DIY Speaker kits

[admin_exported]

I was wondering whether WHSaV would consider doing a review of speaker kits?

I've been listening to a few homemade kits and pre-made ones (before I partially lost my hearing) from a group of friends who have a mixture of kit and was particularly impressed with a set made by Wilmslow Audio.

So much so, I've asked them for some more info in it.

The kit that caught my eye was the Mirage kit, although I can't seem to find their rather distinct cabinet available on their website.

I appreciate kits often cost more than buying off the shelf and was wondering whether there's any mileage in comparing them with off the shelf products.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Aeroadster,

There's a huge world of DIY audio out there, and Wilmslow are just one of many. I have a number of speakers from them, but there are plenty of other skilled designers offering plans for various levels of cash (i.e. starting from free). Two of the best are Zaph Audio (John Krutke) and Linkwitz Lab (Siegfried Linkwitz).

As for the cost of kits; it's true that you can easily buy mass made speakers for less than many of the kits, however you have to compare like-for-like. Because of the markups involved in the speaker world, buying a manufactured pair with decent drivers (Seas, ScanSpeak etc.) is usually very expensive - and often many times what the equivalent kit would cost.

As an example - I believe that Wilmslow's original "Vogue" design (there's a new version on their site now) was very similar to the ProAc Response 2.5. The Vogue, with the precut MDF panels, used to be around the 600GBP mark, whereas the ProAc was over 2000GBP (if I remember correctly).

Granted you have to glue, finish, screw, solder and paint or veneer, but the cost savings are massive. However, I suspect WHSaV wouldn't want to feature these designs as:

1) Some DIY efforts are copies of commercial designs, so that's a bit of a no-no.
2) Advertisers wouldn't take well to an article basically saying, "Don't buy the expensive units advertised in the mag, go and buy the same drivers and make a box yourself!".

 

[John Duncan]

Agreed, there are other magazines who specialise in this, it's not WHF's market........

 

[fatboyslimfast]

Not just that, how do you review a speaker that could potentially change from build to build?

 

[Anonymous]

As long as the instructions are followed, the results should be pretty much identical. There are issues whereby some driver manufacturers have a reputation for producing varying products over time (i.e. releasing a new version of the same driver, that has slightly different characteristics). Krutke (at Zaph Audio) does make a point of checking this, and trying to only release designs where he's confident of consistency.

Of course, if a builder decides to do something 'spontaneous' with their build, then all bets are off. The location of drivers on the baffle, and even the cabinet's internal dimensions, are often important to the design.

 

[Anonymous]

fatboyslimfast:Not just that, how do you review a speaker that could potentially change from build to build?

if the team reviewing the kit build the kit as per the instructions then there shouldnt be any probs...

 

[drummerman]

I would'nt advise to go the DIY way. As good as some of the designs may well are, once you take the price of pre-fabricated enclosure kits in addition to x/over, driver parts etc into account, they dont look such great value and I would'nt try and make the enclosures yourself. Then you need to have them professionally veneered or they could look like some school kids project.

Plus they are worthless once you've built them yourself. Nobody will buy them off you should you decide to sell/change. If they have been built by say world design themselves and you have the receipt/proof of it it may be a different story but it kinda defeats the objective and I still doubt you'd have much interest!

If you look at how much engineering and quality you'd get with Rega, Dynaudio or ProAc just to mention a few, it really is not worth it.

Last but not least, you have very limited chance of auditioning your kit as fully built speaker before purchase.

 

[Anonymous]

>I would'nt advise to go the DIY way. As good as some of the designs
may well are, once you take the
>price of pre-fabricated enclosure kits
in addition to x/over, driver parts etc into account, they dont look
>such great value and I would'nt try and make the enclosures yourself.
Then you need to have them
>professionally veneered or they could look
like some school kids project.

I can't agree on the cost argument. I gave an example of the cost savings in my previous post (the figures for the DIY versions included all x/over and enclosure parts).

As another example, on Krutke's site, he shows the design for one speaker, whose parts would cost about $400 with bought enclosures. It's the equivalent of a commercial system that costs $1800.

Veneering isn't easy, but even as an amateur, I've made a couple of boxes that are at least the equal of boxes in the £2000+ range that I've seen. Making the enclosures yourself really isn't that hard - MDF, a mask, a router, a saw, and lots of patience.

