Dirac Live help required...FIXED

[luckylion100]

made me laugh. You're probably talking to the most untechnically minded bloke on here but I like a challenge and genuinely appreciate any offer of assistance thank you. After this I was thinkig raspberry PI for a streamer device... good help me! .-)

Just a word of warning, image graphs likely to shock unlike any other, for my room is so not ideal.

Thanks again.

 

[andyjm]

Completely off topic, and probably only of interest to me is that (I assume) rather like Tesla Motors, Dirac is named after one of the greatest minds of the 20th century, Paul Dirac.

Although his field was physics, some of his work found application in digital signal processing. Back when I could still understand this stuff, I remember having the 'Dirac Delta Function' explained to me. It is a pulse, with an infinitely thin width, infinitely tall, that has a total area of 1.

It is this theoretical pulse that is the idealised 'impulse' in a FIR (finite impulse response) filter.

Fancy stuff.

 

[insider9]

I was here merely for moral support. Even if it took all day I'm sure it will be worth in a long run.

 

[ellisdj]

Even if it took all day I'm sure it will be worth in a long run.

Unequivocally (posh word for me that)

 

[luckylion100]

This is my very first attemot at getting a measurement. I know my room really is far from ideal so I'm expecting horror story levels of feedback... but that's the point isn't it, to try to improve things.

This was taken with one sub only. The other I can't use in this temporary home, just no room. I'm moving later in the year so I'm hoping it will see some action then.

Anyway, here it is, any feedback greatly appreciated thanks.

 

[DocG]

Hi lion, just looking at the side line, if that's OK?

I see a target curve, and two average spectrum curves. Is it the result of two measurement sets, superimposed one over the other? What are we looking at?

 

[ellisdj]

I can tell you now you are going to see a massive improvement after dirac.

3 things of note there

1. decent freq reponse from 50hz to 2khz. However you have very aggressive tailing off of your treble - I get that as well.

I am guessing that means the dispersion of the AVI is not that great and your sitting off axis of the tweeter hence the rapid fall off. If you toe the speakers in more I bet the treble would go up more where you want it.

2.your bass extension isnt great - the bass is falling off rapidly from 50hz - which is your using sealed BK subs I had the same thing in my room - they are out of puff when it comes to deep bass and dont really do it. Having 2 might help that but its unlikely to do a lot there.

3. You dont want to use the dirac curve it gives you because look at what its going to try and do to your sub at 20hz.

You need to adjust that moire inline with what your subs actually doing - so put the dot on 30hz where it actually measures.

4. I dont know how much your sub is turned up but It might be an idea to turn sub up more and maybe measure again - I think you need more low end output because your bass is lean from 100hz down

5. - can you show the before and after impulse response please - Thanks

 

[insider9]

I'm also looking (though can't give as much insight as others) and can't read it. Question, at what frequency do set your crossover?

 

[luckylion100]

Hi lion, just looking at the side line, if that's OK?

I see a target curve, and two average spectrum curves. Is it the result of two measurement sets, superimposed one over the other? What are we looking at?

Hi DocG

I haven't a clue at the moment. 9 sweeps were completed, each time moving the mic into positions demanded by the Dirac program. That was the graph that Dirac provided to me straight after. I'm about the post an image of an proposed auomatically generated target curve I think... I really am clueless at the moment, sorry.

 

[luckylion100]

I'm also looking (though can't give as much insight as others) and can't read it. Question, at what frequency do set your crossover?

about 80htz.

 

[luckylion100]

 

[luckylion100]

i should have messed around with it a little befor posting again but felt as the original point of the thread was that I couldn't even get the software working properly, I felt it was only right i shared this minor success, no matter how tragic. ;-)

 

[ellisdj]

Dirac makes it look so beautiful after its done its thing - that is just an average not the full story but it doesnt matter - it works

Its also hasnt overdone the deep bass - however see how it sounds like that - see if the sub sounds like its struggling with the deep bass notes

 

[luckylion100]

I can tell you now you are going to see a massive improvement after dirac.

3 things of note there

1. decent freq reponse from 50hz to 2khz. However you have very aggressive tailing off of your treble - I get that as well.

I am guessing that means the dispersion of the AVI is not that great and your sitting off axis of the tweeter hence the rapid fall off. If you toe the speakers in more I bet the treble would go up more where you want it.

