Does anyone else think 4K ultra HD and HDR Blu-Ray is a big con?

[richardw42]

Good luck mate, Awesome build quality Super stand and looks Cool. I have mine set to Normal for daytime and True Cinema for Night. Overscan turned Off all other niceties off.The Firefox interface is nice too.Also great pics from Apple TV 4.

cheers. So far, so good. It certainly is an impressive tv. I've turned off pretty much everything including Overscan. I've turned Sharpness right down which has got rid of the horrible shimmering effect you get around moving objects. This has happened on virtually every tv I've had.

Im using the twin satellite inputs so Freesat & Freetime for catchup. The Amazon app works well too.

Very happy and I'll keep fiddling.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Cant see why a higher priced 1080p OLED shouldn't be HDR rated, nor why a 4K set automatically should.
HDR only became the "latest and greatest" in the last six months or so, do its unlikely any 2015, even some 2016 models, regardless of resolution are genuinely HDR capable.
As ever, read the small print and do your homework before handing over your ill gotten gains.

 

[bigboss]

Cant see why a higher priced 1080p OLED shouldn't be HDR rated

There's no point. Only some of 4K material will be HDR, not 1080p. HDR is a part of 4K standards.

 

[ellisdj]

Had an interesting 4k hdr demo yesterday

It wasn't as comprehensive as I hoped but it was interesting.

It was on a Sony VW520 PJ in a proper light controlled room. On at a guess a 150inch screen at about 15 feet.

It wasn't setup perfectly or calibrated just set by eye and it was at the end of a long day .
2 interesting points upscaled blu ray to 4k looked just as sharp as the 4k native bearing in mind what we was watching is only 2k content upscaled anyway.

More interesting was the hdr difference on and off.
With it on the image was darkened in areas which added richness to the picture but more importantly authenticity to the scene.
With hdr off the scene just looked washed out.

Now you have to factor in the signal being sent to the pj could be different in its gamma causing the washed out look.
Nothing looked washed out before we started using the 4k panasonic player.

What you would need to do is play both films simultaneously on a blu ray player and 4kuhd player then swop inputs on the receiver or whatever to go from one to the other instantly to rule out issues elsewhere.

But the hdr did look cracking not in a bright way in an added darkness way to add richness and character to the scene. In non ideal conditions on worse quality display this could well appear to crush detail when really it's not.
Also tv's generally have a richer image than projector so maybe hdr will benefit projectors more than tv when everyone thought it was the other way round.

Interesting times ahead let's hope sony adds support for. My pj as they should do if it's possible.

Back to the resolution you do need to sit close to get the benefit as has been said a lot already. But the image of higher but rate did enrich the image also and make is smoother and cleaner. Looks more naturally sharp rather than sharpened. Edges are softer and that's more realistic. HDR did come at the expense of image pop to a degree however I think this is how things will go for added realism not just for show just to sell tv's etc. Then people will sell products or work out ways to get the pop back.

Thanks to Richard at SimplyCinema for inviting me to your day

 

[Frank Harvey]

Upscaled Bluray can look excellent, but only if the quality of the film is good in the first place, and the the quality of the upscaling is good too. The worse the picture looks, the less 'clean' it looks when upscaled. So the real test of a quality projector isn't how good it can look when upscaling good quality Blurays, but how it looks when upscaling lower quality Blurays - because not everyone watches bombastic action movies - some film fans watch quality films that vary in intended quality (added grain, varying colour pallette and focus etc).

Of course, a high quality UHD projector is going to have high quality upscaling as its price allows, but it is when UHD PJs start to fall in price we will start to see them not fair so well in reproducing existing Blurays.

 

[ellisdj]

That's not a sensible comparison David crud looking content will be crud on uhd as well but it won't be released on uhd blu ray unless they just want to milk people and I can't see that happening as it's too niche product presently

What's important is the differences in content that is released vs the original blu ray and whether it's worth upgrading.

So from 15 feet ish on 8 feet wide scope screen resolution was really noticeable compared to upscaled content.

 

[simonlewis]

I've just been watching captain america and the avengers and the picture quality is top notch much better than the revenant is in 4K UHD.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I've just been watching captain america and the avengers and the picture quality is top notch much better than the revenant is in 4K UHD.

Picture quality will still vary between UHD discs just as it does between Blurays.

 

[Frank Harvey]

That's not a sensible comparison David crud looking content will be crud on uhd as well but it won't be released on uhd blu ray unless they just want to milk people and I can't see that happening as it's too niche product presently

Sorry, I'm not sure what comparison you're referring to. I'm merely stating that upscaling will depend on the quality of the Bluray and the quality of the upscaling. Source is key - if the quality isn't there to begin with, it won't upscale well.