There are numerous DIY builders out there making speakers that rival just about anything I've seen commercially - even Sonus Faber and B&W Nautilus copies.

> Plus they are worthless once
you've built them yourself.

That is a fair point. However, if you can show your £600 speakers are basically the same as a pair of £2000 speakers, then getting £300 for them second hand gives both you and the buyer a great deal. I've never felt the need to sell mine though!

> If you look at how much engineering and
quality you'd get with Rega, Dynaudio or ProAc just to
> mention a few,
it really is not worth it.

Yes... and no. An awful lot of speakers (even up to the £1000 range) are built of thin and cheap fiberboard, with fairly low quality veneers. Even 3/4" MDF is significantly more dense, and more suitable for an enclosure (and dirt cheap too).

The more expensive units are better made, but you can replicate their work for much less cash. Remember that with a pre-built system, you're paying for all that shipping and handling of big heavy boxes (plus all the markup).

> Last but not least, you have very limited chance of auditioning your kit as fully built speaker before
> purchase.

Again, a fair point. However, places like Wilmslow are open for you to go and audition speakers before you buy.

 

[drummerman]

They (Krutke's) look good and probably sound so too though I can't comment on that.

Like I said before, some of those kits are most certainly very fine speakers but there are, generally speaking, to many unknown factors for them to be seriously considered as an alternative to commercially available finished products unless you genuinely have DIY ambitions/skills or have heard the finished article somewhere and are not to bothered about changing/upgrading for some time.

But why not.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the input guys.

I can understand why WHSV might not want to do an article on (potentially copied) DIY stuff especially when a significant amount of revenue comes from premium brands advertising.

I've heard a lot another piece of Wilmslow kit tonight although some of the units were upgraded and IMO there's a lot to be gained from sourcing this kind of stuff second hand.

After looking at some of the component specs of DIY type kit and how much they've depreciated over high street brands, I could easily get £1000 - £1500 of gear for £130 - £200 secondhand.

I wonder how these will stack up to the sound of my trusty Rogers?

I'll let you know in three weeks time.

 

[Anonymous]

This has really sparked my interest in building my own speakers, well start with a kit obviously. Just ordered a book recommended to me from amazon. What ever happened to Raypalmer's speaker clobber??

 

[Anonymous]

Brisk,

I'm glad someone else shares my enthusiasm for this kind of thing. If I was 20years older I'd probably have grown up on a diet of valve amps and have made a few by now.

Wilmslow Audio have told me that the old style mirage is comparable with many speakers in the region of £2500.

However, not knowing the componentry to any degree of expert level and how this would compare against todays market leading products, I can't see how they could compare to todays kit. I've asked them about what options I have to upgrade to some more modern and possibly higher spec units but haven't heard back yet. After all, it was only 30mins ago I sent the e-mail.

At a guess, if I (or Wilmslow) can source the most suitable units (sonically matched), it'll cost me about £500 - £600 to buy the "audiophile high-end" components for the tweeter, mid and bass (The kind that's used on commercial speaker worth £5000+). Of course, they will have to closely match the appropriate volume inside the speaker etc. On top of that, I will probably have to get new crossovers too.

There are a few boards more suited for this kind of thing but the level of activity on them is quite .... well err... dead.

I must be another dinosaur in the making.

 

[Anonymous]

drummerman - yes, certainly you do need to have some level of ambition to 'have a go' when it comes to DIY. However, I do think (and with quite a bit of experience in this) that DIY is a serious alternative to commercial. It's also worth factoring in that you could do several DIY builds for the cost of just one pair of decent commercial speakers - so you can 'upgrade' over time, and still have spent less, even if you never sell any of your previous units.

Aeroadster - if you could find ready built Wilmslow (or even Zaph Audio) kits for a good price second hand, then I'd consider them a good deal. Obviously you'd want to go and check the build quality, and possibly query the builder to ensure he followed the plans (and maybe even inspect the internals).

Also, good designs take time. I'd therefore suggest getting a current model from Wilmslow, rather than asking them to find new drivers for an older design. The Mirage used a set of Peerless drivers, and I'm not aware of which commercial speakers use them. There are plenty around using ScanSpeak, Seas and Vifa, and I'm sure there are commercial Peerless designs out there... I just don't know which ones!