2.your bass extension isnt great - the bass is falling off rapidly from 50hz - which is your using sealed BK subs I had the same thing in my room - they are out of puff when it comes to deep bass and dont really do it. Having 2 might help that but its unlikely to do a lot there.

3. You dont want to use the dirac curve it gives you because look at what its going to try and do to your sub at 20hz.

You need to adjust that moire inline with what your subs actually doing - so put the dot on 30hz where it actually measures.

4. I dont know how much your sub is turned up but It might be an idea to turn sub up more and maybe measure again - I think you need more low end output because your bass is lean from 100hz down

5. - can you show the before and after impulse response please - Thanks

But on first glance much of what you state seems to apply. I thought about toes in after getting the Oppo, before I felt i didn't need it . Please forgive me for not replying further now as I'm going to log off for a while, then sit down and read your observations over a well deserved cuppa. Seriosuly thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed reply. probably much is way over my head but I'm trying to learn, fast.

thanks.

 

[luckylion100]

i've just saved that 'curve' and loaded it. As long as I play from PC direct to Oppo by usb/dac I am assuming I will hear all alterations?

Just played Deep Durple - Fire ball Flac 96kHz and sounds rather good but is that my expectation bias, perhaps the changes havent been applied...

 

[ellisdj]

Dirac looks like its done a great job - however I am of the thinking the least it has to do the better.

You also need to check the overall level of dirac - it will be set to -8.0db

Open up the Dirac Audio Processor - there is an arrow to the left of the boxs where you select your filter set.

That opens up some other opitions - you want to raise the level until you get clipping then back it off until there is no or minimal clipping.

Well done and dont panic if you need the volume knob a lit higher than usual that is to be expected.

Feedback on the performance please for others - I am already a convert

 

[insider9]

What?! That's a huge difference... For once you justify your nick

 

[luckylion100]

feel like I'm seriously multi-tasking, coffee in hand, foobar pumping out some NWA, neighbour banging on floor from ceiling below. The sub had to check it's doing it's stuff, boy was it!! Really intergrated better.

Found the second part of the software and loaded the generated filter, that's all working well,

Listen I don't want to sing this things praises overly at the moment, but if this isn't any kind of expectation bias, this is for real. Already without any physical changes to the system, re positioning etc, which I had planned on doing anyway for the sake of experimentation, my system (even with non- excellent) speakers sounds great.

I think I'm already sold and want this loaded onto my minidsp2x4hd. Now I'm confused as to where to locate that in the chain but that's another matter.

Right,now I just want to play music!! ;-)

I remember Gazzip's initial reaction. I thought his system is so good, can it really make such a big difference, now I'm tending to believe based on what I'm hearing here.

I've found the optons you mention Ellisdj and will look at those later in my more depth...

Now where's my credit card?!

 

[luckylion100]

the Heritage Orchestra sounds unreal! I want to move away from people, so I can enjoy my music loud!

Very excited, I actually thought this could be a slight case of snake oil but judging from what I'm hearing it's not. It;s tighter, faster, more impactful, even clarity is improved. I honestly thought my speakers were maxed out, there's more to give so the same will apply to others.

I'm useless at describing sound but my smile says it all. I need to learn what's in the package and how it works properly but I've not been this excited, probably since I got my new Technics.

Ellisdj, impulse graphs, where do I find them, I'm assuming on the calibration side of the software?

Btw I think all your comments are bang on, amazing just by looking at a graph, you know your stuff, so thank you, and Gazzip for bringing this topic up. Sh*t, I sound like I'm sucking up, not my style... ;-)

 

[ellisdj]

Lion mate i have been using these tools for years but dirac actually works with no negative effects I have experienced so far unlike every other system I have heard pretty much.

However its not a magic wand it just sorts out what you have.

To me its the ultimate system tweak but doesnt replace all other tweaks far from it.

 

[luckylion100]

Lion mate i have been using these tools for years but dirac actually works with no negative effects I have experienced so far unlike every other system I have heard pretty much.

However its not a magic wand it just sorts out what you have.

To me its the ultimate system tweak but doesnt replace all other tweaks far from it.