Did I hear correctly that some of the UHD releases were upscaled 1080p?!

 

[nugget2014]

That's not a sensible comparison David crud looking content will be crud on uhd as well but it won't be released on uhd blu ray unless they just want to milk people and I can't see that happening as it's too niche product presently

Sorry, I'm not sure what comparison you're referring to. I'm merely stating that upscaling will depend on the quality of the Bluray and the quality of the upscaling. Source is key - if the quality isn't there to begin with, it won't upscale well.

Did I hear correctly that some of the UHD releases were upscaled 1080p?!

yes, this is old news. 80% of the discs are upscaled 2k, or 1080p if you will..

however the martian and kingsman, both being 2k masters look amazing. and sicario being a 4k master, looks equally gorgeous. so upscaled 2k or 4k doesnt matter TOO much

 

[Frank Harvey]

I wasn't trying to be up on current affairs, just proving a point...

As I have already said, UHD will prove its worth on a large enough screen, as does 1080p Bluray over DVD. Upscaled Bluray, given a good quality disc, can look stunning in its own right, and that was 3/4 years ago - now there should be a larger divide with HDR appearing on the scene.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I wasn't trying to be up on current affairs, just proving a point...

As I have already said, UHD will prove its worth on a large enough screen, as does 1080p Bluray over DVD. Upscaled Bluray, given a good quality disc, can look stunning in its own right, and that was 3/4 years ago - now there should be a larger divide with HDR appearing on the scene.

Have you seen a ultra HD blu Ray playing on a TV then?

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I've changed the heading because that's what I meant in the first place.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I wasn't trying to be up on current affairs, just proving a point...

As I have already said, UHD will prove its worth on a large enough screen, as does 1080p Bluray over DVD. Upscaled Bluray, given a good quality disc, can look stunning in its own right, and that was 3/4 years ago - now there should be a larger divide with HDR appearing on the scene.

Have you seen a ultra HD blu Ray playing on a TV then?

We've had 4K material showing here since late last summer when we took on Samsung.

I'm not saying you won't see a difference on an average size TV of say 50"-60", but whether it'll be worth paying three or four times the cost of a standard Bluray player and another half to double he price for a UHD disc is up for debate - 1080p is certainly good enough for these size TVs. I know that buying a UHD PJ for my 7' screen would make a difference, but if I'm going UHD, I want at least a 12'-15' screen to make it worthwhile. I'll not be moving to UHD until I'm in a position to do so, and I'm not really interested in watching a UHD TV, as I find 1080p good enough for the small amount of TV that I do watch.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I've changed the heading because that's what I meant in the first place.

A straight answer to that is no - it is not a big con as it is four times the resolution of standard Bluray, plus you get the benefit of HDR. HDR will sway people more than UHD itself I think (mainly because people aren't using big enough screens for the format).

 

[Son_of_SJ]

I wasn't trying to be up on current affairs, just proving a point...

As I have already said, UHD will prove its worth on a large enough screen, as does 1080p Bluray over DVD. Upscaled Bluray, given a good quality disc, can look stunning in its own right, and that was 3/4 years ago - now there should be a larger divide with HDR appearing on the scene.

Have you seen a ultra HD blu Ray playing on a TV then?

Strange question to put to David@Frank Harvey, the man's an audio-visual retailer!

 

[Son_of_SJ]

I wasn't trying to be up on current affairs, just proving a point...

As I have already said, UHD will prove its worth on a large enough screen, as does 1080p Bluray over DVD. Upscaled Bluray, given a good quality disc, can look stunning in its own right, and that was 3/4 years ago - now there should be a larger divide with HDR appearing on the scene.

Have you seen a ultra HD blu Ray playing on a TV then?

We've had 4K material showing here since late last summer when we took on Samsung.

I'm not saying you won't see a difference on an average size TV of say 50"-60", but whether it'll be worth paying three or four times the cost of a standard Bluray player and another half to double he price for a UHD disc is up for debate - 1080p is certainly good enough for these size TVs. I know that buying a UHD PJ for my 7' screen would make a difference, but if I'm going UHD, I want at least a 12'-15' screen to make it worthwhile. I'll not be moving to UHD until I'm in a position to do so, and I'm not really interested in watching a UHD TV, as I find 1080p good enough for the small amount of TV that I do watch.