£600 matching a £5000 speaker is possible, though maybe stretching it. I'm aware of £460 matching £2000, £300 matching £1000, £200 matching £900 etc. By match I'm talking about £460 of drivers, crossovers, binding posts (basically everything except the box) having the equivalent parts to a commercial unit selling for £2000.

As for boards, diyaudio.com is very good. I've got a couple of bits posted, and you should also take a look at the LGT by ShinObiWan (amongst several of his other designs).

Brisk - be careful. Speaker design is an art that takes years of practice. I've been into this subject for about 4 years, and wouldn't even consider myself to be in the same league as guys like Wilmslow or Krutke. Building a well regarded kit from a good designer is, IMHO, a great alternative to a commercial purchase. Trying to design your own from information given in books is for the serious enthusiast only - and be prepared to make a few turkeys!

 

[Anonymous]

Nice to have some encouragement. I understand that it is an art that takes years of practice, I'm still young and looking for a good starting point. I will try a kit first, the internet is swarmed with information so the books just to help me understand it. I like to know whats going on when I'm using a speaker and building a kit too, so hopefully I can grasp some of the basics. It seems like a market dominated by the US, many components are a lot easier to get hold of over their and cheaper too, I'm ready for the turkeys along the way.

 

[Anonymous]

This has really sparked my interest in building my own speakers, well start with a kit obviously. Just ordered a book recommended to me from amazon. What ever happened to Raypalmer's speaker clobber??

The project is stalled... I got a job (of all the terrible luck eh. I should have them operational after the next crack at them though. Will keep everyone posted. As for making speakers... it's easy! How do they sound once you've made them? We'll know soon...

 

[Anonymous]

Ok, so I gave in and got myself the Wilmslow Audio speakers.

I only had a chance to plug it into a system run by a Pioneer A300 but they had a big, detailed and airy sound with an full and open bass that wasn't too tight. I truly dynamic sound indeed...but different to that of the Rogers.

Off memory, in comparison with the rear ported Rogers, the Wilmslow speakers don't have the same bass weight. This is the one benefit of having the Rogers. They give me that big studio sound.

I'll have to plug it into my setup and see what the outcome is.

more later.

 

[Anonymous]

I gave the Mirage speakers a long and significant audition this morning (Monday) after bringing them home on Sunday night and realised there was something amiss. As mentioned in my previous post, I felt it lacked bass weight in comparison with the Rogers.

So I had a closer inspection through the front bass port and saw the potential culprit.

It looks like the previous owner had bought the cabinets pre-assembled and simply fitted the rest of the electronics and drive units. In doing so, he simply stuffed the wadding into the bottom part of the speaker and it was completely blocking the bass port.

I dropped a thoughtful e-mail to neil at Wilmslow explaining that I hadn't bought these new from them but wanted some advice. Within an hour, he'd explained the concept and technique behind the use of wadding and how it should be applied in the case of the Mirage from top to bottom.

So without much fuss I set about doing the basic things right.

The outcome is simply stunning. These Mirage speakers are a real audiophiles treat.

The big airy soudstage is still there and now the lower frequencies gel with with the whole ensemble, blending seamlessly to produce a fluid dynamic big sound that doesn't suffer at the lower volumes I'm used to when the girls have gone to bed. The Rogers now sound more .... well ... hmm....modest. I'm glad that it's taken a speaker of this calibre to do this.

Admittedly I've not tried many newer speaker lineups, but everyone who's listened to my LS55a's have never shown anything but praise for their great sound.

Ultimately, the biggest difference lies in the third pairing of old school Peerless 8" bass units and the way in which this has been married to the other drive units.

If I have to criticise anything about these speakers, it's how they can expose a poor source. The prime example being the difference between the Marantz CD6000 OSE and it's big sister the CD17 KI Sig Mk2 which i now have. The gulf feels enormous as the delivery of music feels slower and less detailed with the CD6000 sibling. Don't get me wrong, the CD6000 OSE is a very good player, but in this company it's weaknesses become more exposed.

I would say this is the best £100 I've spent on any set of speakers. If I had the £1400 for a new set, I'd have gladly paid £800 for them only because I'm a tight Yorkshireman. I'm not surprised the seller was desperate to sell, considering the way they were previously configured. A big thanks to Neil @ Wilmslow Audio too. He assures me I can improve the sound even more by investing around £700 on the latest Scan speak and Volt units. I'm inclined to believe him but I just don't have the money right now.

I'm a happy bunny