'm sure the population of the northern hemisphere are thinking in terms of a Nobel prize. however, read through your first post again, and hang thy head in sorrow!

You know that outside the UK and Ireland there is life, and they have unlimited access to Electrostatics?

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm sure the population of the northern hemisphere are thinking in terms of a Nobel prize. however, read through your first post again, and hang thy head in sorrow!

You know that outside the UK and Ireland there is life, and they have unlimited access to Electrostatics?

:wall:

Mr Lemon, it would nice to see your altruistic side rather than your bitter one.

 

[Frank Harvey]

B'dumm, tssssshhhhhh!

 

[altruistic.lemon]

I'm an Aussie, mate. We don't wear fools gladly, and are ruthless in grinding them into the dust. Steve Waugh is both a saint and philosopher down under.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm an Aussie, mate. We don't wear fools gladly, and are ruthless in grinding them into the dust. Steve Waugh is both a saint and philosopher down under.

You seem to be reading a different thread to me :shifty:

 

[Frank Harvey]

Careful though - we all know the Irish keep a 'bad barrel' handy for outsiders :rofl:

 

[CnoEvil]

Careful though - we all know the Irish keep a 'bad barrel' handy for outsiders :rofl:

Ah, but there would be an insider present.......though I will testify that 8 pints followed by a strong curry, is more than enough for all but the hardiest.