Damn, David@Frank Harvey rates only two of my televisions as bigger than average, shucks ...... After Mr Steve Withers calibrated my Sony and Panasonic nine days ago, he said that he liked the sight and sound of my parlour system, and he certainly wasn't pushing me towards 4K, even at 75 inches. He himself has a projector that I think beams to a nine-foot screen, and still 1080p.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I wasn't trying to be up on current affairs, just proving a point...

As I have already said, UHD will prove its worth on a large enough screen, as does 1080p Bluray over DVD. Upscaled Bluray, given a good quality disc, can look stunning in its own right, and that was 3/4 years ago - now there should be a larger divide with HDR appearing on the scene.

Have you seen a ultra HD blu Ray playing on a TV then?

Strange question to put to David@Frank Harvey, the man's an audio-visual retailer!

They have only just got stock of the Samsung K8500 though.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I've been far more impressed by projected 4K than anything I've seen on a UHD TV. But then, in my own situation I'm not interested in watching 4K TV, only 4K movies. As I say though, it will be a long time until I'll be taking that route as I have around 2,000 Blurays which I'm not going to replace with UHD!

I'm not saying a projector looks better than a TV, but higher resolutions and projectors are a far more satisfying match.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I've been far more impressed by projected 4K than anything I've seen on a UHD TV. But then, in my own situation I'm not interested in watching 4K TV, only 4K movies. As I say though, it will be a long time until I'll be taking that route as I have around 2,000 Blurays which I'm not going to replace with UHD!

I'm not saying a projector looks better than a TV, but higher resolutions and projectors are a far more satisfying match.

Which TV and which 4K ultra HD HDR player have you demoed?

 

[ellisdj]

I was watching new Panasonic 65" LED TV tghe £3500 one watching the Panasonic UHD player playing San Andreas.,

At first I thought it looks just like my old plasma which says a lot for the LED TV really, after watching it for a good while I started to see the benefits of UHD - the image is more lush and smooth and detailed, Faces on the main characters looked plastic at times but had me thinking that could well be the make up they are wearing to create a look. There was a lot of intricate details as well.

Then coming home and watching normal 1080 content and even upscaled 4K on my PJ I can clearly see the benefits of the new format.

The future is bright iof you ask me as this is only just getting going.

So do you put a UHD Blu ray on a TV and go wow, No - you would need to go see the PJ in the black room here to get that Wow effect, or go see a Loewe Reference TV in Harrods, but its clear to me that this new format is not a con its a clear step forward

Lets hope Sony can update my PJ for HDR, heres hoping.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I was watching new Panasonic 65" LED TV tghe £3500 one watching the Panasonic UHD player playing San Andreas.,

At first I thought it looks just like my old plasma which says a lot for the LED TV really, after watching it for a good while I started to see the benefits of UHD - the image is more lush and smooth and detailed, Faces on the main characters looked plastic at times but had me thinking that could well be the make up they are wearing to create a look. There was a lot of intricate details as well.

Then coming home and watching normal 1080 content and even upscaled 4K on my PJ I can clearly see the benefits of the new format.

The future is bright iof you ask me as this is only just getting going.

So do you put a UHD Blu ray on a TV and go wow, No - you would need to go see the PJ in the black room here to get that Wow effect, or go see a Loewe Reference TV in Harrods, but its clear to me that this new format is not a con its a clear step forward

Lets hope Sony can update my PJ for HDR, heres hoping.

*good*

 

[nugget2014]

I was watching new Panasonic 65" LED TV tghe £3500 one watching the Panasonic UHD player playing San Andreas.,

At first I thought it looks just like my old plasma which says a lot for the LED TV really, after watching it for a good while I started to see the benefits of UHD - the image is more lush and smooth and detailed, Faces on the main characters looked plastic at times but had me thinking that could well be the make up they are wearing to create a look. There was a lot of intricate details as well.

Then coming home and watching normal 1080 content and even upscaled 4K on my PJ I can clearly see the benefits of the new format.

The future is bright iof you ask me as this is only just getting going.

So do you put a UHD Blu ray on a TV and go wow, No - you would need to go see the PJ in the black room here to get that Wow effect, or go see a Loewe Reference TV in Harrods, but its clear to me that this new format is not a con its a clear step forward

Lets hope Sony can update my PJ for HDR, heres hoping.

san andreas has been reviews by many people and turns out to be of not much improvement if any over the blu ray disc, maybe if you seen another film being played instead..

 

[Deleted member 2457]

HDR is apparently about the dimness not the brightness that many reported!

 

[spiny norman]

HDR is apparently about the dimness not the brightness that many reported!

No, it's about the available contrast range from the dimmest to the brightest element in the picture.