If the changes today were the sum total of what I could expect and no more, no matter how much I enjoyed it i doubt I would purchase. I sort of did it arse about face really, purchasing the Minidsp first but it had to come piece by piece due to covering the cost over time. I've just added the Oppo after all. However I can tell there so much more to get from this Dirac system. Already I'm considering speaker positioning, where the sub/s go for the best performance. I want to measure again and try different filters.

Oh yes sub volume has always been low, due to respect for neighbours below but also it worked that way. I read a lot on AVI forum it was best to have them so you could barely hear them unless up close. And tbh this worked well.

And the big question for me is, if like at present I'm only using the one sub would the Minidsp be best employed before the Oppo in the component chain? I was thinking it must come after as it has 4 rca outs, two for stereo left and right, leaving the remaining two for the subs... As was previously pointed out after the Oppo I could loose the benefit of the Oppo's Dac...

Blimey I went active so I didn't have to tinkeranymore but for with my vinyl... ;-)

I'd say to anyone with a pc, download the trial version and give it a shot, it could be a revelation. Nothing to loose.

 

[shadders]

Lion mate i have been using these tools for years but dirac actually works with no negative effects I have experienced so far unlike every other system I have heard pretty much.

However its not a magic wand it just sorts out what you have.

To me its the ultimate system tweak but doesnt replace all other tweaks far from it.

If the changes today were the sum total of what I could expect and no more, no matter how much I enjoyed it i doubt I would purchase. I sort of did it arse about face really, purchasing the Minidsp first but it had to come piece by piece due to covering the cost over time. I've just added the Oppo after all. However I can tell there so much more to get from this Dirac system. Already I'm considering speaker positioning, where the sub/s go for the best performance. I want to measure again and try different filters.

Oh yes sub volume has always been low, due to respect for neighbours below but also it worked that way. I read a lot on AVI forum it was best to have them so you could barely hear them unless up close. And tbh this worked well.

And the big question for me is, if like at present I'm only using the one sub would the Minidsp be best employed before the Oppo in the component chain? I was thinking it must come after as it has 4 rca outs, two for stereo left and right, leaving the remaining two for the subs... As was previously pointed out after the Oppo I could loose the benefit of the Oppo's Dac...

Blimey I went active so I didn't have to tinkeranymore but for with my vinyl... ;-)

I'd say to anyone with a pc, download the trial version and give it a shot, it could be a revelation. Nothing to loose.

Hi,

I think what you are doing is a good idea - correcting the defficiency of the speakers and room. It is all based on engineering science.

To put it into laymans terms - you are really mangling your signal to achieve the flat response. But it sounds better to your ears.

Here is the contentious bit - not to cause an argument - just an observation.

A cable makes NO change to the signal apart from reducing the volume (insignificantly), exactly the same reduction at ALL frequencies. There is NO signal mangling at all.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[luckylion100]

Forgive my ignorance because currently I'm off work drugged up to the eye balls on pain killers and other meds but I don't follow your statement quoted below. I'm assuming I'm missing something really obvious here.

"A cable makes NO change to the signal apart from reducing the volume (insignificantly), exactly the same reduction at ALL frequencies. There is NO signal mangling at all."

Are we talking cables?

Edit ; Are you a cable fan now and you think that room eq is a non science?

This topic needs to be discussed with others better qualifed, perhaps Ellisdj would care to step in... ;-)

 

[luckylion100]

within the Hi-fi realm I know that tone controls make a difference, old school graphic equalisers the same, EQ systems like those employed on the recent Yamaha WXC-50 made a big difference. I see no reason why this wouldn't, to me it's just the next step up the ladder.

Well i've said enough today on this... starting to feel like I'm talking to myself and it's not the medication. ;-)

 

[shadders]

Forgive my ignorance because currently I'm off work drugged up to the eye balls on pain killers and other meds but I don't follow your statement quoted below. I'm assuming I'm missing something really obvious here.

"A cable makes NO change to the signal apart from reducing the volume (insignificantly), exactly the same reduction at ALL frequencies. There is NO signal mangling at all."

Are we talking cables?

Hi Luckylion,

Yes - it was just an observation. You indicated that the DSP may be snake oil - but it is not - there is a vast amount of engineering science or maths that needs to be understood for the software to achieve the results it does.

For a cable - nothing at all - it is a bit of wire.

For me - it is understandable, and also bemusing that people consider both the Dirac and cables in the same manner with regards to potential impact on sound. Just an observation.

Regards,

Shadders.