Does anyone understand bipole/dipole speakers? And do I need them?

[admin_exported]

I need some rear surrounds, and due to the room layout, the speakers are going to be on the wall, right next to the listener.

I think I need some bipole/dipoles to do this.

Is this basically correct;

Bipole - two tweeters two drivers, working 'inphase'
Dipole - two tweeters two drivers, working out of 'phase'

Which do I need, and are they better than conventional speakers?

Finally in keeping with my Mission set-up, are these all the same speaker:

M5DS
M7DS
77DS
78DS
79DS

Thanks

 

[Anonymous]

Your understanding for bipolar/dipolar. the way it works is fully correct!

But the thing is when u seating in a small room and against the back wall with the surround speaker that close to u , i doubt it very much that u will get any benefit at all! whether if it,s dipolar or pilolar they both gonna sounds kind of direct just like any conventional speakers.

my advice to you , try to move your surround speaker as far as possible and much higher than the listner , and turn them down by 1-3 db , it seems to help alot.

Goodluck

 

[fayeanddavid]

On the same tack but with a slightly different take:

Where should dipoles be positioned relative to the listener, should they be;

Mounted either side on parallel walls in line with the listener?

mounted to the rear of the listener but still on the parallel walls?

mounted on the wall behind the listener?.

in each case the speakers would be approx 2 metres high as they are quite bulky (see signature)

I currently have them on wall brackets with swivel stands angled slightly into the room (aesthetics and curtains etc), would it be an improvement to have them either side as described above?

I know it would be best to try all however.............cabling under carpet already, if it needs to be changed from what I have then it can only be the once!!!

Thanks

 

[The_Lhc]

They should definitely be flat to the wall, rather than angled but, from what I understand at least, they can either go on the side walls in line with the seating position or on the rear wall.

 

[Anonymous]

I love mine. (Check below for model).

Going by the recommendations of B&W and the THX website, mine are mounted along side my viewing position, (in a 5.1 setup), at 1.8m high. This puts them about 2 feet above head height.

(For 7.1 another pair, close together, go behind you apparently).

In dipole mode they produce a really cinematic sound. You can't pinpoint where the rears are as they are firing around you, just like a cinema!

Hope this helps.

 

[The_Lhc]

stan007:(For 7.1 another pair, close together, go behind you apparently).

That's the THX recommendation but I don't believe in that example that they're referring to bi/dipole speakers but ordinary monopole speakers.

 

[Anonymous]

I believe it might be for dipoles too. Puts you in the "node". (The area where the speaker is not directly firing).

Either way, it still creates a very good effect and the B&W's can operate in dipole or monopole.

 

[The_Lhc]

stan007:I believe it might be for dipoles too. Puts you in the "node". (The area where the speaker is not directly firing).

I think the theory I read is that THX believe that, even if you have two centre rear channels (ie 7.1 instead of 6.1) they're supposed to act as a single radiating source. You're never going to get that with bi/dipoles because they're aren't a single source in the first place.

It's also the complete opposite of what Dolby recommend!

 

[Anonymous]

Bi/dipoles should be placed next to the listener, or slightly behind, but certainly not at the back wall. If you put them right against the back wall the rear firing speakers don't make much sense.

I prefer my dipoles *slightly* angled in to the listening position. Not nearly as much as you would angle front speakers, but still. This is also recommended in the manual that came with the dipoles.

 

[Anonymous]

I have been using Polk Ls/Fx Dipole Bipole speakers for 10yrs with great success never considered changing.

I use mine on a rear wall in bipole configuration but my listening position is in the centre of the room so that works fine.

Dipole configured speakers should be positioned at the sides of the listening position at 90deg , the listener is then in the "null"

I am about to add another set of surrounds to complete a 7.1 system , these are tripole speakers and will be at 110deg to the seating position , the Polks will stay as they are will be interesting to see how that sounds

 

[Anonymous]

Bi's/Di's/Tri's are there so that they offer an equivocal sound to the audience quite irrelevant of their listening position - most peeps will get to hear the same thing. On a personal level, they don't offer the accurate effects placement that directs (radiating) output.

If you've got a massive room, with a large audience to consider, then they would seem a good option. However, in a typical listening area, they disperse the sound more than directs, and so sometimes you're not actually sure where the sound has originated from, and more importantly, where it should ideally be placed in the soundfield.

i.e Directs will give you a more accurate soundfield.

 

[fayeanddavid]

THE_FORCE

Don't normally worry/bother with reviewing signature kit lists, however just had a little peek at yours....................!

Not too shabby at all.

Top man

 

[Anonymous]

THE_FORCE:

Bi's/Di's/Tri's are there so that they offer an equivocal sound to the audience quite irrelevant of their listening position - most peeps will get to hear the same thing. On a personal level, they don't offer the accurate effects placement that directs (radiating) output.

If you've got a massive room, with a large audience to consider, then they would seem a good option. However, in a typical listening area, they disperse the sound more than directs, and so sometimes you're not actually sure where the sound has originated from, and more importantly, where it should ideally be placed in the soundfield.

i.e Directs will give you a more accurate soundfield.

Totally agree Force, but it must also depend on the "Mix" which is diffuse in Dolby Digital and THX recommend Dipole's at 90 deg for this reason.

With the new HD sound codec's there is the opportunity for the sound engineer to make effects more direct and indeed 7.1 setups would suggest that using direct firing surrounds would be the way to go.

 

[Anonymous]

THE_FORCE:
Bi's/Di's/Tri's are there so that they offer an equivocal sound to the audience quite irrelevant of their listening position - most peeps will get to hear the same thing. On a personal level, they don't offer the accurate effects placement that directs (radiating) output.

If you've got a massive room, with a large audience to consider, then they would seem a good option. However, in a typical listening area, they disperse the sound more than directs, and so sometimes you're not actually sure where the sound has originated from, and more importantly, where it should ideally be placed in the soundfield.

i.e Directs will give you a more accurate soundfield.

Totaly agree with you THE_FORCE! and thise,s exaclty what i was tring to say in start of this thread ,that is when you seating in a small room, u don,t need bipolar/dipolar elc.